Group Buy Interest?

[retro1]

Agreed. I'm with you on that!!

This is a "forum", and should be open to discussion though.

Of course.

But we know group buys have been cancelled in the past when there is pressure from other importers/distributors on the chinese manufacturers.

If Chance has an agreement with the manufacturer not to discuss their arrangement, etc, then obviously a good way for someone to screw with the group buy, would be to try and force public disclosure, by bending the truth just enough to stir things up.
Not that a distributor would ever have motivation to do something like that.
Clearly U.S. importers/distributors love group buys.

There's nothing to support that suggestion, but as long as the possibility is there, one needs to be wary.

 

[JTC111]

My guess in all of this was some of you would be pissed off. I really don't care if you are. I have stated that Chance provides a good service and he should make money for it. I have no motive to sell anything here which I thought was not allowed on public forums as that is SPAM, but if you can do it under the Group Buy label, great.

Man, I had a feeling from your first post on this that you were just here to be a twat. Now I'm convinced.

All I am doing is telling you guys the truth. If you read back, Chance has said the transformers are from the USA, then they were not from China but 797 Audio could not tell them where it was from because it is confidential and then that he designed the mic amp and made some other changes so the factory could not begin production....All not true.

So let's try to follow this bit of twatage... first you don't care who you piss off, next you tell us Chance is offering a good service, then you tell us Chance lied about the transformers being from the USA ...twatage the likes of which is rarely seen.

To set the record straight, Chance was speculating as to where the transformers might be getting outsourced based upon something he inferred from a conversation with the manufacturer. I don't recall a post where he gave a definitive answer and in a recent post he came back around saying he believed the transformers were actually going to be Chinese-made, albeit from a different manufacturer.

So you called Chance a liar by telling a lie. Transparent twatage of monumental proportions!

And who the fuck asked you to come here and give your version of the truth? I love getting "the truth" from a goddamned liar. Assuming you didn't sign up and buy anything in this GB, I have no idea why you're here trying piss on the parade. This is none of your business. And don't try to resell that line of bullshit about wanting to get the truth out. Your credibility in that area is already shot because of the twatage you've already been caught in. Did I mention what a twat you are?

Somewhere in this world the front end of a horse must be running around.

 

[wreckd504]

Alan said PMI had "passed" on the 797 pres in the past, he didn't say that there was anything wrong with them, the implication was that they just weren't something PMI was interested in.

... with the help of the tech that services my board, took the design of these pres, and reworked and fitted the design into an existing enclosure. We sent it to China for their engineers to study. They built a prototype and sent it back to me. We tested it and made some changes and sent it back.

That says to me this pre has never been sold or heard by anyone before. How could alan have passed on a pre that hadn't been created?

 

[thajeremy]

That says to me this pre has never been sold or heard by anyone before. How could alan have passed on a pre that hadn't been created?

I think we are all still waiting on Chance's response to this.....we are all aware of the accusations, but at this point, chance has not said anything about this....

 

[chris carter]

I think that given the accusation, and given that it came from someone who despite questionable motives is obviously in a position to possibly know what he's talking about, Chance should take it upon himself to prove him wrong with the smackdown of all holy smackdowns.

I should think that it would be extremely easy for Chance to prove that he's not making misrepresentations about the pres. That they are in fact new designs initiated by him with schematics from his M.I.A. Neve tech. But I also understand that Chance may have very real reasons for not wanting to post such evidence publicly as we all know we have to be sensitive with what we post so as to not piss off the manufacturer and risk our GBs. BUT!!!! I think it's perfectly reasonable for Chance to attach that evidence to a bulk e-mail so we all get it, and he can put this mumbo-jumbo to rest, without having to do it publicly. As Chance has said numerous times before, this is 'our' group buy, not his (or so he has implied). As such, I think we deserve to be shown that we haven't been misled about these pres.

One thing I might add, is that based on the $$$ Alan has mentioned it does in fact appear that after shipping/duties/etc. there is little or no profit for Chance. So at minimum Alan has proven Chance to be honest about one of the major considerations. I would think that if Chance were going to lie about anything, it would be the cost/profit so he could stack some bills - and based on what Alan has said, that doesn't seem to be the case at all... which makes me wonder why Chance would lie about stuff that wouldn't seem to benefit him.

