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wreckd504
New member
Are these off the shelf pieces or ones you designed based on pres from your desk?
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Are these off the shelf pieces or ones you designed based on pres from your desk?
D
drBill
New member
Chance said:
I thought I mentioned this before, but maybe it's worth repeating. My console in my studio is an A & H Sigma, with 24 of the 32 inputs having 1073 pre amps built into the board. I have grown to love these preamps and with the help of the tech that services my board, took the design of these pres, and reworked and fitted the design into an existing enclosure. We sent it to China for their engineers to study. They built a prototype and sent it back to me. We tested it and made some changes and sent it back. they reproduced the changes and sent it back to me. We again tested it (my Neve tech did all of this) It sounded great (my test) we then approved the electronics and had them re package it into a compact enclosure and they brought the finished prototype, ready for production, to the NAMM show. Me and my tech forfitted going to the NAMM show on Friday to really go thru these 3 pieces of gear. We were so excited at the results, but reluctantly had to return them at the NAMM show on Saturday. The idea was mine, the circuit design was from a well known Neve tech here in LA. I paid him for his time and it was money well spent. We both never thought that these things would be this well made especially for prototypes
I thought I mentioned this before, but maybe it's worth repeating. My console in my studio is an A & H Sigma, with 24 of the 32 inputs having 1073 pre amps built into the board. I have grown to love these preamps and with the help of the tech that services my board, took the design of these pres, and reworked and fitted the design into an existing enclosure. We sent it to China for their engineers to study. They built a prototype and sent it back to me. We tested it and made some changes and sent it back. they reproduced the changes and sent it back to me. We again tested it (my Neve tech did all of this) It sounded great (my test) we then approved the electronics and had them re package it into a compact enclosure and they brought the finished prototype, ready for production, to the NAMM show. Me and my tech forfitted going to the NAMM show on Friday to really go thru these 3 pieces of gear. We were so excited at the results, but reluctantly had to return them at the NAMM show on Saturday. The idea was mine, the circuit design was from a well known Neve tech here in LA. I paid him for his time and it was money well spent. We both never thought that these things would be this well made especially for prototypes
guitar zero
c = b#
From Chance in February 2007:
"I thought I mentioned this before, but maybe it's worth repeating. My console in my studio is an A & H Sigma, with 24 of the 32 inputs having 1073 pre amps built into the board. I have grown to love these preamps and with the help of the tech that services my board, took the design of these pres, and reworked and fitted the design into an existing enclosure. We sent it to China for their engineers to study. They built a prototype and sent it back to me. We tested it and made some changes and sent it back. they reproduced the changes and sent it back to me. We again tested it (my Neve tech did all of this) It sounded great (my test) we then approved the electronics and had them re package it into a compact enclosure and they brought the finished prototype, ready for production, to the NAMM show. Me and my tech forfitted going to the NAMM show on Friday to really go thru these 3 pieces of gear. We were so excited at the results, but reluctantly had to return them at the NAMM show on Saturday. The idea was mine, the circuit design was from a well known Neve tech here in LA. I paid him for his time and it was money well spent. We both never thought that these things would be this well made especially for prototypes"
From Alan Hyatt today:
"I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade here. The unit Chance is buying from 797 Audio is designed by 797 Audio, sorry Chance, not designed by you, not even the mic amp is different. All Chance did is change the color and put the TNC name on it.
Now I do not want to make this a bash thread. I have all the e-mails from John MA on this unit. I have all the schematics as well. I told you we passed on it. Just know this is not designed by Chance or his tech.".
It does seem that either Alan is lying, and I don't know why he would, or that we've been misled. Is there another explanation? Chance?
"I thought I mentioned this before, but maybe it's worth repeating. My console in my studio is an A & H Sigma, with 24 of the 32 inputs having 1073 pre amps built into the board. I have grown to love these preamps and with the help of the tech that services my board, took the design of these pres, and reworked and fitted the design into an existing enclosure. We sent it to China for their engineers to study. They built a prototype and sent it back to me. We tested it and made some changes and sent it back. they reproduced the changes and sent it back to me. We again tested it (my Neve tech did all of this) It sounded great (my test) we then approved the electronics and had them re package it into a compact enclosure and they brought the finished prototype, ready for production, to the NAMM show. Me and my tech forfitted going to the NAMM show on Friday to really go thru these 3 pieces of gear. We were so excited at the results, but reluctantly had to return them at the NAMM show on Saturday. The idea was mine, the circuit design was from a well known Neve tech here in LA. I paid him for his time and it was money well spent. We both never thought that these things would be this well made especially for prototypes"
From Alan Hyatt today:
"I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade here. The unit Chance is buying from 797 Audio is designed by 797 Audio, sorry Chance, not designed by you, not even the mic amp is different. All Chance did is change the color and put the TNC name on it.
