Greetings, with help and advice needed.

[PPKing]

Hi everyone, I just signed up to this forum, so I really do apologise if this is in the wrong section!

I'm an acoustic guitarist and work with a female singer. We have been performing for quite some time now however I really want to get us into recording material and putting it out there.

I have saved up £2,000 to get us going in setting up a home studio to try and get decent recordings done. Now I know that there is so much to learn, and for someone new to the home studio set up, it really is quite daunting.

Could anyone please help me and point me into the right direction of what equipment and set up I would need? As I say we are just guitar and vocals, looking at layering the tracks and also recording keyboard. I have ezdrummer for the percussion side that Im learning a lot about so now I want to progress further and get a good set up going to give us the best chance.

Any help on equipment essentials, and also recommendations then that would be great.

I currently have:
Taylor 414ce ltd
Macbook pro
Rode NT2-A
PreSonus Firestudio mobile


Thanks everyone.

P.S I can afford to go over my budget if need be for that little bit more quality.

Thanks.
Paul

 

[dreib]

People are gonna probably suggest room treatments, and yes while important, I think when starting out in "home recording " getting your gear, and learning your gear should come first.

Looks like you need recording software, download Reaper, its free to try and is really good.

Good luck!

 

[mjbphotos]

Definitely try Reaper first.

Before buying much gear, lay down some definite plans - what are your goals in recording? Demos, CDs to sell, free downloads for fans, etc. You've got the basics, although you need some headphones and monitors. There is a pretty steep learning curve in homerecording, learn to work with what you've got, after that figure out what you need to go to the next level.

 

[PPKing]

Thanks for the replies. I completely agree with the learn with what you've got and then see what you need attitude so will be doing so much testing and experimenting. As far as goals go, I think a little bit of each of those to be honest, really is a journey of seeing where the road will go which I guess is the beauty of music.

My macbook pro is a 2011 edition. I'm thinking of selling this though and putting a bit of money into investing in an iMac. What are peoples thoughts on this? I think it's time I would like to have a desktop computer with a mouse and keyboard, with a bigger display to go with. Something I'm seriously considering.

 

[Justsomeguy]

Could anyone please help me and point me into the right direction of what equipment and set up I would need? As I say we are just guitar and vocals, looking at layering the tracks and also recording keyboard. I have ezdrummer for the percussion side that Im learning a lot about so now I want to progress further and get a good set up going to give us the best chance.

I currently have:
Taylor 414ce ltd
Macbook pro
Rode NT2-A
PreSonus Firestudio mobile

Hey man, i just wanted to double check something. You already have the gear listed above and have £2000 to spend on extra gear OR that's what you're thinking spending £2000 on? I'd guess the first as you said about selling the MBP but just wanted to check (it's happened before)

I currently run an early 2012 MBP with a Presonus Firestudio Mobile as my main computer and audio interface and love it to bits. However, portability was an issue for me so the MBP and firestudio made sense as i could happily sling them in a bag to record "on the go" or have them setup at home as the centre of my "studio". I'd really say it's up to you whether or not to replace the MBP for an iMac but, as you said, if it's just gonna be used as a studio computer, the bigger screen, mouse and keyboard are all useful (although you could always just buy a mouse and attach a bigger screen to the MBP)

Otherwise, if i had your list of gear and wanted to focus just on recording and mixing acoustic guitar and vocals, I'd concentrate my efforts into acoustically treating your space, finding some decent monitors for mixing, and then looking for a couple of nice mics - one that really suits your female vocalist and one or two for the acoustic guitar.

 

[PPKing]

Hey man, i just wanted to double check something. You already have the gear listed above and have £2000 to spend on extra gear OR that's what you're thinking spending £2000 on? I'd guess the first as you said about selling the MBP but just wanted to check (it's happened before)

I currently run an early 2012 MBP with a Presonus Firestudio Mobile as my main computer and audio interface and love it to bits. However, portability was an issue for me so the MBP and firestudio made sense as i could happily sling them in a bag to record "on the go" or have them setup at home as the centre of my "studio". I'd really say it's up to you whether or not to replace the MBP for an iMac but, as you said, if it's just gonna be used as a studio computer, the bigger screen, mouse and keyboard are all useful (although you could always just buy a mouse and attach a bigger screen to the MBP)

Otherwise, if i had your list of gear and wanted to focus just on recording and mixing acoustic guitar and vocals, I'd concentrate my efforts into acoustically treating your space, finding some decent monitors for mixing, and then looking for a couple of nice mics - one that really suits your female vocalist and one or two for the acoustic guitar.

