Going with your gut - When Thinking Too Much is Bad Thing!

[johnsuitcase]

I was recently reading 'How we Decide' by Jonah Leher, in which he makes the case that complex decisions (ones with more than say 4 variables) are best made by going with our gut.

I was thinking about this in regard to recording. Often, when I am recording a band, I don't try multiple set-ups, mics, preamps, etc. I just grab the ones that seem right, put them where they seem to belong, and go. 90% of the time it works, and the times it doesn't I usually make one adjustment and I'm good.

I don't say this to brag, but more as an observation. I've been doing this stuff a long time, and there were many times that I spent entire days trying to get a snare mic'd the way I wanted it.

But, over time, your brain sort of 'gets it' and you just can feel the right thing to do.

My advice would be to try things, think hard, but if you get a gut feeling that something might work, don't hesitate to try it. It seems that more often than not, it will!

 

[dintymoore]

One of the most limiting things you can do is think in words. Dogs don't.

I've made an effort in the last decade or so to not have words or language going on in my head, to just think without any words. It's not easy to do but I think it's faster and clearer.

All that thinking in your head when you grab a mic, like "ya, that's a condensor and that will pick up the highs good", all that shit, is shit. So I try not to have any words going on and live totally in the now like my dogs do. I don't buy it that we're smarter than dogs. Different yes, smarter... I don't buy it. And when you think like that everything is gut feeling like you're talking about.

So my suggestion is to turn off all the words going on in your head. It may take years to do.

Whenever I don't trust my gut it bites me in the ass.

 

[johnsuitcase]

Whenever I don't trust my gut it bites me in the ass.

Ditto! It seems our subconscious is sometimes more knowledgeable than we think!

 

[The Cancers]

I don't buy it that we're smarter than dogs.
Whenever I don't trust my gut it bites me in the ass.

So... is that why my dog bites himself in the ass? Because his gut doesn't do it for him?

 

[F_a_d_e]

I've made an effort in the last decade or so to not have words or language going on in my head, to just think without any words. It's not easy to do but I think it's faster and clearer.

While I'm not arguing that dogs have "intelligence", I don't think it is necessarily wise to sink to their level intellectually... that is why we have evolved and adapted to language in the first place.

Otherwise, I would agree with you both. Going with your gut is important in just about everything, from sports to dating, production and recording included.

 

[johnsuitcase]

While I'm not arguing that dogs have "intelligence", I don't think it is necessarily wise to sink to their level intellectually... that is why we have evolved and adapted to language in the first place.

Otherwise, I would agree with you both. Going with your gut is important in just about everything, from sports to dating, production and recording included.

The book I referenced makes the case that we use our whole brains to make decisions, but when we try to consciously analyze a situation, we tend to get overwhelmed or give too much weight to one factor or another.

It should be noted that following your gut isn't a magical solution. A novice at something will often do the wrong thing by following their gut. That kind of whole brain intelligence comes from doing something a long time, learning about it, observing. But there does come a time when you don't have to think about what mic is the right one for this particular instrument on this song. You just kind of know.

I think that's what makes an experienced engineer so valuable. They can get the sound in one step, maybe two. Whereas a novice may take days, or never get it at all.

 

[Villain S Deeds]

One of the most limiting things you can do is think in words. Dogs don't.

I've made an effort in the last decade or so to not have words or language going on in my head, to just think without any words. It's not easy to do but I think it's faster and clearer.

All that thinking in your head when you grab a mic, like "ya, that's a condensor and that will pick up the highs good", all that shit, is shit. So I try not to have any words going on and live totally in the now like my dogs do. I don't buy it that we're smarter than dogs. Different yes, smarter... I don't buy it. And when you think like that everything is gut feeling like you're talking about.

So my suggestion is to turn off all the words going on in your head. It may take years to do.

Whenever I don't trust my gut it bites me in the ass.

Dude! That's so... profound. Rock on.

 

[dintymoore]

One thing I've noticed is that when someone asks me something and my gut tells me "ya!" or "no fuckin' way!", and then I think about it and logic the opposite, it usually turns out that my initial reaction was right.

Because of that, I've learned to go with my first instincts.

So... is that why my dog bites himself in the ass? Because his gut doesn't do it for him?

