Great link Proveras

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Tekker

Tekker

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But I have a question regarding the 3:1 rule, what if your mic is 1" away from a speaker cone or something, would placing the second mic placed even 4" or 5" away not cause any phasing problems (because that would be "more" than the 3:1 rule)? But it still seems like it would cause phasing problems to me, because it is still really close to the source (and would still be getting a loud signal). So does the 3:1 rule still work when mics are REALLY close to the source?

Also, could someone post a link (or explain) how the M-S matrix unit works? I know what it is, I just have no clue what it actually does or what the benifits are of using one as opposed to tweaking with it in a DAW. I think someone (probably Harvey) posted a link awhile ago but I don't remember where.

-tkr
 
Oooops......wrong button

This was supposed to go in the "Stereo Micing Techniques and Application" thread.


And I'm usually so carefull about that too :D

-tkr
 
I'd really appreciate it if someone could answer my questions. :)

-tkr
 
Hmmmm........

Well I'm sure that if I bring this up to the top enough times then someone will answer......:D

-tkr
 
In the near field of an instrument, all bets are off. The radiation patterns are so screwy, the distant mic could be getting a louder than the near microphone.

As far as M-S, the M (Mid) mic simply picks up whatever is in front of it, and a bit of the stuff from the side. The S (Side) mic is a figure 8, and the S null is aimed where the cardioid is picking up the most signal. The S mic also feeds a third channel, with the phase reversed. By getting the signals perfectly balanced on the Side mic, you can adjust the stereo balance and adjust the stereo spread from fully mono to wide stereo. The principle is based on sum and difference signals. For more details, check out Wes Dooley's site at: http://www.wesdooley.com .
 
Thanx Harvey

But just for the sake of argument, "what if" both mics were getting the same signal would the 3:1 rule still apply to something being recorded an inch away because 3 inches away doesn't seem like it would be far enough away to have no phasing problems.

Thanx again, I'll check out that link. :)

-tkr
 
The 3:1 rule was created with the idea that the mics would never be used inside the near field. In the near field, the sound remains almost constant or goes down as you get closer.

A thought experiment:

Think of a Marshall 4x12 cabinet. Put a mic dead center in the cabinet grille, right up against the grill cloth. As you pull the mic away from the grill, the sound should get softer, right? Nope, as you pull back further, you get more signal from each speaker, so the sound gets louder as you pull away. At least until you're out of the near field, to where the source now resembles a "point source", and then the sound will be reduced as you move back further.

Also, small physical differences in distances between mics will create phasing problems in very audible ranges. !,000 Hz is about one foot long as far as the wave length goes.
 
Thanx again

Do you know of anymore MS sites (none of the pictures were there on that one).

-tkr
 
Harvey Gerst said:
The 3:1 rule was created with the idea that the mics would never be used inside the near field. In the near field, the sound remains almost constant or goes down as you get closer.

A thought experiment:

Think of a Marshall 4x12 cabinet. Put a mic dead center in the cabinet grille, right up against the grill cloth. As you pull the mic away from the grill, the sound should get softer, right? Nope, as you pull back further, you get more signal from each speaker, so the sound gets louder as you pull away. At least until you're out of the near field, to where the source now resembles a "point source", and then the sound will be reduced as you move back further.

Also, small physical differences in distances between mics will create phasing problems in very audible ranges. !,000 Hz is about one foot long as far as the wave length goes.
Click to expand...
Is the volume at its percived max when you further away because all the freq. has the time /distance to gather?..Lows and highs are there?Lows travleing slower than highs is this the optimum "level" in the near feild before it starts to falloff?
This is a very interesting topic...Thanks for bringing it up

Don
 
I believe that lower frequency wavelengths are longer, not slower, so your low end response is lacking when mic'd in the nearfield positions. I try to use drasically different mics when doing stereo rhythm tracks to avoid phasing problems. I have this really cheap unidirectional Shure mic designed for speaking venues, were talking 25 dollar range mic with synthetic diaphragm. It is very sensitive to low volumes and distorts fairly easy and its placed off to one side of the cone center its used in combination with a condesor mic up 4 ft above floor and 7 ft out for ambience and Sm58 type dead center of the cone. The goal I gather is that thich an rich double tracked sound without the double track effort?
Also the walls next to the source and mic positions can drastically change when and what frequencies each mic will pick up...

Peace,
Dennis
 
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