Now I do not want to make this a bash thread. I have all the e-mails from John MA on this unit. I have all the schematics as well. I told you we passed on it. Just know this is not designed by Chance or his tech.".
It does seem that either Alan is lying, and I don't know why he would, or that we've been misled. Is there another explanation? Chance?
WhiteStrat
Don't stare at the eye.
And the world waits...
JTC111
Active member
Clearly that guy came here to instigate shit because there was clearly no other reason for him to throw that post up out of the blue like that.
Now to successfully instigate shit, he needs help from some of the Group Buy participants. If he can make you paranoid enough, or suspicious enough, then he can just sit back and enjoy himself as he watches what he created. I'm sure some of you will be happy to help him out.
Or you can think this through logically.
#1-He threw up a strawman argument by saying Chance didn't design the pres. That's true, but he's arguing against a claim that Chance never made. The pre designs are based upon the 1073s in Chance's board. Would he have needed schematics for the manufacturer to copy them? No, not if he sent one of the channels to them to make a copy from. So again, it's a strawman argument and to me those are always indicative of an ulterior motive.
#2-We are where we are in this process and we were all made well-aware of the risks involved when we signed up. We weren't going to be able to hear any samples before we bought. We suspected that we'd have to make some modifications to the units. To claim some kind of deception at this point is ridiculous.
#3-Someone said this guy has seen one of these units in person. There's no way of knowing if he saw the same unit we'll be buying. Units can have an identical outward appearance but modifications inside will make them different. There are a hundred scenarios why this might be the case including the chance that the manufacturer used an existing case and front panel design to make Chance's copy. Remember, the manufacturer is trying to keep the cost down also, and avoiding having to retool for a new case and front panel design would make a lot of sense from their standpoint. Additionally, we don't know what the manufacturer is really telling anyone and we don't know how much of it may be true or not.
#4-There's certainly some incentive for the instigator to want to sour people on the Group Buy process. He's in the business of selling low-cost audio equipment and the GB is certainly competition that he'd rather see less of. Does anyone think he'd like to see more GBs take place on a larger scale in the future? There's no reason I can think of that he'd support this kind of competition to his own business.
So let's not go bat-shit-crazy over that guy's post. We'll get our gear in time and we'll like it or we won't. There'll be room for us to improve upon it and for those who don't want to mod their gear, they'll be plenty of buyers to pass it off on. We'll all wind up learning something before this is all over and we'll all be better for it.
The best thing we can do right now is not encourage the shit-stirrers.
Now, a little good rep if you don't mind; this thing took a long time to type
ausrock
Well-known member
Hmmmmm................................
If these units are from 797 then people should probably be grateful to Alan for saying so, as you would now know that the gear is at least coming from an experience manufacturer and not some crappy little company in a tin shed somewhere in China.
If the people at 797 have talked to Alan about these units then it should be a lesson to everyone here about how the Chinese view confidentiality..........I mean they didn't want Chance talking about specific details but they are quite happy to discuss those same details with other manufacturers
Obviously Alan is not involved in this group buy and probably hasn't read every single page in this monster of a thread, consequently, he was probably unaware of any requests for specific details to be kept "confidential".
While these pres are apparently great value, regardless of what circuit topology they are based on, people need to face the fact that they are still going to be just another Chinese produced pre.........manufactured with all the usual standard grade components, etc., etc.,.......a pre that as Alan said, can, with the right mods be made into something quite acceptable. Unfortunately, the way some people in this thread have spoken in the past, you'd think they were expecting to buy the Holy Grail.
Alan said PMI had "passed" on the 797 pres in the past, he didn't say that there was anything wrong with them, the implication was that they just weren't something PMI was interested in.