Hey mate,

Yeah I have £2000 to spend, which I was thinking putting towards an iMac after the money from my MBP. I thought that portability was an issue for me too which is why I opted for the MBP, however since then I have found that I have never used it in more than 2 places! SO now as to making a good go of recording I think that the iMac would be a better suited option for me overall.

I know mic's are a personal choice, but have you heard or know of any mics that go well with Taylors in particular? I'm more a fingerstyle guitarist with the occasional strumming, nothing heavy. It does seem to be boiling down to monitors and mics at the moment, and a case of sorting out the treatment of the room.

 

[Justsomeguy]

Hey mate,

Yeah I have £2000 to spend, which I was thinking putting towards an iMac after the money from my MBP. I thought that portability was an issue for me too which is why I opted for the MBP, however since then I have found that I have never used it in more than 2 places! SO now as to making a good go of recording I think that the iMac would be a better suited option for me overall.

I know mic's are a personal choice, but have you heard or know of any mics that go well with Taylors in particular? I'm more a fingerstyle guitarist with the occasional strumming, nothing heavy. It does seem to be boiling down to monitors and mics at the moment, and a case of sorting out the treatment of the room.

Lol, yep that sounds familiar I have a couple of mates who bought MPB's with the intention of recording everywhere and then found they only used them in the living room and their bedrooms. One replaced his with a mac mini and the other still has his (mainly because he likes sitting on his sofa with it).

Tbf i own a Taylor Big Baby which, although still a taylor, isn't quite as balanced in sound as the higher end ones (i bought it mainly because i'm quite a small chap and normal size acoustics dwarf me!). Plus the majority of my playing is...well... heavy handed perhaps is the best term for it. Saying that i've recorded some finger style pieces with it and found the AKG C414's to be exceptional at recording it. On my home budget these were well out of my price range so i went for the Avantone CK7 (which also suits my voice so it was win-win for me) but the C414's are just great on it. I also used a pair of C414's on a Taylor 814ce a couple of years back and it came out beautifully. A pair new would set you back about £1500 but second hand would probably be about £1000 ish. I'm not personally a fan of them on vocals but I am in the minority on that one as they get a lot of praise as a vocal mic as well.

Otherwise, a pair of SDC's like the Oktava MK012's would also serve very well on the acoustic guitar and would leave you more budget for a dedicated vocal mic and monitors.

Then again, one C414, one other LDC for vocals, and a half decent pair of monitors should easily fall within your budget.

 

[PPKing]

Lol, yep that sounds familiar I have a couple of mates who bought MPB's with the intention of recording everywhere and then found they only used them in the living room and their bedrooms. One replaced his with a mac mini and the other still has his (mainly because he likes sitting on his sofa with it).

Tbf i own a Taylor Big Baby which, although still a taylor, isn't quite as balanced in sound as the higher end ones (i bought it mainly because i'm quite a small chap and normal size acoustics dwarf me!). Plus the majority of my playing is...well... heavy handed perhaps is the best term for it. Saying that i've recorded some finger style pieces with it and found the AKG C414's to be exceptional at recording it. On my home budget these were well out of my price range so i went for the Avantone CK7 (which also suits my voice so it was win-win for me) but the C414's are just great on it. I also used a pair of C414's on a Taylor 814ce a couple of years back and it came out beautifully. A pair new would set you back about £1500 but second hand would probably be about £1000 ish. I'm not personally a fan of them on vocals but I am in the minority on that one as they get a lot of praise as a vocal mic as well.

Otherwise, a pair of SDC's like the Oktava MK012's would also serve very well on the acoustic guitar and would leave you more budget for a dedicated vocal mic and monitors.

Then again, one C414, one other LDC for vocals, and a half decent pair of monitors should easily fall within your budget.

I've done various searches on YouTube of all the mics you've mentioned in the post and I love them all in their own ways! Such a hard choice but you have given me ideas and options to work from so for that I'm extremely thankful.

I've only been a member on this site for a few hours now but have already had some great feedback. I'm going to be addicted to this forum!

 

[Steenamaroo]

I wouldn't bother with the imac unless there's some other reason that you want it.
2011 MacBook Pro is absolutely capable!

I too have an early 2012 mac book pro and found it's limits a few days ago.
It was something like 37 tracks, 66 plugs, 4 virtual instruments and about 10 instances of elastic audio.
This was with the buffer setting at 128!!!

Flicked it up to 256 and carried on.

Looking at your list, I don't think you'll need anything apart from the obvious. (headphones, stands, cables, popshields)

 

[Steenamaroo]

I wouldn't bother with the imac unless there's some other reason that you want it.
2011 MacBook Pro is absolutely capable!

I too have an early 2012 mac book pro and found it's limits a few days ago.
It was something like 37 tracks, 66 plugs, 4 virtual instruments and about 10 instances of elastic audio.
This was with the buffer setting at 128!!!

