Great vocals???

[skaman]

What makes vocals soud so huge, clear and natural in the modern comercial and underground music? They are almost always put very loud in the mix but they still fit in so perfectly. What kind of stuff is used for recording? Does it depend so much of the gear used for rec or i this just a mixing issue?

When i record vocals in my homestudio they often sound so thin, but when i put the fader up, it is like they dont fit in the mix at all!

I didnt record vocs with large diaphragm condenser yet, couse i dont own one but i tried with sm57, sm58, sennheiser md425, beyerdinamic mce530 (small-diaphragm condenser). i use behringer mic100 preamp which i know that sucks or just a mixers preamp (studiomaster 16-4-2).

thanks everyone!

 

[KevinDrummer]

Compression, reverb, delay, chorus, EQ, pitch correction, doubling

Not all the above - but usually a few in moderate doses.

I sound like total crap in the raw take. It ends up sounding halfway decent after processing.

IMO, compression is a key in making it "fit in the mix". Level control is very important since vocal levels can be so dynamic.

 

[Junior33]

Hey, You can get a L.D condensor for about 80 dollars. The CAD gxl 2200. it's cheap, yes but I've found that it makes a big difference to use any L.D. condensor mic rather than a S.D. or dynamic. Just my little piece of thought.

 

[reshp1]

All of the above and that they "carve" out the frequencies that the vocals occupy in the other tracks, primarily the guitars, to make the vocals sound more distinct.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Getting great vocals is no secret.

Great vocalist recorded by a great engineer using great equipment passed on to a great mixer.

Simplicity itself.

More so than any other effect, however, compression is the most important thing to get a vocal to sit right.

 

[manning1]

ska. other than what the other posters have said , new daw users just dont edit the track. i really go in DEEP into the vocal track boosting say a syllable thats too weak or lowering the db of one that is too strong.
also i use fade in/out tricks at the deep level on syllables. really - its a lot of attention to DETAIL. like silencing the track between vocals singing to lower the noise floor. rather than use a compressor i often do detailed editing on the wavelets. also try singing the vocals twice. this can add depth and richness. try also offsetting one of the doubles from the original by the minutest amount (few milliseconds). experiment lots.
also try this. set up the lead vocals FIRST, then gradually work bringing up the backing tracks one at a time and fitting them in.
a lot of people do it the other way. backing tracks THEN the vocals thus they dont have enough "room left" for the vocals. ive been guilty of this myself. sinatras records are a good case in point. notice how he is often way out in front of the backing tracks ? ie..just they are just THERE
if you know what i mean. also ensure the vocals are the focal point and backing musical phrases dont conflict with the listeners focus on the vocal.
an old engineer once slammed into my head, the best backing tracks are the ones you dont notice !! think about the depth of what he was trying to tell me for a moment.

 

[skaman]

Thanks everyone!

about compression of vocals!? I heard a lot, that compressing when recording is not smart idea, couse it can totally destroy the track. what do you think about cobase sx compression, can it do the proper job if used corectly or is the software not the match for the hardware comps at all??? i will soon get the waves package too and with that c1 compressor! does anybody have any experience with those?

manning good idea that with fading and enveloping tracks! i use it sometimes with drums, but i didnt think of using it for vocals. i think i will play for a bit with that!

what preamp do you suguest? what do you say about joemeek?

 

[grn]

...

let us not forget that a great vocalist who knows proper mic technique makes editing much easier as well... speaking as a musician and not as someone who will go into recording engineering later on, I know it makes my life easier to sing better instead of fixing it later... since I'm not really good at doing that

 

[reshp1]

Thanks everyone!

about compression of vocals!? I heard a lot, that compressing when recording is not smart idea, couse it can totally destroy the track. what do you think about cobase sx compression, can it do the proper job if used corectly or is the software not the match for the hardware comps at all??? i will soon get the waves package too and with that c1 compressor! does anybody have any experience with those?

manning good idea that with fading and enveloping tracks! i use it sometimes with drums, but i didnt think of using it for vocals. i think i will play for a bit with that!

what preamp do you suguest? what do you say about joemeek?

Compression when recording isn't necessarily a bad idea. Just remember that it can't be undo and if you do use it, use it less than you think you need. The S/W compressors aren't going to do anything for you while tracking though. The idea is to limit the vocal's dynamic range so as to not clip/overload your A/D convertors. If you use S/W, they work on the samples AFTER conversion, so it's already too late.

 

[skaman]

yes i know, that sw comps dont work on input, but there was a question of quality! are sw comps good enough to do the semi-pro or pro job???

thanks for any support!

 

[LRosario]

What makes vocals sound so good?

Objectivity

A co-worker of mine was convinced his vocals where sounding like charred-ass, until I took a listen to it.

I told him, "if you want my unprofessional and biased opinion, call God because I think I just found the most pefect vocal track ever". He just couldn't tell, because he was emotionally involved with it.