At the end of the day, regardless of anything else, people are getting gear at bloody good prices, gear that they may not have been able to buy otherwise.
If these units are from 797 then people should probably be grateful to Alan for saying so, as you would now know that the gear is at least coming from an experience manufacturer and not some crappy little company in a tin shed somewhere in China.
If the people at 797 have talked to Alan about these units then it should be a lesson to everyone here about how the Chinese view confidentiality..........I mean they didn't want Chance talking about specific details but they are quite happy to discuss those same details with other manufacturers
Obviously Alan is not involved in this group buy and probably hasn't read every single page in this monster of a thread, consequently, he was probably unaware of any requests for specific details to be kept "confidential".
While these pres are apparently great value, regardless of what circuit topology they are based on, people need to face the fact that they are still going to be just another Chinese produced pre.........manufactured with all the usual standard grade components, etc., etc.,.......a pre that as Alan said, can, with the right mods be made into something quite acceptable. Unfortunately, the way some people in this thread have spoken in the past, you'd think they were expecting to buy the Holy Grail.
Alan said PMI had "passed" on the 797 pres in the past, he didn't say that there was anything wrong with them, the implication was that they just weren't something PMI was interested in.
At the end of the day, regardless of anything else, people are getting gear at bloody good prices, gear that they may not have been able to buy otherwise.
R
rocketmark
New member
Does it matter? It's going to sound how it sounds no matter who designed it, the unknown Neve tech or the unknown Chinese engineer. It's a cheap mic pre, and the risk that it is going to sound like crap is the same regardless. Why are you placing more faith in one person you don't know and haven't met over another person you don't know and haven't met? If you don't like how it sounds, wait a few weeks until someone posts a mod for it. Or sell it on ebay. The only thing I think was ever clear was that a couple people thought they were worth the low low price and wanted to share the opportunity. I don't think anyone can really claim righteous indignation at being sold a false bill of goods. The risk was always there and was repeated ad nauseam in this thread alone, let alone every other message board that this topic was covered.
R
rocketmark
New member
At the end of the day, regardless of anything else, people are getting gear at bloody good prices, gear that they may not have been able to buy otherwise.
You beat me to it
and well said.
P
P. Glaser
New member
Is it possible that the Chinese are passing off Chance's design as their own? Or plan on marketing it to other vendors?
WhiteStrat
Don't stare at the eye.
Look, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be happy no matter what. This isn't my first GB, so I know and gladly accept the risk. I just made my smart "and the world waits" remark--because that's what we do--we wait. I should've been more clear.
It's been said so many ways--we're getting access to gear at great prices. The exchange is the risk. You gotta be comfortable with that to even get in.
(And I use my mics from Chance's last GB all the time!)
It's been said so many ways--we're getting access to gear at great prices. The exchange is the risk. You gotta be comfortable with that to even get in.
(And I use my mics from Chance's last GB all the time!)
ausrock
Well-known member
JTC,
I think if Alan wanted to sabotage or undermine this "exercise" he could have easliy done so without ever posting here, FFS considering the business he does with China, he probably could have put a stop to the GB before it even started and frankly, while you can come up with as many "conspiracy theories" as you want, I can't for the life of me see that the GB could be any real threat to his company. All he did was pass on information which 1)may be factual or maybe not......and 2) probably would have been better left unsaid...............unfortunately, the manner in which it was done was to say the least clumsy and awkward but then I've never known Alan to do anything other than call a spade a spade in his own inimitable way
.
I think if Alan wanted to sabotage or undermine this "exercise" he could have easliy done so without ever posting here, FFS considering the business he does with China, he probably could have put a stop to the GB before it even started and frankly, while you can come up with as many "conspiracy theories" as you want, I can't for the life of me see that the GB could be any real threat to his company. All he did was pass on information which 1)may be factual or maybe not......and 2) probably would have been better left unsaid...............unfortunately, the manner in which it was done was to say the least clumsy and awkward but then I've never known Alan to do anything other than call a spade a spade in his own inimitable way
.
Fab4ever
Getting better
This is also playing out at g@%rslutz... and there I posted this:
Nothing Alan said bothered me very much. I've only talked to him once by phone, and I've read many of his posts on the boards. He's opinionated, a bit brash perhaps, but I don't assume he has it out for Chance.