I might also add that if this pre has been around as long as Alan implies it has, then I would suspect that I'd be able to find some brand selling them somewhere on the web with a search, or perhaps I'm grossly misunderstanding him. If it's really more recent, then perhaps the manufacturer is just pawning off Chance's pres as their own design (wouldn't shock me). Going way back, Chance DID say in the very beginning that he'd been working on these pres for well over a year.

That all said, nothing Alan has said, if it is true and if I'd known it before placing my order, would have changed my order. I still would have made the exact same order.

 

[ausrock]

Hmmmmm...........OK a little verbal dribble...........



There was a time when we didn't have the range of cheaper mics/gear available, a time when forums such as HR were in their infancy and as a result it was a time when we were relatively uneducated in regard to manufacturers, their products, etc., etc. It was a time when some companies/individuals saw an opportunity to start sourcing from China..........

Rode were probably one of the first to make a success of marketing a Chinese made product while deliberately avoiding telling people or misleading the marketplace as to the origin of the mics they were selling......selling at obscene levels of profit. They were that successful that they almost made an art form out of it and were able to build the business to it's current levels based on those deceptions. Even in more recent times trying to discuss this issue with Rode was akin to pulling teeth.

Others followed Rodes' example...........one (there were more), from Europe that was marketing mics, alledgedly had a manufacturing plant and other infrastucture in Europe and his US distributor happened to be PMI/Alan Hyatt. As time went by, PMI started asking more questions of the "manufacturer" which were usually avoided or deflected, finally PMI were told the truth......there was no European facility, the mics were coming from China, it was all a deception and PMI had been distributing mics which they genuinely believed were made in Europe.

It was from this background that the Studio Projects line emerged and from the very first, Alan made a point of never hiding the origin of his products even going so far as having "797 Audio" printed on the mics. Also from this background is Alan's habit of jumping in at times when he's seen other individuals appearing to deliberately make claims about gear that from his experience Alan either knows or suspects to be untrue or incorrect................this habit would appear to stem from Alan having once been "burnt" himself and his desire to not see it happen to others..............no, he's not perfect BUT he's also not what some of you seem to be thinking either, in his own words from way back he's a "brash NY'er".

As an aside...........along with Studio Projects, we saw the emergence of a number of other "new" companies, amongst them.......MXL, who didn't overly advertise their Chinese connection but didn't hide it either....... ADK, originally, conveniently marketed as AudioDeutschKraft(sp), a name they abreviated and ultimately dropped as people became more aware of their Chinese connection...........there's others and there'll continue to be more, some who will be up front and honest and some who will not.


Unfortunately, I see a few people getting hot under the collar, making assumptions and starting to talk out of their arse. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this issue, doesn't mean that your opinion happens to be right.

 

[antichef]

I'm going to save my stress molecules for when the equipment is on the boat going across the Pacific.

But there's one thing that's apparent from everything we're hearing, and that is that Chance *isn't* making any money off this, and it's a non-commercial exercise. Not that I ever had any doubt - it's just interesting to see it confirmed in another overwhelmingly convincing way. I'm stupidly happy with the mics from the last GB, and I'm going to be happy with the pres from this one.

Back to waiting...

 

[drBill]

But we know group buys have been cancelled in the past when there is pressure from other importers/distributors on the chinese manufacturers.

Agreed. That's why we have the news section of the website that only buyers can access and that's why we have the mass emails.

 

[JTC111]

As Chance has said numerous times before, this is 'our' group buy, not his (or so he has implied). As such, I think we deserve to be shown that we haven't been misled about these pres.

Is that how it works? Chance has to defend himself against every specious accusation that comes along? Obviously Chance can do what he wants, but I think that's a load of crap. It's a bad precedent to set and in this case especially so considering the obvious motives he might have for causing this stir.

Maybe we should all start making accusation against anyone we want in this thread? Wouldn't that be nice?

 

[JTC111]

in his own words from way back he's a "brash NY'er".