 

[manning1]

ska. one of my favorite budget preamps i like to recommend is the rane ms1b
very difficult to beat for the price.
but now i make my own diy pre's for 20 bucks in parts. use same op amps as in big studio mixers. if anyone wants to know how. just ask.
but be aware for safety reasons take a adult short electronics course at college at nights for a few months.
peace.
ps..ska also try a studio projects vtb1 pre sometime. quite liked by a lot of folks. i dont know much about meek pre. except sadly he has departed this life.
a great talent who did the 60s #1 hit "Telstar" with the tornados if i remember . as a bit of interest he did the sound of spaceships on this hit by recording a toilet flushing then reversing the tape i understand. a fascinating talented human being.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

i dont know much about meek pre. except sadly he has departed this life.
a great talent who did the 60s #1 hit "Telstar" with the tornados if i remember . as a bit of interest he did the sound of spaceships on this hit by recording a toilet flushing then reversing the tape i understand. a fascinating talented human being.

Going off on a bit of a tangent here but there was an excellent article in last months sound on sound magazine on the innovators of sound recording. Suffice to say Joe Meek is featured along with Tom Dowd, Bill Putnam, Tom Scholz & George Massenberg. Fascinating stuff.

As you were

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

about compression of vocals!? I heard a lot, that compressing when recording is not smart idea, couse it can totally destroy the track. what do you think about cobase sx compression, can it do the proper job if used corectly or is the software not the match for the hardware comps at all??? i will soon get the waves package too and with that c1 compressor! does anybody have any experience with those?

I'll set a compressor to start working around -6dbfs on soft knee and gradually work its way up to a 20:1 ratio to avoid clipping. The soft knee makes the compression more transparent and is really only controlling the extremes of the signal.. you will have room go go back and hit it up with some more compression later without too degrading of an effect.

You can get good results with the C1 compressor after the fact. Personally the Renaissance Compressor on optic is my favorite vocal plugin at the current moment.

 

[In Tune Audio]

ve
but now i make my own diy pre's for 20 bucks in parts. use same op amps as in big studio mixers. if anyone wants to know how. just ask.
but be aware for safety reasons take a adult short electronics course at college at nights for a few months.
peace.



Hey manning I would love to get the plans for that preamp. Anyinfo would be much appreciated. Private message or email if you would be willing.

 

[turnitdown]

You would need to ask Ashlee Simpson what makes great vocals...

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

You would need to ask Ashlee Simpson what makes great vocals...

She would point over to a single unit rack labeled "TC Helicon Voice One".

 

[Xipe]

The VoicePrismPlus gives you all kinds of ways to humanize its harmonies and effects, especially since you can separately change each individual part or voice. Detune slightly, apply more or less vibrato, alter gender along a spectrum, change levels, pan, tweak the timing of attack and trail offs. You can tweak each individual voice and can also choose a random setting. With random chosen, each of the selected parameters will vary a little just as live singers do. The effect is subtle, but it adds a kind of realism that most vocal processors can't achieve, and it does it automatically for you, so you don't have to tweak at all.
-- VoicePrism Plus review

Sounds like something I could use. Sounds and looks expensive though.

You would need to ask Ashlee Simpson what makes great vocals...

She would point over to a single unit rack labeled "TC Helicon Voice One".

I haven't heard Ashlee... any relation to the other "reality soap star" Simpson? So were any of you guys ironic? Looking at the review of that unit I'd guess at least one of you were?

 

[manning1]

in tune audio. re...mic pre schematic. go to linear technology (maker of op amps) web site and get the LT1115 pdf.
in a few pages is a differential input mic pre schematic.
let me say again UNLESS YOU KNOW ELECTRONICS DONT ATTEMPT TO BUILD THIS> TAKE A COURSE. FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY.
you will need (in tune) a bipolar power supply to run a few of these.
take the output into a line mixer to control the volume going to the sound card. instead of the LT1115 op amp try an OP37 (i prefer this soundwise!)
op amp from analog,com or a max 437 (from maxim semiconductors. rugged as a rock !). if your nice to op amp vendors you can get free samples to try.
haveing built your op amp test bed just sub different samples of op amps
to test which you like the sound of. remember to bypass your power
supply pins on the op amps. and use low thermal noise 1% metal film resistors and low tcr capacitors if you can.
other nice mic pre circuits (more complex) can be found on the net at jlmaudio (nice neve like one), and jensen transformers.
also if you want a quickie mic pre use a analog.com mat02 npn transistor in a common emitter confign and try a 470 kohm(to 1mohm) resistor from collector to base and use a variable pot to set the collector current till the mat02 "rurns on".come out the collector into a output cap then to jack out. if you dont know what i'm talking about.
please dont attempt these circuits. take a electronics course.
try and use op amps with low current noise and voltage noise.

 

[Rokket]

Sounds like something I could use. Sounds and looks expensive though.

I haven't heard Ashlee... any relation to the other "reality soap star" Simpson? So were any of you guys ironic? Looking at the review of that unit I'd guess at least one of you were?

It's her sister. She has her own "reality" show that goes along with her recording her "struggles" as she tries to become a pop star like her sister. She can't sing for shit, and recently was busted doing lip-sync stuff on Saturday Night Live. That's why the jokes are there....