Group Buy Interest?

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noisedude said:
Nobody would ever do all of that without getting paid, and that includes the group buys that have already happened.
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OH MY GOD! WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?!?!

Heh. And speaking of muck-raking, did you guys know that there's a hospital in Guangzhou, China, dedicated to treating people who's health is damaged by working in Chinese factories? It's literally called, The Occupational Disease and Prevention Hospital.

Most of the people in the hospital are in their 20's to 40's and are dying from occupational carcinogens.

"China has more deaths per capita from work-related illnesses each year than any other country, according to the ILO. In 2005, the most recent year for which data are available, 386,645 Chinese workers died of occupational illnesses, according to Chinese government data compiled by the ILO and cited in the July 14, 2006, Journal of Epidemiology. Millions more live with fatal diseases caused by factory work, other epidemiologists estimated in the article.

http://extras.sltrib.com/china/
 
nuemes said:
Well, call me crazy, but I personally have an issue with the lack of transparency that came to light after I paid for my pre's.

Please find room in your heart for those of us who wanted to know what they were buying and are interested in getting to the bottom of it.

Think of it as an adventure rather than an annoyance :D
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Hey man, I'm all for getting to the bottom of it. But without all the negativity I've been seeing here and at GS.

Seeing as I'm hoping there is another group buy down the road, I'd love to see all the issues get fixed... but of course it's going to take time.
 
noisedude said:
So you're advocating a model where hundreds or thousands of strangers club together anonymously to make one order from a factory who knows they have neither the buying power nor the unanimity to do anything more than take a gamble on whether the equipment they purchase will work or not?
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"advocating" and "model" are both a little strong - more like I'm speculating about a fuzzy concept [that vaguely resembles a progression from what we've just done for the third or fourth time with Chance]

noisedude said:
And no-one will be facilitating it properly, because the prices per container will come direct from the factory and the masses and/or their ecommerce software will divvy the kit up amongst themselves when it arrives?

Have you ever unloaded a container? Who is going to house those pallets of stuff, break them up and individually ship them?
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I was musing about stripping away everything that retail services supplies, *except* for the shipping/distribution, and later the financial facilitation - these would be compensated.

noisedude said:
I don't think the model works, we demand better for our money and equipment is hardly expensive nowadays.
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speak for yourself :D

noisedude said:
In fact, if I was in a bad mood I might suggest that the pipe in question is not a 'dream' one but something else .... Good luck with it though, if you choose to try and make it happen.
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if I gave you the idea that *I* was going to try to make it happen, I apologize :), and I'm glad you're in a good mood.

Anyway - I'm signing off of this thread-within-a-thread - whale away, pardners, I am far beyond yer reach :D
 
antichef said:
"advocating" and "model" are both a little strong - more like I'm speculating about a fuzzy concept [that vaguely resembles a progression from what we've just done for the third or fourth time with Chance]

I was musing about stripping away everything that retail services supplies, *except* for the shipping/distribution, and later the financial facilitation - these would be compensated.

speak for yourself :D

if I gave you the idea that *I* was going to try to make it happen, I apologize :), and I'm glad you're in a good mood.

Anyway - I'm signing off of this thread-within-a-thread - whale away, pardners, I am far beyond yer reach :D
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No worries. The ex-retailer in me just went "what? That will never work" and it overpowered the occasional musician in me.

One point though - compare the cost of making quality multi-track recordings now to even ten years ago, and tell me again that we're overpaying for our gear. We really have never had it so good.
 
Looks like Alan's back at GS, and he raised a novel and interesting point--I had thought about it before, but I am not very knowledgeable about testing so I didn't say anything:

The other issue is are these units certified by any testing facility? I doubt it, but if any problem comes from this where someone is injured, a major lawsuit will happen. Here you have people opening up these units who are not qualified to do so in order to repair them, or install the correct components. Had the seller opened these in the first place, or looked at any production samples, they would have found the problems before production began. People risk shock and possible other injury or damage if any modifications are not done correctly.
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I'd be less worried about a lawsuit (cause I'm judgment proof :D) than an insurance claim myself . . . there was a thread recently on PSW about a studio fire started by a defective powerstrip :( I think the risk of shock is probably overstated, but at a minimum, make sure your unit has the safety ground wire firmly attached to chassis before you plug it in, and if you don't know what you are doing, please don't attempt repairs yourself. Crazydoc's half-connected power has me a bit worried about y'all . . .
 
So were the schematics for the 84 (or any of these) ever posted? I don't remember seeing them anywhere.
 
bryantx512 said:
So were the schematics for the 84 (or any of these) ever posted? I don't remember seeing them anywhere.
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No, but let me look -- the power transformer goes to the big filter capacitor, which goes to the antichef which -pop- . . .
 
How can TnC be made responsible for someone screwing up a mod, when there are companies like Paia and Seventh Circle that base their entire company on having the customer do the electronic work?

