Good Mic for Violin

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MISTERQCUE

MISTERQCUE

Not Just Anutha Brutha
Wrote a funk-jazz piece which includes Bass,lead,drums,keyboard sax and violin. Tried to produce a pure clean sound with the mic's i have (coupla 57's and 58's ,Rode NT1 and a AkgC1005) for the violin,but it's just not sounding right. Would an acoustic p/u
mic be good for violin? Any recommendations for a good violin mic? Budget between $300-$400. Also what type of positioning is good for the violin. As always, any and all suggestions are truly appreciated!
 
A stero pair of as transparent omnidirectional mics as you can afford, placed about 2' in front of the violin player and in chest height should do the trick. The recording room should be live so no extra reverb is required as effects quickly takes away the "real" violin sound and makes it sound almost like an electric violin. I could argue that small diafragm condensors is preferd to large diafragm ones as they have a quicker response and thus better chance of recording the transitients better.

Good luck

/Ola
 
Might look into a used Beyerdynamic ribbon mic.

Also might want to look into that Oktava ML19 from The Sound Room. I haven't heard/used it myself or have not heard anyone's opinion on it. I at least suggest you talk to Taylor Johnson from The Sound Room and see what he thinks of it, period; and for your application(s); that is if you decide to look into ribbon mics at all.
 
I've gotten a few good violin tones (IMHO) with a PZM, some tape, and a wall. If you're interested, I'll try to decribe it with a lttle detail since the BBS Search is Out Of Order.
 
Thx R.E.! I'm interested in the PZM. I don't
know how to explain this,but I'm using the
rhythm section as a syncopated back-drop jazz-funk sound to offset the violin's classical-jazz solo's and melodies. The back ground is smooth,but i cannot get that chamber-airy (not to 'Verby)sound to differentiate from the rhythm section,especially with the mics I have now.
I'm not to familiar with the PZM, but we are gonna go back in this Sat nite,and try it again.Any addtl info on the PZM would be greatly appreciated. (I will also give the Octava a try,after i figure out a way to steal it from my brothers house) Thanks.
 
Yeah, back in the days when jnorman used to check in from time to time, he talked a lot about good results using ribbons on instruments like violins (not that you're interested, but flutes as well, if I remember rightly). About the same time, people talked about using PZMs attached to the wall for strings, especially cello. Not that you're in a position to acquire these items by tomorrow mind...
 
Perhaps I can rent 1 for the nite or increase
my budget and try purchase a used one
(good idea??). Willing to try any and all within reason.
 
In a live room, have the violinist stand (prefered) or sit in a chair next to a wall, in playing position, with their shoulders perpendicular to the wall, and just far out enough from the wall to avoid contact with the bow to the wall. Then, tape the PZM mic onto the wall 1-4' (experiment) above the violin.

To increase the high-end frequency response of the PZM mic, do the above in a corner with the PZM butted-up to the wall in the corner and with the nose of the PZM condenser element facing the corner.

However, it seems the later just sounds like... Well... A violin being played in the corner of a room unless the room is decently big, has a fairly high ceiling, and good sounding acoustics is not such a bad characteristic either. Damn! My live room (oh, I mean my living room) doesn't have any those characteristics. The best thing it has going for it is a vaulted ceiling.
 
Thanks again R.E. .Unfortunetly,could'nt purchase or rent a PZM for 2-nite(but mite be able to borrow 1 Tues).I borrowed a friends Neumann Kms105 and the violinist bought in a AudioTech AT4047. Now mind you,
my basement studio is approx 40ft long,25ft wide yet only approx 8ft hi.I had her stand (the violinist)on the far left side of the wall and duct-taped both mics at the top do 2 test recordings.The Neuman was clear,yet the sound was too electric and the AT just couldn't provide me with the tone i wanted (even though the others thought it sounded great,but I'm 1 of those pain-in the @asses that cannot be satisfied until I hear what I sonically envisioned ;)Finally,a friend suggested that since the ceiling was too low
maybe my taping the mics at the top could not provide me with that particular sound i was looking for.I'm no mic expert(bass player/song-writer),but my question is: Is it worth borrowing the PZM knowing my ceilings in the basement is only 7 1/2 to 8ft or can you recommend a good mic for violin (and to put home-girl in a seating position) that's basically used for string instruments? We're goin' back in tues-nite and the band is threatnin'bodily damage on me until i accept the sound of the violinist.Again thankyou.
 