Yeah, so am I. But 'brash' and 'bullshit' are two different smells. Your friend isn't brash.

Unfortunately, I see a few people getting hot under the collar, making assumptions and starting to talk out of their arse. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this issue, doesn't mean that your opinion happens to be right.

Does that guy have a picture of you getting naked with your sister or something? You neatly sidestep his inconsistencies and accuse others of talking out their arse. How convenient.

 

[ittam]

If Chance said early he´s been working these pre´s over a year and
Alan has been aware of them some 10 months there is no conflict
in that sence...

Matti

 

[JTC111]

I know I must be impressing some of you with my diplomatic skills

 

[wreckd504]

I never knew any of that stuff ausrock...where do you get all this stuff!? Are you in the manufacturing/distro biz?


The questions remains

we are all aware of the accusations, but at this point, chance has not said anything about this....

Ausrock, You've got a lot of knowledge from what i've read in your previous posts, even if you are down the f3 So i'm confused now...There is a lot of conflicting things being said and the people saying them have a lot of credibility. Whilst I think Alan comes across as arrogant, he doesn't seem to mince his words which I like, but you can't post those sort of allegations with no proof. Could you post up those pics?


I would still have ordered the pres. So long as we stay civil, I don't see anything wrong with this being played out on a public forum (obviously except for the confidential business arrangments), it shows transparency. But I don't think who designed the pre should be kept a secret, or not mentioned on a public forum.

 

[KJI]

I can assure you the transformers are Chinese. We passed on these units some time ago, but I am sure you will do well with them.

Just curious, but how long ago was it that you "passed" on them? Are you sure these are the same units?

All I am doing is telling you guys the truth. If you read back, Chance has said the transformers are from the USA, then they were not from China but 797 Audio could not tell them where it was from because it is confidential and then that he designed the mic amp and made some other changes so the factory could not begin production....All not true.

Actually, when he said they might be from the USA he was just speculating. It was also speculated that they might come from a company that had worse quality.

Is it possible that the Chinese are passing off Chance's design as their own? Or plan on marketing it to other vendors?

I thought that was the plan all along. I could've sworn I read here that these items obviously wouldn't be a GB exclusive, but that we would just be some of the first to get our hands on them. (And cheaply.)

There's way too many possibilities here, but because I believe both Chance and Alan, I think it's most likely that Chance waived all/any rights to any suggestions, reworkings, or any redesigning he did. That way he probably couldn't say much, and of course the company would say otherwise.

Then again, there might have just been a communication error somewhere.

 

[retro1]

I know I must be impressing some of you with my diplomatic skills

It's almost as if you're angry or something.

I like Matti's glass half full sunny disposition too.

 

[JTC111]

It's almost as if you're angry or something.

I like Matti's glass half full sunny disposition too.

Me angry??? Not a chance. Now excuse me while I pull my foot out of that guy's ass.

 

[drBill]

JTC111 - you're cracking me up dude!!!

 

[chris carter]

Is that how it works? Chance has to defend himself against every specious accusation that comes along? Obviously Chance can do what he wants, but I think that's a load of crap. It's a bad precedent to set and in this case especially so considering the obvious motives he might have for causing this stir.

Maybe we should all start making accusation against anyone we want in this thread? Wouldn't that be nice?

JTC111, please don't take my comments out of context. Given the context I put them in I am rather clearly not saying what you suggest I am saying.

This thing has gotten a lot of people so heated as to almost become reactionary... and potentially attacking people who are actually on their side. People need to chill out a little and think before they type so as not to blow things up bigger than they already are. That really goes for everyone.

 

[JTC111]

JTC111 - you're cracking me up dude!!!

Us brash NYers (Brooklyn born and raised) are all born with a good sense of humor. I'm a fucking riot!

 

[wreckd504]

The next time you buy something I should just let you get told what you all want to hear...misrepresentations or not. I will post the photos for those that asked, but post no further replies as it seems you are happier to be mislead than to know the truth....

You can't just swoop in, make these allegations, and expect no-one to ask for proof? Its not that we are happier to be misled, we're clarifying what you are saying. Were you going to post photos?