Sounds like bullshit to me.
 
markitzero said:
How can TnC be made responsible for someone screwing up a mod, when there are companies like Paia and Seventh Circle that base their entire company on having the customer do the electronic work?

Sounds like bullshit to me.
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Yeah, once you open up the box, you're likely on your own when it comes to product liablity. *If* the units were hazardous on their own without being open and messed with, then that might be different, but that sounds purty far fetched.

[back to tracing.. -zap-]
 
antichef said:
Yeah, once you open up the box, you're likely on your own when it comes to product liablity. *If* the units were hazardous on their own without being open and messed with, then that might be different, but that sounds purty far fetched.

[back to tracing.. -zap-]
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I guarantee you Digidesign wouldn't have been sending out replacement power harnesses to anyone with a bad Digi 002 if they were going to be liable for some moron electrocuting himself.

Not to mention, I seem to recall Alan Hyatt himself suggesting mods for Toft ATBs at least once or twice.
 
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antichef said:
Yeah, once you open up the box, you're likely on your own when it comes to product liablity. *If* the units were hazardous on their own without being open and messed with, then that might be different, but that sounds purty far fetched.

[back to tracing.. -zap-]
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Not an attorney, etc., but products liability is a difficult area of law for a manufacturer. The answer to how Paia et al. base their business on kits is insurance.

It is almost universal (in the US, anyway) that products that plug into AC mains are UL listed. As I understand it, there no law that requires it, but between the customer's insurance and the manufacturer's insurance, someone is going to mandate it.

PS low-voltage filter caps will piss you off, but they are unlikely to kill you.
 
Hmmm...more on my product testing:

I must have missed it, but the idea that you need to push the "line/mic" thingy in (to the "line" position) along with pushing the DI button in order to get the DI signal to register within the unit is a bit interesting. It took me some time to figure that one out as it is not mentioned in the manual at all. Not intuitive in the least.

Oh well - as a bass DI, the 73 does a very nice job delivering a nice, full tone. However, there is very little headroom for this purpose. With a bass possessing very high output pickups, I still had the gain maxed and the output trim 75% up in order to get to a theoretical 0db input into the DAW (Reaper). Obviously I was targeting -16 to -18db on the meters. The resultant recordings were fine, but I would have liked more headroom at the preamp stage of things. I'll have to try guitar when I get back in April, as I'm a bit worried about a guitar with passive pickups being able to use the DI input on the 73.

Again, nice tone once recorded; however, headroom a bit lacking. Gotta ask it again - anyone know the logic behind needing to push in the "line/mic" button as well as select the "DI" button in order to get the DI to pass signal?

Jay
 
mshilarious said:
Looks like Alan's back at GS, and he raised a novel and interesting point--I had thought about it before, but I am not very knowledgeable about testing so I didn't say anything:

AH - "The other issue is are these units certified by any testing facility? I doubt it, but if any problem comes from this where someone is injured, a major lawsuit will happen. Here you have people opening up these units who are not qualified to do so in order to repair them, or install the correct components. Had the seller opened these in the first place, or looked at any production samples, they would have found the problems before production began. People risk shock and possible other injury or damage if any modifications are not done correctly."
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I raised this issue with Chance months ago and he assured me they woud be certified. Hummm....

:D
 
P. Glaser said:
I raised this issue with Chance months ago and he assured me they woud be certified. Hummm....

:D
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There's no UL sticker or stamp on the unit, but it does say Caution-risk of electric shock-do not open.
So in theory they're covered if you get hurt/electrocuted by opening it up. But that brings to mind the supposedly successful lawsuits by the guy that cut off his foot using his lawn mower as a hedge trimmer, or the guy who fell through the skylight and broke his back while breaking and entering a school through the roof. :D
 
vicenzajay said:
With a bass possessing very high output pickups, I still had the gain maxed and the output trim 75% up in order to get to a theoretical 0db input into the DAW (Reaper). Obviously I was targeting -16 to -18db on the meters. The resultant recordings were fine, but I would have liked more headroom at the preamp stage of things.
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You will loose headroom when you turn down the output like you did.
If you want max headroom (lol I just had a flashback of a the dude from the 80's)
92.gif

OK , where was I? Ah yes max headroom, turn the output all the way up and turn the gain down.
Think of the "output" knob as a passive fader. It will allow you to crank the input for more saturation if you need it. But at the expense of higher noise, possible clipping, low output, etc. Kind of like a guitar amps "gain" and "master" knobs.
Generally, leave the output all the way up unless you want to use the pre as an effect.
Now, if after doing that you still have issues, you might have to use a direct box, or if you have low impedance high output pickups, try the line input or an external DI. The pre itself has quite a lot of headroom if you're using proper levels. Active pickups may be too high of an input level for the DI to handle. There is a difference between gain staging and headroom.
 
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