"Greening" a CD...fact or fiction??

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Re: Time Smearing?

Scheisskopf99 said:
Time Smearing?

Man, someone has filled your head full of so much garbage, I can't wait to hear what you say next. Anyone with an elementary knowledge in electronics knows the length of the cables is irrelevant.

If you really want better sound from your home stereo, try internally wiring your speakers in parallel at 4 Ohm, with reverse-polarity impedance on the tweeters.

Next, instead of speaker cable, use standard coax cable for your speakers, since there is no loss of signal through coax cable due to the shielding effect.

Lastly, go in and get a hearing exam so you know where the weak spots are in your own self, then tweak your graphic eq to boost the ares where your ears need the most help.
Click to expand...

Scheisskopf99 ,
were you serious about that last point , about a hearing exam? Anyhow, I don't believe in eqing my speakers

please tell me more about this internal wiring stuff, and reverse polarity. HOw does this improve the sound. I am asking because I have read how a modified ns10ms sounded killer after it was modified.

I would like to know what smellyfuzz thinks about different cable lengths going into the same speaker. Anyhow, remember I said that I could not hear it, so it does not bother me.

Can you also clarify how non-speaker cable can be better? If memory serves me correctly, it has been advised to use only speaker cable, because regular cable somhow inhibits the amp and can even cause destruction. Bruce, Smellyfuzz, anyone.

peace


os. Bruce. WOW, how did you find that out about britney. I tried it, and her things more than doubled in size. :D I almost fell out of my chair. Now talk about a verifiable, quantifiable difference.

sorry, I just couldn't resist. :D
 
Rewiring

I'll try to find the article I have on rewiring the speakers, but at a bare minimum you'll need a receiver that has switchable ohm on the back from 8 to 4, otherwise you'll fry something. Basically it involves switching the speaker wiring from series to parallel, but it has to be done correctly to make sure the Ohms are correct.

Changing the polarity on the tweeters gives a spatial effect.
 
hey, thanks man, that would be something nice to try.

Why does it have to be four ohms, though. My speakers are 8 ohms, and my reciever is also 8 ohms. Will it not work at all at 8 ?

peace
 
It's the electronics

It's not so much that it has to be, it just deals with the laws of electronics. The Ohmage is determined by how things are wired up. For instance in guitar amps, two 8 ohm speakers are usally wired up for 4 Ohms, while four 8 Ohm speakers wired up are usually 8 Ohm.
 
ok,

I would really like to try that coaxial cable thing today. WHat do I need to take into consideration.

eg what is positive, what is negative. how many wires do I need, and what do I strip off .

thanks again
 
Re: Hey CJ....

Blue Bear Sound said:
Try that "greening" on Britney Spears first CD.... the sound will just blow your mind!!!!!

Also, if you marker up the edges of the CD jacket, it makes her breasts grow on the cover picture..........
Click to expand...

Just don't slip whit dat marka and hit her tight little posterior...it's perfekt already....

zip >>
 
Is this mind blowing or what

This should put an end to this arguement forever
--------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know how dvd works , but it has the same size as a cd, and uses a laser beam to read the data, right?

And if you can squeeze more information on the same surface space, that means that there are more zeroes and ones to deal with, right?

SO the best way to know if greening works is to green a dvd. It should sound noticeably better because there are more zeros and ones to discriminate between, IN the same amount of space. Right?

Also, the picture should be better, given the same reason that audio should be better. Because the laser strikes the actual bits more often.

SO anybody who has a dvd should try this and let us know.


Mind blowing.
 
1's and 0's

To be honest, this debate should have been over with long ago.

There are only ones and zeros, nothing more. What you imply with this "Greening" process is that there is some in-between state, call it a "maybe" state between the ones and zeros. It is an impossibility because the laser picks up only ones and zeros and reports them to the player, be it software or firmware.

Everyone knows what happens when ones and zeros are read incorrectly, such as a badly scratched CD - it sounds terrible!

By the way, this wives tale that has been carried on for more than 15 years since the introduction of the media. When I first heard about it is was originally done with a blue marker, not green.
 
SORRY SCHEISSKOPF99


YOU and your infinite wisdom forgot about a

compact disk player's error correction.
 
Just to add fuel to the fire...

Taken from the FAQ at rec.audio.tech.........


10.8 What about CD green pens?
In a nutshell, save your money.

A CD player "reads" information on the disc with a laser light
beam. Some believe that if you put a green stripe on the very
perimeter of the disc, then the light beam will not reflect
around inside the disc and will more clearly pick up the data.

