Good cheap MIC for vocals (rap)

[BrotherAli]

Well my friends have just started putting music together and have been using a mic like this :

Obviously we need to upgrade. I did some research last night and saw that in general a large diagram condenser microphone would be what we need. The purpose of the microphone will be to record vocals (rap) at home.

What we are planning to buy is the ART Tube MP Project (with usb connected to computer).

My friend was originally looking at the Behringer C1 microphone for $40. Also a Behringer B1 on craigs for $75.

Our budget is limited, any suggestions? If any of my information is wrong please correct me I have just been researching mic technology for 8 hrs and could definitely be wrong. From what I read hear Behringer is not a very respected company but, please understand our low budget.

Suggestions are really appreciated!

 

[The Cancers]

The stuff you are looking at will work. May not sound great, but it'll work.
There are much better mics for slightly more money, but I don't think, at this point on the recording learning curve, it's gonna matter much. I'd go with the cheap ass Behringer and learn how to make it sound the best you can. Then worry about what a good mic is.
Something I'd recommend getting at least a general grasp of is gain staging. You'll get the best sound out of whatever equipment you're using if you do it right.
Check here for some great tutorials:
www.independentrecording.net
That's SouthsideGlen's homepage, and he's got some really helpful information.
Have fun

 

[darrin_h2000]

Really the only choice for rap is the Shure SM7 is it...and it is affordable too.

 

[BrotherAli]

Really the only choice for rap is the Shure SM7 is it...and it is affordable too.

But isnt that a dynamic mic? Will I need the ART tube then?

 

[darrin_h2000]

Yes it is a Dynamic...Condencers will pop when you rap into them...and resist the idea of buying anything ART or cheap bottomfeeder stuff...that tube stuff at that price point adds noise...go for a decent clean preamp if you dont have enough for a real tube pre where the tube is more than just a light to tell you its on or not.

 

[BrotherAli]

Ok, but with a dynamic mic do I need an amp? I was under the impression that they dont need any phantom power? Also the Shure SM7 is definitely not in my price range. Im looking at around $100. We were using that mic I posted above, I hope $100 could atleast get us an upgrade. The art tube+C1 mic would be around $100 total (art tube is around $50 used)

 

[The Cancers]

You need a preamp to amplify the signal that the microphone sends. The tube MP, because it has a preamp in it and a USB connection, was going to function as your preamp and your audio interface (to your computer). The signal sent by a bare microphone is tiny. The preamp boosts that signal (ideally cleanly, without adding any noise). This is the case for any sort of microphone. The phantom power for a condenser mic has to do with the way the microphone picks up sound, and is not necessary for a dynamic mic.
So, however you're getting your signal into your computer, make sure it has XLR inputs, and it will most likely function as a preamp. I don't think the ART unit you wanted to buy is going to sound awful. It won't sound great, but it'll be a cheap step up from where you're at now.
If, on the other hand, you want professional, great sounding vocals, then there is no answer to your original question. The SM7B, though, is a darn good mic, and will stay a darn good mic as the rest of your equipment and your abilities get better.

 

[The Cancers]

Ok, but with a dynamic mic do I need an amp? I was under the impression that they dont need any phantom power? Also the Shure SM7 is definitely not in my price range. Im looking at around $100. We were using that mic I posted above, I hope $100 could atleast get us an upgrade. The art tube+C1 mic would be around $100 total (art tube is around $50 used)

There are several different ART products with similar names in that price range, so make sure you're getting the one you want.
Like I said, go with cheap if that's all you can afford, just do it knowing that, as you get better able to use recording equipment, and as your ears get better, you're gonna end up wanting to spend more to get better results.
Your mic technique and placement are gonna be vital skills for you to work on if you are using a condenser for rap vocals because, as was said above, you're gonna get a lot of pops and clicks and whatnot on your hard consonant sounds where you're shooting out a lot of air.
Pointing the mic at the vocalist's mouth coming in from an angle, where when they go "P" it doesn't shoot a blast of air straight at the mic, can help.

 

[guitar zero]

If you can not afford the shure sm7, then just get a shure sm57, or audix i5. Both dynamic mics that are similar, affordable and will sound good. The i5 is more versatile imo. For rap, a dynamic will perform better.

 

[meatbeater]

yeah this is the first time i heard you cant use a condser mic to rap because it will pop. a shure is good but its more for a performing or loud screaming type.

look jayz outcast, kanye all use condenser in the studio not dynamic you just got to get a good one.

 

[BrotherAli]

Thanks for all the help so far guys. Seems like opinions are kinda split. We wont be able to buy a mic yet so hopefully with more opinions ill be able to decide.

So... anyone else?

