Great River NV-1 Vs. RNP Vs. Grace 101

  • Thread starter Thread starter dudleys100
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My basic rule of thumb is when it comes to the high end, warm mic cool pre or vice versa.

The NTK is a very warm mike because of its tube. Should be the perfect match with the RNP because of this pre having little color and lots of detail at the high end.

The C1 with the RNP is not a good match IMHO. Both are too cold (too sterile) in the high end and things get a little harsh. Because the C1 has a rich bottom you would get some good lo end but the brittleness of the highs may not be appealing.

Actually the Great River, which is warm and the C1 which is hyped toward the upper end, might be a pretty good match.

The Bottle and the Kiwi are class A transformerless Solid state mics and so by nature would be detailed but not warm. That is why they match up well with the Averills which are warmer by nature.

I would test the the Dragonfly with the RNP before settling in on this. I have not heard the Dragonfly but, from reviews, I think it approaches the C1 in character i.e. rich lows but overemphasized highs. This might clash with the RNP.

General guidelines here, anything is good if it sounds good to you.

Good Luck!
 
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Thanks guys. I know this may sound bad and I will get some flack for this but I have been thinking of getting the RNP, and an ART dual MP. I know this is generally considered a no no pre around here (unless sonusman is on the board), but I recently heard a whole album done with soley a dual mp, blueberry, and a dragonfly. And it is honestly one of the coolest albums I have heard. I also may try the VTB-1 and then just keep what works best in the end. I bought the dragonfly but it won't be here for a week. My other option is to go back to the Great River NV-1 and the Dragon fly making for a total cost of $1300 for me. That is really pushing it for me just to have one golden channel but it feels like that may get the best sound. So I am kinda back to square one goes for the pre. I like the idea financialy of the RNP but if it is going to boost my highs, I don't know if I can handle the brittleness you talk of. If anybody has any recomendations as far as pre's for a dragonfly goes let me know. Now I don't understand why the BLUE mics would not be considered warm. We had the U-87, 414, and the two BLUE's all up on the same pre's, yet they were still the fattest warmest of the bunch.
 
Actually an RNP and the ART is not a bad move. The ART applied lightly works in my book.

Another option, man am I gonna catch heck for this recommendation, is the new Focusrite Voicemaster Pro around $599. It's pre is just as detailed as the RNP, however it has built in noise rejection. I was using my C1 within 4 feet of my computer the other night. With my DMP3 pre I would not have been able to use the tracks because of all the fan noise. With the Pro, there was absolutely no fan noise coming through. The mic only recorded my voice, with no background noise. There is some kind of rejection filter or EQ based gate on their pre which makes home recording a dream.

This unit also has multiband harmonics, op compressor (which I use on instruments prefering my RNC for voice), tube saturation, EQ with a breath control, de-esser (from their 430 high end unit) plus a latency free monitoring section so you don't have to monitor your voice coming back out of your computer.

All of the above effects have bypass if you don't want them in the chain. There is also an effects loop for adding in your favorite reverb or other effect during recording but which does not go to tracks. This is great for using a rich reverb in your headphone monitor while you are recording a dry track. There is a secondary loop for other effects too. I put the RNC on this loop.

Last, it has a headphone mix control for balancing the recording tracks with the current vocal or instrument while recording.

Sorry, I went off the deep end but just got my new toy and am a little excited. I think this is a great value for little more than the RNP and it is a Class A preamp. I am matching this with the NTK tube mic as the Focusrite is like the RNP, high end push.

Getting back to your issue. The RNP is a great pre but I would test it against the Dragonfly and a tube mic before making a decision.

Here is the baby.
 

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I've gotta stop reading this message board. When you read through a post and agree that $1500 is pretty decent for a class A preamp and a good mic, you have some problems. Especially when you don't have the money to buy it! If you apply these prices to real life the cost is insane! I remember when i first bought my shure sm58 and ART studio MP, i considered that to be a costly investment. I mean 200 buck for a mic, and 200 bucks for something just to make the mic work? (canadian dollars). I just need someone to give me a LOT of money, anyone else feel like that sometimes?
 
