Good drums, Sound bad on tape.

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PushtoVent

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My drummer plays a DW kit, and has it all tuned up nice, and it sounds great when we play. I tried to record it, and it sounds awful. I have an MP3 posted online here,
and I wondered if anyone could tell me what I'm doing wrong. Especially the snare drum, which sounds the worst out of everything. I'm hoping someone can tell me something. I use an Audix Mic package. Through a Behringer Mixer, into a Tascam US-122 recorded into Sound Forge.

P.S. We know the drummer sucks. I just want to improve the tone of the recording.
 
Whoa, someone get that guy a metrenome...

Your problem might be mic placement -- what is your mic placement? The bass drum seems a bit too loud in the mix. Also, try boosting some lower frequencies in the bass track. Same with the snare srum -- sounds a bit too high pitched.

Take my advice as you will, I'm just learning how all this stuff works as well, so I'm not an expert. :)
 
I've got an AKG D 112 about 3 inches away from the beater head, just below center, facing directly at it, the Audix mics, clipped onto the toms, with their connectors, about an inch above, and about an inch in from the rim, pointing at the center of the toms, a mic placed above the snare, about 3 inches, facing the center. A mic under the hi-hats, facing the pole, about 5 inches, and two overheads in the center facing opposite sides, for phase issues. The Snare is EQ'd 5 (as high as possible) on low, 5 on Low Mid, 2 on High Mid, and -3 on High. The Bass Drum I like the sound of, so I'm not too worried about the sound on that guy. Thanks for the reply! And yes, someone needs to get him a Metrenome, I've been saying that for months, but no-one wants to listen.
 
the bass drum needs less click......sounds like not only did you put the mic inside the bass drum, but you added a lot of click........it has no low end whatsoever..........try putting more distance between your mics and your toms/snare. hi hats are loud......you dont typically need to mic them. rather than using a mic on the hi hat, try putting a second mic outside the kick drum.......either right on the drum, or up to a few feet away.
 
The sound is remarkably close to the drum sound on Korn's first album...except I think you got the toms sounding better than Ross Robinson could have.
 
The timing really needs work. I'd start the guy on a click track now while you're getting the sounds so he at least gets in a little practice.

I'm really not a fan of close micd drums. So take that into consoderation. That is a really clicky bass drum. However I know a lot of people that really want that sound.

Overall it sounds thin. The cymbals seem harsh as well. I'm not sure what your overheads are like? Look at using an X/Y or the Modified Spaced Pair (or Recorderman) setup. I prefer the latter. Ditch the high hat mic. I've never heard any drums where I thought I needed more hi-hat, often I need more cowbell, but never hats.

Get a good picture of the kit with the over heads then start placing the close mics where they are needed. On the snare you might try underneath or just backing up a bit from it and aiming at the center of thead.
 
Get a good picture of the kit with the over heads then start placing the close mics where they are needed. On the snare you might try underneath or just backing up a bit from it and aiming at the center of thead.

<b>Spankenstein</b>, I tried underneath and it sounded even worse, I'll have to try backing up a bit. Thanks a lot to everyone for commenting, especially <b>elevate</b> as Korn is my favorite band of all time. ha ha.

With practice comes better sound, and soon I'll get this all down.
Thank you all.

(p.s. keep the comments coming, I love to try new things)
 
What kind of heads is he using? Because some heads record better than others.
 
TheCasualRobot said:
What kind of heads is he using? Because some heads record better than others.
Click to expand...

That I would have to check on today, I want to say Remo, and the snare is the one that has all the little tiny holes punched into it around the diameter.
 
uhh, the mic under the hi-hat is probably not a good idea. i would mic it above it with some distance from it. also, the overheads...."in the center facing outwards"?. do you mean like an xy configuration. b/c sounds like what your going for b/c it reduces phase problems and the two mics are in the center. but, if you just have to mics facing different directions in the center you are gonna create alot of problems.
 
but....weather your a "fan" of close miced drums is more of an opinion than a rule really. they both have different sounds. its just a matter of doing either one correctly.
 
btr31 said:
uhh, the mic under the hi-hat is probably not a good idea. i would mic it above it with some distance from it. also, the overheads...."in the center facing outwards"?. do you mean like an xy configuration. b/c sounds like what your going for b/c it reduces phase problems and the two mics are in the center. but, if you just have to mics facing different directions in the center you are gonna create alot of problems.
Click to expand...


Yes, two mics in an XY config. I've read a lot on the subject, and obviously you can't just read and be a pro, so all this messing around, and you guys are helping tons. Thanks for commenting, and if you have any more tips, I'd love to hear them.
 