It's funny, in a way -- So many people over the years have accused Alan's Studio Project line of being off-the-shelf Chinese mics, and he's spent many hours refuting those points. Now, Alan is saying the same thing about Chance's preamps.
I'm not sure exactly what to believe about the origins of the preamps, but I'm not sweating it a bit. I am confident they will sound good - especially good for the price. FWIW I also own a Studio Projects mic and a Joemeek compressor, both of which I use and enjoy.
I heartily agree that Chance deserves to make some money off of this transaction, which undoubtedly has cost him a lot of time. I said it before and I'll repeat it: Thanks, Chance, for doing this. I eagerly await your next moves.
Surely the world, and the audio market, is big enough to accomodate Chance, Alan and the other audio manufacturer/sellers who believe in their products.
Fab
Nothing Alan said bothered me very much. I've only talked to him once by phone, and I've read many of his posts on the boards. He's opinionated, a bit brash perhaps, but I don't assume he has it out for Chance.
It's funny, in a way -- So many people over the years have accused Alan's Studio Project line of being off-the-shelf Chinese mics, and he's spent many hours refuting those points. Now, Alan is saying the same thing about Chance's preamps.
I'm not sure exactly what to believe about the origins of the preamps, but I'm not sweating it a bit. I am confident they will sound good - especially good for the price. FWIW I also own a Studio Projects mic and a Joemeek compressor, both of which I use and enjoy.
I heartily agree that Chance deserves to make some money off of this transaction, which undoubtedly has cost him a lot of time. I said it before and I'll repeat it: Thanks, Chance, for doing this. I eagerly await your next moves.
Surely the world, and the audio market, is big enough to accomodate Chance, Alan and the other audio manufacturer/sellers who believe in their products.
Fab
JTC111
Active member
JTC,
I think if Alan wanted to sabotage or undermine this "exercise" he could have easliy done so without ever posting here, FFS considering the business he does with China, he probably could have put a stop to the GB before it even started and frankly, while you can come up with as many "conspiracy theories" as you want, I can't for the life of me see that the GB could be any real threat to his company. All he did was pass on information which 1)may be factual or maybe not......and 2) probably would have been better left unsaid...............unfortunately, the manner in which it was done was to say the least clumsy and awkward but then I've never known Alan to do anything other than call a spade a spade in his own inimitable way
But it begs the question: to what purpose? I'll repeat that... That post was made TO WHAT PURPOSE?
And if the information "may be factual or maybe not," it shouldn't have been posted as fact. You're right that it would've been better left unsaid because it's only purpose is stirring up shit and causing angst where there was none.
And please don't throw the "conspiracy theories" label on me. I didn't outline a conspiracy. I was referring to the possible motivations of one person, not a group of people. There's no such thing as a conspiracy of one.
D
drBill
New member
The holy grail? No. But an excellent pre that major LA engineers clamored to get in line to buy? Yes. By Chances own words. I didn't make it up or imagine it. I took him at his word and still do until I find out otherwise.
I didn't order 6 chinese POC's, and if that's what they turn out to be, then I'll be dissapointed. Either my opinion of LA engineers will not be what it once was, or my feeling about GB's will be diminished, but until then I'll stand and wait for what I ordered without complaint.
It was a chance (sorry, bad pun not intended) I felt I could/should take, but I was not led to believe that they would be something substandard or anything less then completely useable. On the contrary, we were told they would have outsourced above standard (Chinese Standard) pots and trannies. I wouldn't have ordered 6 as an "experiment" if I hadn't felt they would be useable. For those of us hoping for the best, saying that they are "cheap" and "what do you expect" does not cut it.
R
retro1
New member
There's still a difference between risk and misrepresentation. Currently nobody knows the truth of this situation, so nothing else to say on that currently.
But claiming it doesn't matter or that potential falsehood was part of the risk is complete bullshit.
T and C's words stand until proven otherwise.
But claiming it doesn't matter or that potential falsehood was part of the risk is complete bullshit.
T and C's words stand until proven otherwise.
nuemes
Be Here Now
With all due respect, Chance, this has been a public forum from the start and should remain that way. You wouldn't be able to do this without this forum.
Based on my previous group buy experience with you I have faith in you. Last group buy went well and the products were very good at their price. You never posted sound samples of the pre's for this group buy though, despite having the pre's in hand, that bugged me.