Scientific studies of the data coming off of the disc have
failed to show any difference between a virgin disc and a green
painted disc. I have not heard of double blind listening
comparisons that have proved that there are people who can hear
the difference, although many have performed uncontrolled tests
with positive results.

10.9 What about CD stabilizer rings?
In a nutshell, save your money.

The data coming off of the disc is a serial string of ones and
zeros. If this bit stream has jitter, then it may reach the D/A
converter out of sync. If this happens, then the actual analog
signal recreated will have jitter, and won't be perfectly true.
The vendors of stabilizer rings say that using these rings will
reduce jitter and make a more perfect signal. Vendors also
claim that the rings can increase the mass of a disc, making it
spin more smoothly, and reducing transient load on the power
supply from the motor.

Some players will not play discs that have stabilizer rings on
them. The clamp can't handle the thickness. Other players play
ringed discs, but do not play them well, because the disc motor
was not built for the added load.

With those exceptions, scientific studies of the data coming off
of the disc have failed to show any improvement going from a
virgin to a ringed disc. I have not heard of double blind
comparisons that prove that people hear the difference, either.

10.10 What about CD spray treatments (ArmorAll et al)?
In a nutshell, save your money.

Current wisdom is to avoid any disc coating or spray. Some will
definitely damage the disc.

There are many theories on what ArmorAll can do to a disc. One
is that it reduces static which will attract the delicate head
of the laser detector to the disc. Another theory is that the
cleaner will fill voids in the disc with silicone, thereby
making it easier to read by reducing diffraction effects.

Scientific studies of the data coming off of the disc have
failed to show any difference between a virgin disc and a
treated disc. I have not heard of double blind listening
comparisons that have proved that there are people who can hear
the difference.

One of the strongest proponents of ArmorAll issued a "recall" on
his advice. He now warns that ArmorAll can damage the disc. He
also advises that you can clean ArmorAll off treated discs with
Dawn dish detergent.
Click to expand...

Full thread at...
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=c...wwindow=1&safe=off&rnum=2&seld=929353888&ic=1

Happy sparring!!

Bruce

:D
 
This might be easy to prove one way or the other by ripping a few CD's before and after "greening" and doing a diff on the resulting files.

My personal guess is that people are once again applying analog principals to a digital process. If there was enough digital error introduced into enough samples by crazy stray light waves that it caused a noticable degredation of sound quality, then this phenomenon would manifest itself also in occasional pops or cracks...or at least something that would make you go, "hey, what the hell was that." But then I suppose it could effect just enough samples in a wide enough pattern that only goldenears would hear it.

Whatever...take a disk and rip it about 10 times. Then green the CD and rip it about 10 more times. Mean & diff the files and see what kind of variation you get. I don't care what your ears hear, bits are bits.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Blue Bear...

Agree with all of the above. If you want a better sounding disc - the best you can do is buy a BETTER QUALITY disc...eg. Mitsui.

This is what I did. I have NOT heard a difference with a marker...I have heard a difference in disc QUALITY. Burn an Imation then burn a Mitsui and you tell me.

zip >>
 
Bingo Zip & Bingo to Bruce too! Use the better quality medium that technology( thru better dye) has produced for us FROM PROFESSIONAL CD MANUFACTURERS. And Bruce's linked message: If it ain't broke quite dicking with it and GO MIX SOME MUSIC. Unless of course u r an inventor looking to build a better mousetrap or one of those supercilious pompous-ass know-it-all AUDIOPHILES that can hear electron orbital jumps of a Fraunhoffer sodium d line that we mere mortals cannot! I don't know who said it first, but Sheeeeeeesh!!!! Doesn't anyone think that MAYBE, JUST MAYBE some professional in CD manufacturing would have STUMBLED across this phenomenal "green felt pen" top secret, eyes only, ancient Chinese secret ( wink, wink) and perhaps developed it and IMPLEMENTED this "technique" to REVOLUTIONIZE modern CD manufacturing as we know it today? AND CD's WOULD ALL NOW HAVE GREEN FREAKIN' LIPS! Nah, you're right this is one of those tricks of the trade, so don't let anyone know about this outside of our little circle eh(wink - wink!). Sheeeeeesh, double Sheeeeesh, and TRIPLE-DOG-DARE SHEEEEEEESH!!!!

sorry to all for the scarcasm, excepten you's aud-dee-o-files - ya want ta make your CD's "WARMER"? Stick 'em in your burner....... YOUR OIL BURNER! Mix the damn thing right the first time and you won't be looking "for a trick" to make it better. It'll be done properly from the outset. Hey, got an inside HOT stock tip.........
 
