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Greg Dixon
New member
Wow, so you guys are still accusing Chance of lying. Incredible!
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Wow, so you guys are still accusing Chance of lying. Incredible!
Madguitrst
Member
It's not difficult to find the "base price" on these items, if you are willing to put in just a little of your time.
As someone who was seriously close to pulling the trigger on being another company importing/modding/reseliing these items (mics mostly- but I did have discussions about preamps, compressors, EQs too), I know exactly what the cost is.
Could Chance have made a few dollars. Yes, but not nearly enough to make it worth the trouble, not nearly enough for it to be a business venture. The logistics alone of this are a bit staggering for a small company, never mind a guy and a few friends/volunteers.
Personally, I would NEVER do what he has done.....and I consider myself a pretty generous person
. All you have to do is look at any of the other small group of successful resellers - they aren't selling at the same price point. QC, warranties, etc all cost. If you want that you have to pay for it - simple as that. I'd venture to say that you don't work for free, although you've probably helped people out and done some good deeds in your life.It's a shame the preamps have been such a big problem.
Some more time should have probably been taken, with a few select, knowledgeable members made advisers and sent test units (hey, couldn't we have all ponied up an extra $10 to cover their time?). But I purchased mics from the first group buy and they are still here working beautifully, so I know this *business* model can work.
I bought 4 preamps this time around, and honestly, I sold them. Not because they were a bad value, but because I have been so busy I didn't even turn one on - I only opened one of the boxes. I lost some money due to shipping, processing (on the buying end), and PayPal fees (on the selling end), but that's the way it goes sometimes. Hey, the next week I bought a musical instrument for $600 and sold it for $875 four days later (and it was worth at least $950-so we both make out). It's part of the ebb and flow.
Again, it's a shame that this has gone this way.
But everyone has a choice - you could buy Chameleon Labs for 3x the price and have assurance (I did when they first came out) or take your chances on getting a great deal but sharing in the risk (I did that too, on two occasions).
There is no reward without risk.
ausrock
Well-known member
Greg,
While maybe not completely accurate, it's not beyond comprehension if one takes the considerable time to read the various forums with a completely open mind since this particular GB began
MichaelJoly
Banned
Good point. In fact, before this particular group buy came together there was a pro-bono advisory group created by Chance. Forgive me for forgetting the user names of two members (a lawyer and database / web guru) but Chance contacted me and Dave Thomas to help design equipment then structure and manage the next group buy.
Two of us set up a Yahoo! Groups site, ran polls, moderated discussion, reported back to Chance etc. Back stage there was an initial flurry of email between Chance, Dave Thomas, myself, the lawyer and the database guy about business structures, equipment design and logistical execution. Alternative buying practices in pro audio had been an interest of mine ever since the earliest group buys surfaced quite a few years ago so I was excited to volunteer to help put into practice some of my theoretical musings.
Long story (several months of work) made short - Chance dropped out of sight, didn't respond to my emails and then launched his TnC venture without the involvement of the early-stage advisors he made contact with.
Its interesting to see how the universe responds to actions taken, or not taken.
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crazydoc
Master Baiter
Call me crazy, but chance and I come from a generation where this behavior is not all that unusual.
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
i never said chance was lying..im not sure I even know his side of the story..im just saying its highly doubtful he is doing this for free and out of the goodness of his own heart..
crazydoc,
would you take on the next group buy for free, zero profit?
crazydoc,
would you take on the next group buy for free, zero profit?
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Gilliland
New member
Chance posted "his side of the story", or at least a portion of it, in this very thread just yesterday. So just go back one page and read it for yourself.
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chance
Well-known member
Do the math. What I make on this is not monetary measured with a dollar $ign.
crazydoc
Master Baiter
No, I wouldn't even do it for profit.
As Chance (and Harvey) have said, there are more rewards in life than monetary ones.
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chris carter
New member
Chance is definitely NOT making a profit. In the future, perhaps, he could turn his user base into promotion for a for-profit gear company. But this group buy he is definitely not making any profit.
Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
whats it measured with?
noisedude
New member
Endless spin, half truths and misdirection. What is 'incredible' is that the pretense continues.