Flicked it up to 256 and carried on.
Looking at your list, I don't think you'll need anything apart from the obvious. (headphones, stands, cables, popshields)

There's no point spending money on mics just because you have it. How does that Rode NT2-A sound on your Taylor?

 

[PPKing]

I wouldn't bother with the imac unless there's some other reason that you want it.
2011 MacBook Pro is absolutely capable!

I too have an early 2012 mac book pro and found it's limits a few days ago.
It was something like 37 tracks, 66 plugs, 4 virtual instruments and about 10 instances of elastic audio.
This was with the buffer setting at 128!!!




Flicked it up to 256 and carried on.

Looking at your list, I don't think you'll need anything apart from the obvious. (headphones, stands, cables, popshields)

Blimey! Sounds like you had a big project on the go there then! Hows that getting on?

Yeah, looking at monitors, headphones, stands and cables. Sorry if this is a silly question, but when it comes to cables, is there a general rule of thumb to go by for each piece of equipment? Sorry for the vagueness of the question but it's something that I have never really thought alot about before in the sense that 'a cable is a cable' sort of thing. How wrong I am!

I'm not too impressed with the Rode on my Taylor to be completely honest. I've had a lot of playing with it, and I also got a friend of mine who is a sound engineer to help, however even with his input it still wasn't the sound I was after, theres still something thats bugging me, for my personal taste anyway but it's really bugging me now as I haven't been pleased since purchase. However for vocals it has worked great.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Fair enough. Just wanted to be sure you'd at least tried it.

I tend to stereo mic acoustic guitars when they're the main thing.
I have a pair of sm81s that I love and I used oktava mk012s before quite happily.
Either of those would be a great investment for almost any acoustic instrument.

Cables? Nah, there's no rule.
What are you going to need? Couple of xlr m-f, a few TRS cables for monitor speakers, a firewire cable....Just buy whatever.


It was indeed a big project. Funny enough it's an acoustic guitarist and singer, but I went a bit mental on the mix after he left.

 

[gcolbert]

I have even more an even more minimalist suggestion for the OP. Start by using what you already have along with Garage Band (should already be on your Mac). You may need a couple of mics. Consider starting with a Sure SM57 (for your guitar) and a Sure SM58 for your vocalist. Learn the concepts here, then look for a daw that does what you had to fight to get GB to do for you. Experiment with what rooms you already have before buying a bunch of stuff to change the sound. You may already have a place that sounds good to record from.

 

[Justsomeguy]

I've done various searches on YouTube of all the mics you've mentioned in the post and I love them all in their own ways! Such a hard choice but you have given me ideas and options to work from so for that I'm extremely thankful.

Welcome to world of buying audio equipment! Tbf, buying monitors and audio interfaces have been the hardest things i've ever had to purchase, mainly because of weighing up all the available choices! Mics were less of an issue as when i've bought mics i've had a very solid idea of the kind of sound i'm looking for with them (plus, i would gladly buy ever mic ever just to have a wide variety of tools and sounds to work with )

I'm glad steen asked about the NT2a. I realised after i went out that i should have asked but figured someone would

As always, if you can, it's often well worth a trip to a music store to try mics and listen to monitors but, and maybe it's just me, when i've looked for gear it's been very difficult to get out and try stuff. If that's the case then just make sure you take any online audio clips with a pinch of salt and remember that those mics may sound like that on their guitar into their preamp in their room but that doesn't necasserily mean it'll sound the same on your guitar/voice into your preamp in your room.

In terms of cables, it may be cheeky, but if you're buying new from stores/online and you're spending a grand on so there's no harm in asking them to throw in some xlr's or TRS cables for free. The worst they can say is no Tbf some stores sell them together anyway.

 

[PPKing]

Thanks for all the help and replies guys! After reading through so many posts now and getting a few headaches whilst doing so, I just want to clarify a few things. For the acoustic, is the best way simply: mic it up through the presonus running into the mac using the raw sound captured from the mics to then start mixing with? Just that I've heard lots of people saying about what preamp they're choosing and vice versa which makes me wonder is there another step in the process I could add in to help? Sorry for the vaguness once again, I don't seem to be too great at explaining what I mean!

Is there any good books that anyone can suggest for the whole recording and mixing anyone could recommend?

Paul

 

[Justsomeguy]

For the acoustic, is the best way simply: mic it up through the presonus running into the mac using the raw sound captured from the mics to then start mixing with? Just that I've heard lots of people saying about what preamp they're choosing and vice versa which makes me wonder is there another step in the process I could add in to help?