You might try some flea shampoo on your furry buddy!

While I'm not arguing that dogs have "intelligence", I don't think it is necessarily wise to sink to their level intellectually...

I do draw the line at dragging my ass on the carpet in the living room to scratch it - I refuse to do that!

... that is why we have evolved and adapted to language in the first place.

I'm more talking about being able to do both - the human thing of using language to define things accurately, and the dog thing of hardwiring your brain to your body without words in between.

If you watch Buddy Rich play, I think that that's a big part of why he had the technique he had. It was hardwired.

 

[miroslav]

... turn off all the words going on in your head.

What about if you're hearing voices?



I usually "fumble" my way around the studio...without really "thinking out" every move. Like I have several guitar amps...and when I'm going to cut some leads, most times I just pick an amp, rather then trying them all out, or thinking about WHY I'm picking THAT amp.
Then, if I can't get the tones I was hearing in my head (same as the voices )...I'll try another amp or stop and think about the "why" and "what" of it all.

One thing though...after you spend a lot of time recording (or doing anything)...your "muscle memory" takes over for a lot of stuff. I don't think people are actually following words in their head.
The time that usually happens most is when we are confronted by an unusual situation, some puzzle or something we have doubts about...then we follow the words in our head.
That said...there are times when it's good to sit down and analyze what you are doing and why...'cuz that's how you learn and then from there you can deviate to something new.

 

[grimtraveller]

I don't buy it that we're smarter than dogs. Different yes, smarter... I don't buy it.

Less of the "we're", if you don't mind !

The day a dog beats me at chess and writes a "Strawberry Fields Forever" or a "Pretty vacant" and plays guitar with it's teeth, I'll concede !


Funnilly enough, not long ago, I was driving behind this car and I thought the dog in front was driving as I couldn't see a driver ! Then I realized it was a left hand drive and the dog was on the right and the driver was tiny and this being London..........

 

[johnsuitcase]

The day a dog beats me at chess and writes a "Strawberry Fields Forever" or a "Pretty vacant" and plays guitar with it's teeth, I'll concede !

Chess is an example used in the book, too!

He gives the example of computers vs. people, and why a computer has such difficulty beating a grand champion (not that they can't of course, but the computing power thrown at the problem is just huge!)

A grand master's brain is able to parse the board into familiar bits, and bring up into his consciousness the appropriate strategies, etc. A grand master is only able to compute the next few moves consciously, whereas a computer can basically play the game to its conclusion given any move.

As far as dogs being 'smarter,' that goes to how you define smart. If we skip process and go to results, there are certain problems a dog can solve very quickly that would give a human much more trouble. Finding someone who's wandered into the woods, for example.

And of course, if we define the ultimate goal as simple happiness, then dogs surely are pretty smart!

 

[Chibi Nappa]

Often, when I am recording a band, I don't try multiple set-ups, mics, preamps, etc. I just grab the ones that seem right, put them where they seem to belong, and go. 90% of the time it works, and the times it doesn't I usually make one adjustment and I'm good.

I really have to agree. Do this stuff long enough, and you get a picture in your head of the sound and then just... make it. When I was starting out I'd get a nagging feeling of "well, there are all of those other mics in the case. What if I'm making a mistake not trying to see what they do?" Now I put up a mic on instinct. Usually it sounds like the image in my head and I just roll with it.

 

[grimtraveller]

Do this stuff long enough,

And therein lies the key. As humans, we have the dual ability to both analyse in some detail and then make a decision or instinctively decide on a direction and go with it.
With recording, I find I do alot of thinking when I'm not recording. Obviously it's having some effect coz when it comes to the actual recording, I don't have to think much. Grab this, set that and wow ! Away we go.

 

[gecko zzed]

I really have to agree. Do this stuff long enough, and you get a picture in your head of the sound and then just... make it. When I was starting out I'd get a nagging feeling of "well, there are all of those other mics in the case. What if I'm making a mistake not trying to see what they do?" Now I put up a mic on instinct. Usually it sounds like the image in my head and I just roll with it.

Which is what I tend to do. To describe that as working on instinct or gut is not unreasonable, but it tends to disguise what has gone on before.