MichaelJoly
Banned
Advisory Board - Missed Opportunity
Many of you many find Steve Hogan's posts in Prodigy Pro's The Lab informative. Steve is an ex-VP at Jensen transformers and has a lot to say about the quality of the transformers used in TnC products. Very detailed analysis. Also note how up front he is about the ethical quandry he faces offering to fix TnC problems.
Steve's input is the type of professional guidance that would have been a benefit to this group buy. The same can be said for every other aspect of this group buy - design, QC review, order fulfillment, shipping you name it. This community is large enough there must be at least one person who has professional expertise in each of these areas who could have brought their skills to the table had an advisory board been in place.
Many of you many find Steve Hogan's posts in Prodigy Pro's The Lab informative. Steve is an ex-VP at Jensen transformers and has a lot to say about the quality of the transformers used in TnC products. Very detailed analysis. Also note how up front he is about the ethical quandry he faces offering to fix TnC problems.
Steve's input is the type of professional guidance that would have been a benefit to this group buy. The same can be said for every other aspect of this group buy - design, QC review, order fulfillment, shipping you name it. This community is large enough there must be at least one person who has professional expertise in each of these areas who could have brought their skills to the table had an advisory board been in place.
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Gidge
Lapdance Test Dummy
he's doing this for free out of the kindness of his heart..whay would he need a lawyer?..
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okgb
New member
Let's not say anyone lied , but [ sin of omission ? ]
I don't get the feeling of total honesty
and upfrontness from anyone CP to AH
whether be their intentions or perceptions
I don't get the feeling of total honesty
and upfrontness from anyone CP to AH
whether be their intentions or perceptions
antichef
pornk rock
FWIW, I made out like a bandit with GB stuff (both this time and last time), and I couldn't be happier with it - thanks again Chance!!
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ittam
New member
Oh, calm down, please 
Matti
Matti
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zorf
New member
you know in a way, it all boils down to the assembly cost.
the parts would be more or less the same if you bought them yourself.
So we are basically just leveraging the difference in pay scale for workers.
In China it's $2 to $3 per day at least as of a couple of years ago.
That, and there is no extra charge for returns, advertising, insurance,
or profit.
the parts would be more or less the same if you bought them yourself.
So we are basically just leveraging the difference in pay scale for workers.
In China it's $2 to $3 per day at least as of a couple of years ago.
That, and there is no extra charge for returns, advertising, insurance,
or profit.
ausrock
Well-known member
Right from the start the "hype" about the pres (from Chance) was nothing short of positive..............he and his tech were "responsible" for the circuit the pres were alllegedly based on, the samples they heard from NAMM were fantastic, blah, blah, blah............and we all bought into the supposed "Nevesque" hype
Then in various stages came the "news" that the GB pres had 1)already been turned down by PMI, and 2) that PMI's designer in the UK had had to "re-work" sections of the pre's circuitry to make it useable..............something the manufacturers obviously chose to ignore.
The insults and abuse directed towards Alan Hyatt/PMI over this revelation, was to say the least, even at the time, unnecessary..............the fact that time seems to have validated much, if not all of what he claimed, seems to have been (conveniently), largely ignored by those responsible for the insults and abuse, does nothing to minimise what occurred. Additional to that was the opportunity, back at the time, that was offered to the GB organiser to resolve these issues..............an offer that was conveniently ignored!!!
So now we're left with..............
1) a bunch of pre's that regardless of the original "hype", are to varying degrees, are unuseable.
2) a warranty that isn't worth the paper it's written on.
3) GB organisers who to all intents and purposes, appear to have gone into a state of denial, relying on the DIY community to dig them out of a hole.
4) The main GB organiser who for most of the GB period, has consistently ignored (important) questions from GB members while at the same time posting the occasional inane offering about how busy he claims to be
................and now we're expected to get excited about the possiblilty of a 4th GB
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drBill
New member
LOL Back at it I see, eh??
Thanks for the tip.
I'm using my unuseable TNC pre's alongside my API's, Shadow Hills, Purple's and D&R's - E V E R Y D A Y, thank you. And quite often they get the nod over any of the other pre's I have. And they are broken according to you. Hmmm Go figure. Sometimes -- gasp -- I even use the EQ, but don't tell anyone.
Maybe I'd better make an appointment with my audiologist.
bp
PS - Tell alan "hi" from all of us.....
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