Well what did you not like about the tone you were getting with the 4047?

As far as if it's worth borrowing a PZM... In my opinion, it's worth it if you still haven't found the sound you're looking for with the 105 ans 4047.

With the PZM, try what I suggested, and if you don't like that, then maybe try taping it to the ceiling as you suggested; try it in the middle of the room though.

And if you're still not getting the sound you're looking for, then it might be safe to say the sound you're looking for may come from using a ribbon mic.
 
Misterqcue - With such a large room, may I suggest that you place the violin player about 12-13' from the back wall and in the centre between the side walls. This to get the first reflections from the side- and back wall to the mics at the same time. Then rent a stereo pair of Earthworks QTC1 (or other transparent small condensor omni mics with fast responce) and place them 2' infront of her in playing height. Keep the side walls fairly live but not live enough go get flutter echoes. Place diffusors/absorbers on the floor and ceeling above, and between, the player and the mics to try to get rid of the early reflection from the floor and ceeling (they're too early).

Depending o how the room sounds, you might benefit from putting diffusors on the back wall or simply placing two pieces of drywall in a slight (10 degrees) angle to bounce the reflections from the back wall away from the mics all together.

The fron wall should be kept live unless you feel that the reflection from it comes too late (it should arrive with something like a 60ms delay, which is on the limit to too late).

A friend of mine who records a lot of folk-music violins uses AKG C414 B-ULS (not the vocal version) set to omni and he has produced very "real" violin sound. He uses the placement I described above and it seems to work.

Let us know how it worked out

/Ola
 
Thank's guys! Will try again Tues nite. Let cha' know what happens.
 
Hello OLA! We cancelled Tuesday's recording and are going in tonite. I'll give you the
results after we finished! Again thank you!
 
I have to put that pzm on my list.used one once, was very impressed
 
I have a buddy who is a great violinist. I have always used a CAD E200 Equiteck large condensor about 2 ft in front and 1 and a half feet above his seated position, facing a treated wall. This combination gives me lots of wood. That is what he prefers. Not just string.It's a great vocal mic and general condenser. I found my AKG's didn't do the job.Try one out. It has 3 position polar patterns, pad and can operate 48v or self.
 
Good Day to Ola and the venerable R.E.!
Sat nite was adventure just ryung to find some PZM's but to no avail. I stopped over
at Apple Studio's and borrowed a coupla Shure
KSM32 studio condenser mics. Prior to the bands arrival,I purchased 3 slabs of 7'x 5'
of drywalls to cover up some dead spots on the left side of my basement studio and used some foam between the slabs and the wall.This was basically the area that the violinist would be performing at( this area is approx 11'from the front of the basement and basically between both sides of the basement walls).I then placed one mic overhead 'bout a foot and a half above the violin(who will be in a standing position) and another mic(Now this may seem weird!) on a stand duct-taped pointing towards the violins bridge.I know have mic'ing above and directly to the right of the violin which is approx 9 ft from the left side of the wall.
Violinist walks in and says "What kind of Freaking Mic configuration do you have here?" I just informed her that I took some advice from several members here at this BBS
and injected a lil experimentation.Well it went well! The Mic's provided an open airy response clean and thorough (The mics needed phantom power so we plugged them into some Arts and it still came out warm) WE also tried different mic angles and it still came out with that pure violin sound! Now i never used these mics b-4 but i was impressed. We couldn't get our hands on any Earthwks.mics
But these Shures sure did capture the warmth and classical nuances of the melodic and solo
performance of our violinist. Again as always, to you 2 guys thanks for your priceless suggestions!
 
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