 

[thajeremy]

I own an SM7 but I have only used if for recording Rap once or twice....I use an ADK TC GK-67 for female RnB or Rappers, and an ADK Model TL for most male rappers...not saying the SM7 doesnt work but never heard anyone say that you shouldnt use a condenser.

anyway...to the OP....your question was about a "Good cheap mic"....you will have to pick between the two....you want good or do you want cheap?

 

[darrin_h2000]

The spit generated will ruin the condensers and there will be alot of plosives...if you are Jayz or somebody like that you can afford to ruin a few mics...but if you wish to record many tracks you should stick with a Dynamic.

 

[dgatwood]

The spit generated will ruin the condensers and there will be alot of plosives...if you are Jayz or somebody like that you can afford to ruin a few mics...but if you wish to record many tracks you should stick with a Dynamic.

Realistically, there's usually so much metal between you and the capsule that spit won't get within an inch of the capsule....

Mouth
[many, many inches of air space]
Pop filter
[several inches of air space]
Microphone grille layer 1
Microphone grille layer 2
[an inch or more of air space]
capsule

As far as I can tell, it's entirely an urban legend that using a condenser mic for rap would ruin it... unless you stick the mic right up to your mouth for beatboxing or something similarly idiotic, in which case, yeah, that would be pretty dumb, but it would be equally dumb to do that with a dynamic mic. No mic is designed to handle that much air motion without the risk of damage.

Either way, moisture won't ruin the diaphragm of a condenser. Gold doesn't oxidize in the presence of spit or any other moisture (unless your spit contains halogen, nitro-hydrochloric acid, potassium cyanide, or mercury). Moisture can, however, make it temporarily misbehave.

Use proper microphone technique---good placement, pop filter, etc.---and stop worrying about breaking the mic. It's not going to happen. Plosives? Maybe, but again, if you're getting that, you're doing it wrong. The mic should not be in the direct path of primary air motion. Ever.

 

[Jidis]

And stay far away from that B1 thing you mentioned.

I bought one used to get a pair of C2s it was being sold with and actually wanted to have one of the "overly bright" Chinese LDCs in my collection. It's awful sounding. The C2s were also really poorly matched and sort of "ssshishy" sounding, so I'm not sure I'd go Behringer if I were purchasing a first general purpose mic.

I second the SM57 recommendation. It isn't the mic of Presidents for nothing, and it's the kind of thing you can always keep using after you get something nicer. I was primarily recording rap for a while, and I hate to say it, but the visual factor plays a pretty big part in it. I kept an Audio Technica LDC upside-down on a boom in front of my drums for overhead and half the people I had in the studio would stop there and start freestyling into it on the way in. Good dynamics on a nice pre that are properly processed can sound really nice and they often aren't as picky about the sources. The suggested SM7B and the EV RE20 are more professional looking options for more money, but you can also disguise a 57 with the overpriced A2WS windscreen and/or maybe even shockmount it. My RE20 shockmount fits the 57s and looks pretty cool (or at least weird).

Good luck on it!

 

[BrotherAli]

I am sorry I dont know my technology very well. With the shure's would I need a pre amp? Or could I connect it directly into my mic port on the sound card using the xlr to 3.5mm?

 

[The Cancers]

What you have to understand is that if you plug into your soundcard's mic port, you are plugging into a preamp. The soundcard has a preamp in it, meant to amplify the very weak signal that any microphone sends. Anytime you plug a microphone into something and it results in sounds you can hear, there is a preamp involved. So, no, you don't need an external preamp, but the preamp (along with the analog to digital converters) in a consumer soundcard is not designed for music making, and it will give you some really low quality results. But, it's free to try, so go ahead and plug a mic in there. Play around with it and you might be satisfied with the sound you get.

 

[darrin_h2000]

I am sorry I dont know my technology very well. With the shure's would I need a pre amp? Or could I connect it directly into my mic port on the sound card using the xlr to 3.5mm?

You will still need to use a preamp...just not phantom power...the dynamics will give you the best results...most of the time the big time rappers might get thier pictures took or a bit of video done with a big LDC but that is just for image...an LDC is going to sound too unforgiving to put in front of a nonsinger.

And that thing about there being a bunch if metal between the spitting singer and the capsule varies between model to model...with a dynamic you dont have that problem

 

[Shadow_7]

Even with the spit blocked, you still have humidity issues. Granted that dynamics are geared for this type of use. And are more tolerant of it. You can still use an LDC, you'd just need to shield it via pop filter / distance. Which might not be usable in that form for you live / on stage. Or however you plan on using the mic in practice. Plus other issues, proximity effect, handling noise, yada yada yada...

It really depends on how you want to use it. Studio environment, well treated room, mic stand plus shock mount plus pop filter, no problem use an LDC. Live on stage in a noisy environment, no mercy, use a dynamic, you'll keep at least part of what's left of your sanity. And not be out a small fortune as well. Accidents happen, and other things that aren't as accidental.

You'll need a preamp. Granted that a lot of devices already have one, despite the details on the box.