It's a bit like driving a car . . . after some years of experience, you tend not to think consciously about the process of driving (when to brake, how far to turn the wheel, how fast to take a corner, when it is safe to overtake and so on), the process of driving has been relegated to your subconcious,leaving you to daydream until you get to your destination and can't remember driving along certain bits of road.

I think that recording (and live mixing) is the same . . . after you have gained a certain level of experise, experience and knowledge, you can also operate on this subconscious level . . . you have an 'instinctive' feel for what a particular situation calls for.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Going with the gut is good advice for two reasons: If you're adept - either naturally or through practice - at what you're going to do, then your gut is probably at least in the right ballpark. And if you're not, then it really doesn't matter; it's a pot shot whether you follow you gut or you don't, so you might as well follow your gut just to make it efficient and get the episode over with that much quicker.

On the other hand, following one's gut is one of those things that that's rather vulnerable to the filter of selective recall. That is, it has such a great reputation at least partially because out of a kind of subliminal pride people tend to remember the times when it works more than they do the times when it doesn't. It's like those folks who remember dreaming about their grandmother dying just before being woken up by a phone call notifying them that their grandmother just died, and then thinking there must be something supernatural going on, mostly because they just don't remember that they have dreamed about their grandmother dying a hundred times before and nothing happened any of those times.

With following the gut, if it doesn't work, people don't want to admit it; but if it does work, their chest puffs up with pride (metaphorically speaking). Which outcome is more memorable?

Personally, I had that "How We Decide" book in my hand at Border's a while back, but my gut told me to put it down and not to buy it. I'm happy with that choice.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go. Johnnysuitcase just chewed through my slippers.

G.

 

[TheChikenMaster]

I usually go with my gut and what sounds good usually. This spot sounds good most the time sounds good now no issues and it always works most the time

 

[johnsuitcase]

I am a believer in selective recall for explaining a lot of things, but in this book, he features a lot of controlled experiments taht show how our brains work differently when going with the gut feeling rather than consciously working things out.

The gut thing is more important when dealing with something unusual and complicated. Like recording an instrument you've not worked with before, or in a room that you're unfamiliar with.

Someone with experience will have a feeling that a certain spot in the room might work best, or a certain mic, even though they haven't encountered that exact situation before.

In my work, I am in new, unfamiliar, untreated rooms all the time, but I generally can get a good sound in one setup. If I had to learn the room and experiment to get it right, I'd be there forever!

 

[miroslav]

...going with the gut feeling rather than consciously working things out.

........


In my work, I am in new, unfamiliar, untreated rooms all the time, but I generally can get a good sound in one setup.

Right.

I think a lot of what people here refer to as "gut feelings" is more about tapping into your acquired knowledge base without specifically *thinking* it out...but often that "gut feeling" decision is still something we make based on previous experiences.
I mean...just 'cuz you never recorded a Tuba...I'm sure most guys who've done other recording will tap into that experience and apply it to the Tuba setup and get pretty close to the mark with minimal effort.

True "gut feeling" would something like if you encountered an ET...your gut feeling would tell you if you should run or off a handshake!

 

[Bristol Posse]

when left alone in my "studio" my dog tends to try to dry hump the mic stands and guitar cases.
Should that be telling me something about how I should set up? now I'm so confused. I thought I was supposed to be listening to the dolphins for sonic stuff!

My gut says I should have a drink. sounds about right to me

 

[johnsuitcase]

when left alone in my "studio" my dog tends to try to dry hump the mic stands and guitar cases.
Should that be telling me something about how I should set up? now I'm so confused. I thought I was supposed to be listening to the dolphins for sonic stuff!

My gut says I should have a drink. sounds about right to me

My dog likes to hump her dog bed. She's a big dog, too.


There's another element to gut decisions, which is in terms of buying gear, a very complicated thing with many variables, where we often attach too much importance to one thing or another; price, looks, name-brand, etc.

How many times have you been on the verge of buying some new mic/preamp/compressor, then called it off? Or, on the other hand, walked into a music store and seen something that just seemed like a good fit?

I think in evaluating gear purchases, or whether to lease a commercial space, you want to gather lots of info, read, talk to people. But in the end, you have to listen to what your gut is telling you, even if everything looks good on paper. If your gut tells you it's not the right thing, wait on it.

Of course, your gut could just be telling you you're scared of spending the money, etc.