Well, the vocal is the thing. I think the number one priority of most home recorders is to produce a good demo, project or CD. I have been down the path of trying to make professional sounding music for under $500 and it is a myth. You need good monitors, a good preamp and a good mic. These are the core elements of a good sound. Harsh words but its just a fact.

Now, you can have a lot of fun for under $500, and it can be a wonderful learning experience which helps you prepare for understanding why you need better gear. Also, it won't reduce your talent but should improve your engineering skills or music writing. As well it has helped me become a better producer of my own material. So low cost is not a waste of time.

If you want it to sound like a million bucks though you have two choices, buy the gear and learn it, or, once you get down some basic tracks, take them to someone with experience and have them polished.

Man, am I being hard or what? Sunday night, thinking about work tomorrow does it.
 
OK so I have an opportunity to get a NTK for a great price. I may just get both. The Dragonfly is already being bought and if I can get the money together I will get the NTK. That way i can try the two and put them up next to my C-1. Then I will sell the one I like the least. Please offer suggestions of what would be a good pre for both the Dragonfly AND the NTK. Under a thousand please. And also let me know if there are any that would be really good for each seperatly (eg the RNP may be good for the NTK but not for the Dragonfly). Thanks. Ken
 
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dudleys, the Sytek is very different from the Great River. The Sytek MPX-4 was originally developed for the Neotek Elan console. The Sytek pres are transformerless. Using a transformerless design does a few things: 1. It makes the "slew rate" - basically the speed of the signal in the pre – much faster. These types of pres are better for music with great degrees of dynamics and also instruments that have fast transient attacks – such as snare, cymbals, claves, etc. 2. Transformerless micpres also tend to be much more "transparent" in their treatment of the signal being passed through. These types of pres are favored by classical recordists - which is why you'll find mic pres made by companies such as Millennia being widely used to record orchestras. For more info on this, read the Millennia Design Philosophy.

The Great River MP-1NV is on the other end of the spectrum. Not only does it have a transformer on the output stage, but it also has a transformer on the input stage as well. This does a few things: 1. It slows down the slew rate. 2. Gives the signal being passed through the mic pre a certain "color". To a purist, this would literally be known as a type of effect. Perhaps much desired, but an effect nonetheless. The MP-NV mic pres are based on the Neve 1073, which is known for a "big" sound. The term iron which you might see written when referring to these types of pres, means the iron inside the transformer. The majority of transformers are made with iron and nickel. A sound passing through iron has a certain sound. It also has a way of sort of compressing some of the faster frequencies in the signal -so then, the slower elements of the signal "catch up". That's how you get that in your face sound from certain mic pre manufacturers, such as API, Neve and Manley.

Some of the companies with a transformerless designs are Millennia, Earthworks, Grace and Sytek.

Some of the companies with transformer-based designs are API, Neve [and all of the Neve emulators ], Focusrite and Amek [ both of which are decended from Neve lineage and include Rupert Neve as the designer of many of their products ], Manley and the new FMR Audio RNP.

In modern music, where would you want to apply a transformerless mic pre? On all or most classical music, on Jazz and acoustic-based music such as Bluegrass. Also on drum overheads and stereo miking of piano and acoustic guitar. This is actually why it can be good to buy the first transformerless mic pre you buy to be used as a pair.

Some applications for transformer-based mic pres are in music with less overall dynamics and tonal range - which includes Rock, Hip Hop and other forms of popular "energetic" music in which you want to add some "balls" to the sound. The good thing about a pre like the Great River MP-1NV is that, for the most part [ if you're overdubbing ] – you can easily get away with one channel.

I'll post a little about instrumentation and mic pre selection when I've got a little more time.

Hope that helps.
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Thanks, Dan. As a relative newbie myself, I think this is the best explanation of this I've read so far. And it's even better coming from a fellow South Carolinian. With all the ignorance that spews out from this state, it's nice to see some signs of intelligent life:D
p.s.-the listening sessions are great!
 
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