Good Monitor Mixer

[A Drummer]

I'm looking for a good mixer for my four piece band that will allow for four separate headphone mixes. I would like to use a headphone distribution amp as well that should have 4 inputs (from the mixer) and 4 outputs (for the headphones). I've heard that you can use AUX sends to accomplish this but it's hard finding a mixer for a good price with that many AUX sends. Can anyone suggest a mixer or possibly another solution that I might not have thought of?

For the mixer I'm not looking for anything spectacular. This mixer will be strictly for band rehearsals and recording scratch demos into the PC.

Thanks

 

[littledog]

If you can survive without stereo cue mixes, then all you need is a mixer with four aux sends that are simultaneously available on each channel. However, if you also need to use an aux or two for effects (like reverb) then you should look for a mixer with six aux sends.

The Mackie 1604 will not work because while it does have six aux sends, only four of them are available on any one channel at any one time. Mixers that will give you six simultaneous auxes include the Allen&Heath MixWizard, and the StudioMaster Trilogy. Both have models that can be found for under $1000.

Anything much less than that in price will probably not have the required auxes.

 

[A Drummer]

Thanks for the reply littledog.

Yes, that is what I was afraid of. You mention the Mackie. Behringer also has a mixer, the MX2642A which also boasts 6 aux sends, but only four of them are addressable at one time. This one seems the most affordable at $250, especially for what I'm using it for.

Are there any other suggestions you might have for monitoring for four separate band members? Is there anythying I could do with the subgroup outputs?

 

[littledog]

Are there any other suggestions you might have for monitoring for four separate band members? Is there anythying I could do with the subgroup outputs?

Well, there are three things that come to mind:

1) try to get by with less cue mixes (like maybe the bass and drummer share the same mix, guitar and keys, etc.)

2) You could hook up two of the $250 mixers together. Come out of the insert points on the first mixer (with a cable plugged into the insert point only down to the first "click") into the line ins on the 2nd mixer. Now, assuming each mixer has four aux sends, you now have 8 aux's on each channel, which is more than enough. (You could even do some stereo cue mixes with that many.)

3) There are little mix stations being made by a couple of companies that when daisy-chained together allow the musicians to create their own cue mixes. But I have a feeling that by the time you get four of them you will be way over budget.

 

[A Drummer]

That's an interesting idea going to another mixer via the insert points, however, which insert points do you mean? Do you mean each channel have an insert out into line in in the 2nd mixer? Just want to clarify.

Thanks

A couple of other questions I had as well:

1) You mentioned that I may need an AUX send for an effects device. I would need to be able to access an effects device for reverb purposes, but would I have to use an AUX send for this? For rehearsals, honestly the only channel that I'll care to have reverb on will be the lead vocalist. Couldn't I just use the vocalist's channel insert for that instead of waste an AUX send?

2) For those mixers that have internal effects processors, do they allow you to route a certain effect to just one channel (or as little or as many as you wish)?

 

[littledog]

well, we are having a nice little conversation! don't be shy folks, jump right in!

anyway, with the two mixer method you connect the insert point of mixer #1 channel one into the line in of mixer #2 channel one; insert of mixer #1 channel two into line in of mixer #2 channel two, etc.

if you only are going to put reverb on the lead vocal, you could use the insert point - so maybe you could in fact just use a single four aux mixer. good thinking! (see you don't even need me!)

but here's another thing to consider: many inexpensive mixers do not have switchable pre/post aux's. that means some of them are permanently pre-fader, and some permanently post-fader.
This could be a problem if you are going to have someone engineering while you are playing. The cue mixes that are post fader will be affected by whatever fader moves or soloing that the engineer might want to do while, say, checking the snare sound in the middle of a take.

if you use the two cheap mixers, maybe between the two of them you will have enough pre-fader sends.

the internal effects of a mixer can be added in any amount to as few or many channels as you wish. The thing to be careful of, is that sometimes the internal effects are permanently assigned to a specific aux, which means you won't be able to use that particular aux as a cue send. So you need to make sure that there are enough other auxes to do the job.

 

[A Drummer]

I know what you mean about the pre-fader sends. The current mixer I'm using has 1 pre-fader send and 1 post-fader. Believe it or not, the post-fader send works OK for a cue mix, because of the headphone distribution amp I have. The band member who has that AUX can turn their amp up as loud as they need to hear. It's less than ideal as compared to a pre-fader send, but it works. The only engineer is myself so while we're playing, no one is touching the board, so that shouldn't be a problem. What are some more of your experiences (bad or good) with using post-fader AUX's as cue mixes? I'm sure it's not totally uncommon for artists to use these like this is it?

Because I do have this other mixer that has one pre-fader send, I could do as you recommend and use the insert points off the main mixer. That would give me three pre-fader sends. The only thing is that I was hoping through this little adventure to lose all my other equipment and just have the one mixer fit my needs. I think I'm realizing that in order to do that I'll probably have to buy something more expensive like the A&H or Studiomaster that you mentioned.

Only thing about the Behringer MX2642A ($250 mixer) is that there is no insert points on the subgroups, so I would not have the flexibility of putting reverb on all the vocal tracks (we do have some BGV), which would be nice. I have to look at the Mackie 1604 to see if it has that flexibility (that board is a little steep in price though). Another thing bad about this board is that it does not have master AUX send volume control. This could pose a problem if I want to use post fader sends as cue mixes, right?

Another question for you, the reverb unit that I wish to use with this setup is a powered mixer with a reverb effects processor built-in. That unit does have effects in/out (and footswitch out - what is that for?) jacks that I was thinking I could use with the main mixer (insert). How would I hook that up, or could I even?

The answer to that last question pretty much decides whether or not I'll be looking to buy a mixer with built-in effects, or if I buy a mixer without those, but have to purchase a separate effects processor. If I can leverage what I already have in that powered mixer, I'll be able to save some money.

Thanks so much littledog for your assistance here. It has really helped me out.

Nate

 

[littledog]

If no one is going to be touching the mixer while recording, then pre-fader vs. post-fader is sort of a non-issue. The nice thing about the Studiomaster Trilogy is that all six aux sends can be made prefader. The A&H only lets you set up 4 of them as prefader, but in your scenario that's all you would need.

Whether there is a master aux control shouldn't affect your signal at all if you are using the insert points. That only affects the sum of all the channel aux's. As far as using the post-fader outs as extra cue sends, you don't need a master aux volume assuming that your headphone preamp has some kind of volume control (most do).

You initially said you might only need reverb on the lead vocal. Now you want it on the BGV too! Stop changing the rules on me!

You are going to need either a semi-decent reverb box or a reverb plug-in at some point. You don't need to spend a ton of money, but i have no idea if the reverb in your powered mixer is either accessible from an outside mixer (without my seeing it) or if it is of useable quality (without my hearing it). Usually the effects in/out jacks on those mixers is for patching in an external effects unit, not patching out the internal effects. But there might be a way to do it - i just can't say without looking.