For simple ease of use and for clean, solid recordings, yes, just plug the mic straight into the built in mic preamps on the presonus and go for it! The Xmax pre's in the presonus stuff are surprisingly good; clean, quiet, they do what they need do to.

In the future you may find your self wanting to add more preamps to either utilise more inputs on the firestudio (i.e to record a full drum set) or just for the different flavours different preamps have, but as a starting point and on the budget you've got, i'd say just use the built in pre's on the presonus

EDIT: in fact, i'd forgotten i'd done this, but a year or so back i did a quick preamp shootout with the pre's available to me mainly to see how the preamps on the presonus firestudio mobile compared to my other pre's. To my ears, the differences in the raw audio are very subtle, but there were certainly some differences when i started to play around and mix the audio. Anyway, here's the link. See what you think

 

[PPKing]

Thanks for the link there mate! I definitely see what you mean in that the quality of the raw audio is very subtle with the different pre's. What was you happiest with after spending some time mixing the audio?

Seems like I'll just have to use the Presonus, work and try to get the most out of that and then go from there I think! What software do you use? I've heard good things about Reaper?

 

[Justsomeguy]

Seems like I'll just have to use the Presonus, work and try to get the most out of that and then go from there I think!

You make it sound like a bad thing As i said, i personally think the Presonus' pre's are fine (tbf they're exactly the same pre's they use in their studiolive desks and their price tag is significantly higher), plus not having to worry about buying preamps can help you spend your money on much cooler things like mics and monitors

Tbh, the one i found the easiest to work with was the Focusrite ISA220 (Preamp 1 on the soundcloud test) mainly because it had a more detailed high end and just sounded "sweeter" than the others. Then again, it was a £1200 unit at the time and it's what i use the most so have become very comfortable working with the sound. The Presonus was Preamp 4 on the tests and was still very easy to work with.

I use Logic 9 (mainly because i'm Mac based and it's what we use at work so it just makes moving stuff between home and work easier) but if i had to change, Reaper would be where i'd go. I've only used it a handful of times but it seems to do everything Logic does at a fraction of the price and the online support and community seem amazing!

 

[PPKing]

Sounds great mate, very impressed. Yeah I've heard a lot about Reaper on here and after checking it out, the low cost of it is even more attractive. Think I'll be giving the free trial a go and then making my mind up.

Sorry one last question!

As for micing I know it's all down to personal preference, however is a general rule that a stereo pair is more favourable? A pair of Oktava MK012s more favourable over a single AKG C214 for example?

 

[Justsomeguy]

Sorry one last question!

lol, dude ask as many questions as you want, everyone's here to help

As for micing I know it's all down to personal preference, however is a general rule that a stereo pair is more favourable? A pair of Oktava MK012s more favourable over a single AKG C214 for example?

Even this comes down to personal preference really. As Steen said earlier, if the acoustic guitar is the main focus of the song then stereo micing would help you fill the mix up nicely. If it's part of a denser mix than one mic is usually enough so that the guitar can shine through without cluttering up the mix.

Even then though there's no set rules to any of it. Alot of the time i use two mics, not as a traditional stereo mic setup, but to capture different parts of the guitar to add different qualities to the sound. For instance, if it's just an acoustic and vocals tracks i like to use either an LDC or Ribbon mic around the 12th - 14th fret and then either an LDC or and SDC just below the saddle. The one on the neck gives the bulk of the sound and i can adjust the second mic when tracking to either add a more "meaty" tone or aim it at the saddle and get a more percussive tone, and then blend to taste when mixing it. With this however, you really need to bare in mind that these kind of mic placements need to be done carefully so that the mic's are in phase with each other.

Another stereo mic technique that works well is Mid/side (M/S) where you have one mic in cardioid aimed dead centre and another mic in fig.8 at a 90 degree angle to the first. When you mix it, there's some jiggery pokey to make the fig.8 mic appear as the "sides" of the image (it's very easy to do but quite long winded to explain, but if it interests you there's plenty of info on the web and these boards) but this gives you a very solid stereo spread which fills the mix very well and you can pull in the side image if it's too wide.

There's two Sound on Sound articles that i think are quite useful; This one and this one, and there's a sticky on the boards here about recording acoustic guitar that's very useful.

Tbh, for the budget you've got and what you need from it, i'd be tempted to spring for the pair of either Oktava MK012's or the Shure SM81's, an AKG C414 or C214 (or LDC of choice to use for both acoustic guitar if required and definitely vocals) and that should still leave you about £800-£1000 for monitors. Also, bare in mind, things like the the oktava's, SM81's, and C414s still hold their value so even if you don't like them you could either return them to the store (if they have a decent returns policy, most do nowadays) or sell them on at very little loss and try something else.