From what I've seen from Alan on this board in the past I have not been too keen on him (DJL/Alan thing went on uselessly forever...)
If Alan has something to say I think it should be heard by everyone. If Alan is wrong (or lying) about the pre's you'll have the opportunity to set things straight.
On the otherhand If Alan is correct we should all be aware, whatever the consequence.
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
My guess in all of this was some of you would be pissed off. I really don't care if you are. I have stated that Chance provides a good service and he should make money for it. I have no motive to sell anything here which I thought was not allowed on public forums as that is SPAM, but if you can do it under the Group Buy label, great.
All I am doing is telling you guys the truth. If you read back, Chance has said the transformers are from the USA, then they were not from China but 797 Audio could not tell them where it was from because it is confidential and then that he designed the mic amp and made some other changes so the factory could not begin production....All not true.
I did not ask about this deal. John MA at 797 Audio told me about the deal. I then looked at it and saw all of these claims as to what this unit was and who influenced its design. If you all are happy not getting the truth, then I am happy to see you guys be told what ever you want to hear, no matter if you are getting a good deal or not.
I have told you what this unit is, who designed it and where it has come from. I have answered many questions here so you all could be clear and happy with what you are buying. I told you there are more units 797 Audio designed and my guess is you will buying them as well...Great! Just know they from 797 Audio, a good company that I deal with and designed by 797 Audio and no one else...
I came in and told Chance answers to a product he did not have or know. I did this to help him and you. There is nothing confidential in China. I did not seek it out. Any one of you can do what Chance does. Contact a factory and buy goods. They all do it. They are only interested in money there.
So I will still post the photos for you guys. For those that think I did something dirty here, I cannot change your mind. I never said the unit you are buying is bad, and I never asked you to not buy it, and I never asked you to buy anything from me.
What I did, was tell you the truth about the unit you are buying rather then telling you non truths or guesses about its origin and its design. Now you know, whether you even believe it or not, no matter. My motive here is the person selling you this should tell you the truth and at best have the answers. Nothing more, nothing less....If he did design it, he would have all the answers to the questions I have addressed.
Good luck with your purchases. The next time you buy something I should just let you get told what you all want to hear...misrepresentations or not. I will post the photos for those that asked, but post no further replies as it seems you are happier to be mislead than to know the truth....
All I am doing is telling you guys the truth. If you read back, Chance has said the transformers are from the USA, then they were not from China but 797 Audio could not tell them where it was from because it is confidential and then that he designed the mic amp and made some other changes so the factory could not begin production....All not true.
I did not ask about this deal. John MA at 797 Audio told me about the deal. I then looked at it and saw all of these claims as to what this unit was and who influenced its design. If you all are happy not getting the truth, then I am happy to see you guys be told what ever you want to hear, no matter if you are getting a good deal or not.
I have told you what this unit is, who designed it and where it has come from. I have answered many questions here so you all could be clear and happy with what you are buying. I told you there are more units 797 Audio designed and my guess is you will buying them as well...Great! Just know they from 797 Audio, a good company that I deal with and designed by 797 Audio and no one else...
I came in and told Chance answers to a product he did not have or know. I did this to help him and you. There is nothing confidential in China. I did not seek it out. Any one of you can do what Chance does. Contact a factory and buy goods. They all do it. They are only interested in money there.
So I will still post the photos for you guys. For those that think I did something dirty here, I cannot change your mind. I never said the unit you are buying is bad, and I never asked you to not buy it, and I never asked you to buy anything from me.
What I did, was tell you the truth about the unit you are buying rather then telling you non truths or guesses about its origin and its design. Now you know, whether you even believe it or not, no matter. My motive here is the person selling you this should tell you the truth and at best have the answers. Nothing more, nothing less....If he did design it, he would have all the answers to the questions I have addressed.
Good luck with your purchases. The next time you buy something I should just let you get told what you all want to hear...misrepresentations or not. I will post the photos for those that asked, but post no further replies as it seems you are happier to be mislead than to know the truth....
D
drBill
New member
Agreed. I'm with you on that!!
This is a "forum", and should be open to discussion though.
nuemes
Be Here Now
Alan, you are calling Chance a liar straight up by stating this. How do you know for a fact that your information is correct?
nuemes
Be Here Now
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