PushtoVent said:
I've got an AKG D 112 about 3 inches away from the beater head, just below center, facing directly at it.
Click to expand...

that is why there is NO low end on your kick.


Also some of your toms sound too high pitched. what are the dimensions of your toms?
 
Looks like your snare head is an Evans Vented head. Gets a BIG sound.
Tell your drummer to pick up some Evans G1's or G2's. Coated G1's are what I'm trying now, and they sound fantastic! Better than any Remo drumhead I've ever heard. G2's are better for your hard-hitters. I don't know what style of music you play, but if it's hard rock, get the G2's, they'll sound great.
 
as far as a snare head goes, not sure what your using. but, if we are sugesting heads i would sugest the remo powerstroke 3 for snare head. i know alot of people like to be rebelious and get away from remo but it is seriously the best snare head i've ever worked with. and i got the idea of it from another pro-drummer who had TREMENDOUS success with it in recording. and it seems to be a big hit with alot of drummers when it came out. so, i'd check it out. also, i dont see how your d112 set up with not have any low end in it. i use a similiar set up with my d112 and usually it has enough low end. sure, you can eq the mic to go between more click and more low end. but, a d112 usually captures alot of low end in most settings. the key is....there has to be low end to start with. how do you have your head tuned? high? BAD low? GOOD. what kind of head do you have on your bass drum? i have had good success with the aquarian super kicks. but, as long as it is a nice head and not your stock one....it should be able to get some good low end if you tune it right.
 
PushtoVent said:
...The Snare is EQ'd 5 (as high as possible) on low, 5 on Low Mid, 2 on High Mid, and -3 on High.
Click to expand...
I agree with Spankenstein for the same reason -don't care for overly dull close miced drum style especially for snare, so again, a grain of salt...:rolleyes: Start with the O/H's and build form there. From the intro, the toms appear hot and underdamped. This is carrying into the whole track, ringing and triggering off the snare.

What's going on with the snare eq? It looks like you're boosting everything -with a little high cut? Can we assume you don't want crisp? Mic pointing at the center pushes it in that direction too.
How about loosing all the eq and truning it up and just use more hi cut?

Again, lots of assumptions here on my part. But you did say 'sounds good in the room. That leads me to think you might not be into the dull-close mic thing after all. :D
Wayne
 
Thanks a lot guys, I think I'm going to end up printing this page out, and going to town on the drums. Unfortunately I only manage to get over there about two times a week, but this time around, we should get a pretty nice sound. I'll re-post a sample after I apply all these changes (granted we like the sound) and you guys can tell me what you think about it all. It's hard to believe there are this many people who just want to help someone out. Thank you very much.

Chris Masters
P.S. Don't stop now that I got all sappy! Keep 'em coming!
 
Hey Pushtovent,

How many mics were you using and where were they placed? It sounds like you've got a mic on the snare, each tom, kick, and two overheads (which is good). Also, did you use any muffling?

You say they sound good in person, but bad on tape. To me they don't sound like they're tuned for the best sound they can get. Even the cheapest Pacific DW drums have potential for great sound (I have a set I use live). I might try putting the overhead mics out in front of the drums to pick up the sound of the whole set - if they sound good out there. The toms are tuned pretty tight, so they will cut through a bit at a distance, which you may perceive as a better sound, but they probably don't sound so great up close where your mics are. So you can detune them for a better close-mic sound or you can move the overheads away and rely more on a distant sound.

The overheads sound pretty good to me, they seem to pick up the cymbals well.

I'd definitely get the kick mic either up against the kick head, or if you've got a hole, play around with positioning the mic inside. It sounds like it's very clicky, with no thump at all. Getting it up against the head will boost the low end, if you're looking for that sound. If it's still clicky, try putting a towel or LIGHTLY resting a pillow against one or both heads. This cuts down a bit on the "ring" making the boom a little more apparent.

As for the toms, the high tom sounds choked (relative to the other toms), so I'd try detuning it (especially the top head). The other toms sound good (I'd personally detune them a bit - more so the top heads, but that's my preference), so I'd maybe play around with the placement of the mics. Try putting them about an inch or so off the top head and pointing them toward the center. This will balance between a deep sound and the attack of the drum. For the snare, it sounds kind of choked by the snares, so try loosening them to let the drum "breathe" a bit more.

Other than that, some compression and a bit of EQ and reverb will get them nicely in the ballpark for most styles of music.

Play around and post some more stuff!
 
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