Too bad Ed got lost, he could probably help us thru these muddy GREEN waters, AH, maybe not........ here kitty, kitty, here kitty 'mon home...........


ya gotta try damnit!!
 
nice pic dr Stawl... gonna add it as everyone suddenly has a picture with their profile... gone for 5 days and everything has changed... talk about a haze...:D

greetz guhlenn.
 
The Great Green Experiment

Ok, I'm not sure why I did this.

I decided to conduct a little experiment. Assuming that playing an Audio CD and Extracting Audio from a CD are similar processes, which I gather they are from the following site:

http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~psyche/cdda/CDDAfaq_f.shtml#whatis

, then it should be simple to demonstrate whether greening a CD somehow changes characteristics of data as it is pulled off of the CD.

Before I continue I should point out that I was skeptical from the start. Having an education and professional background in CS, I have a fairly good grasp on most things digital. But then you never know when somebody starts in with the star-trek talk that is difficult to refute. That is, "yeah, but the scattered light rays influence the error correction mechanism." Well...since I am not physically familiar with the implementation of a typical CD reader's error correction mechanism, I figured heck, maybe there IS something to it. After all, how many people probably didn't believe in "jitter" the first time they heard about it!?

The testing procedure was simple.

1) I extracted two tracks from my Breeder's POD CD (which is clean and unabused) using Adaptec EZCD Creator 4.02d. One track 3rd from the beginning of the disc, and one from 3rd from the end. These will be our reference tracks. Since we are looking for variation between green tracks and regular tracks, it does not matter that these reference tracks may not be identical to their original masters back at Elektra Records. We are only concerned with variations.

2) I extracted the same tracks, each five more times, labeling them appropriately. These are our "regular" tracks.

3) I "greened" the CD with a Sharpie Permanant Marker, Series #30000. The color was what I would consider a "regular" green, and looked pretty dark when applied. I coated the circumference of the CD with green ink, making sure that it was solidly covered. I let the ink dry and then wiped off excess residue with a towel.

4) I extracted the same tracks, now "greened", five more times each and labeled them appropriately.

5) I compared each regular track to its reference track using Windiff and Hex Edit's Compare tool.

6) I compared each greened track to the reference tracks using Windiff and Hex Edit's Compare tool.

(The drive I used for the extraction is a standard Yamaha IDE 8x8x32 CDRW. I figure it to be comparable to an average consumer grade Audio CD player, as far as audio is concerned.)

The results:

There was absolutely no difference between ANY of the files and their respective reference tracks. I could have repeated this procedure with 10 or 100 extractions from five or six CD players, but I started to feel like an idiot.

This sort of thing reeks of hoax to begin with. Typically when you read about a limitation or a problem with a certain type of device, there will NOT be a solution involving a magic marker, a paperclip, carrots, or black sabbath t-shirts. If a ridiculously simple solution is put forth, and the problem is one that only special people are capable of noticing, then you can bet that the entire thing is a hoax.

Slackmaster 2000
 
That's the kinda data we need to see/hear.

You Scientist.

Good one Slack!
 
Slack - you big pessimist.......

...of course, you can't QUANTIFY the difference by actual testing!!!!!!!!!! Silly Boy!!!!!!!!!

Scientific analysis -- BAH!!!!!!!!!! You don't use science to hear with!

:D :D

Bruce


PS
It still strikes me as hilarious that one could spend THOUSANDS & THOUSANDS on a sound reproduction system and then need a $2.00 marker to improve it!
 
Take it to the next level slack....

Now repeat the testing with a strategically placed brick located somewhere above your CDRW....

Can we kill another hoax here???;) I agree with Emeric...data rules...

zip >>

ps...I listened to my greened CD last night after drinking a dozen or so green bottles of beer and WOW!! The difference was night and day....;)
 
"(The drive I used for the extraction is a standard
Yamaha IDE 8x8x32 CDRW. I figure it to be comparable
to an average consumer grade Audio CD player, as far
as audio is concerned.) "


ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME???????????????


Slackmaster2K, !!!!!!!

WHY DID YOU NOT PERFORM THIS TEST ON AN AIRPORT RUNWAY???

If you skeptics want to decided if something actually works....

PLEASE... just throw it on the absolute worst, inaccurate piece of

crap you can find.

NOBODY can hear any reliable difference of anything on a FUCKING COMPUTER

SETUP!

ARE YOU GUYS REALLY MIXING DOWN ON A PAIR OF CPU SPEAKERS?????

THAT ARE MADE OF PLASTIC???

THAT COST MAYBE $100.00 ????

OOOOOOOOOOH..... let me guess... "it doesn't matter Speakers are speakers."
 
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