Go easy on me... It is my first...

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Queue

Queue

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Here's a mix I've been working on for a while...

I need others' ears to help me out at this point. The song is called Rock and Roll Cliché, and is the product of an internet collaboration done through Collaboration Central.

This is a just-for-fun project, but I'm trying to learn some production skills to make the end product a bit more appealing.

I hope to get some comments and remix and repost accordingly. I cannot re-record (easily) because most of the parts (except the vocals) were done by other collaborators. If you want recording info, I can get that from the others and post upon request.

Queue
 
hey queue,

great effort. Nice singing and vocal techniques. I like what you did with the chorus and backing vox.

Hey, I think the vox should be infront of the other instruments. As it is , the horns are blaring in my ears. I think the horns need reverb. Were you in charge of mixing.

Its actually a good mix and a good collaboration. I think you can get away with using less wetness on the reverb. I mean, if it is 50 % wet/dry, you can turn it to 30%wet/70%dry.

Nice general tone you got with the vox .I also like how you panned stuff out . Sound very dido ish or seal ish.

One thing I should also point out is that while the backing vox are tight for the most part, some times they come in slightly before the lead. THat makes is sound less pro. You should be able to fix it easily since it only happens in 2 or three spots at the beginning.
 
CJ,
Thanks for the listen, and the comments.

As it is , the horns are blaring in my ears. I think the horns need reverb. Were you in charge of mixing.
Click to expand...

Yes, I mixed the song. I'm guessing "the horns" are actually the rhythm guitar???:confused: At what time point? In the outro?

I think you can get away with using less wetness on the reverb. I mean, if it is 50 % wet/dry, you can turn it to 30%wet/70%dry.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to the overall reverb on the vox here? Or those spots where there's that stadium-esque delay thrown in. (See below about all the goings on with regard to vox.)

Nice general tone you got with the vox .I also like how you panned stuff out . Sound very dido ish or seal ish.
Click to expand...

This was a pure fluke that only someone with no experience (like myself) would try. I started with doubled lead vox and doubled backup vox. I pushed the leads through a compressor, some EQ to lose some sibilance, and some reverb and panned each out 10%. When listening, I felt like I had lost a lot of highs, and was futzing around with the original lead vox trax. By mistake, I had forgotten to mute the processed trax, but all together, it sounded really cool. So there's 2 dry trax panned out 30% and 2 wet ones panned out 10%. The Backup vox are spread out 95% and were treated with the same as the wet leads (I think).

backing vox... ...come in slightly before the lead
Click to expand...
You're right, I can definitely fix this!!

Thanks again,

Queue
 
Queue,

I'll download & listen to your mp3, even though, in general, I hate downloading mp3s.

At this point, not having listened, what I want to know is, how did you like the online recording collaboration environment, or your feelings about using it?

---------------

I think the internet is so damn gimmicky,... like everyone wants to download everything, all the time, like books and music, when there are many non-internet sources out there, [f/i: actual books, or the DAVEMANIA project cds], and I think people are all crazed-out about downloading!!

As for me, downloading some stuff is cool, but too much of it annoys me. Sure, the internet is the greatest information resource we've ever seen, but,... things like books and tape have not lost their value, [at least IMHO], have they?

Sorry, for going off topic, there, ok, and you know I'm full of opinions that no one asked for! Haha. That's my 2c of the moment.

---------------

Anyway, Queue, I'll listen to your mp3. I'm also really curious about the 'experience' of recording collaboration/online, and/or what you thought about using thin inet to record, or about what you think of the inet as a collaboration medium.

Call me Mr. Curious, today.
 
I LOVE Collaboration

Dave,
I know you spend a LOT of time recording, and you also are fairly proficient at playing all the instruments as seen/heard in The DaveMania Collection <- How's that for a plug?

Why I love collaboration:

I enjoy writing songs, but I feel that I alone can only take a song so far. It is when I take a song idea, and give it to another person, and allow them to impact that idea that the song begins to grow. Throw in a few more people and WOW.

I REALLY suck at percussion, so via collaboration, I can get someone who is good at percussion to contribute, plus they're having fun, where I'd be pulling out my hair.

I can play the bass a little, but I don't know if I'll ever achieve the level of skill that produced the Bassline in this song.

When collaborating via the internet, every day is Christmas! You get up and there's a new lead guitar track!

The uploading/downloading is a pain (I'm 56K at home:( ) but to me it is worth it.

I hope you like the song. After you've heard it, I'll let you hear the sucky skeleton of an idea that we started from.

Queue
 
hey queue, I am listening again and you are right, it is guitar.

THe guitar needs more reverb and the lead vox needs less reverb of a bigger room.

I just read somewhere that you have a c-1. If this is a c-1 on the vox, its the best c-1 I've heard. It kinda sounds like a c-1 mixed in with a sm58. nice sound that sounds like alicia keys sound. It does not have any of the piercing, unsmooth highs I've heard from previous C-1 samples.

I think that the guit also needs to be slightly quiter in the mix.

For your first post, it is definitely impressive.
 
OK, I'm Mr. Curious as well. I've done a few Internet Collaborations and ending up as 160 Kbps mp3 it sounded pretty clean. What was the transfer medium? At what resolution?
How many people involved and what were their setups?
You've got some grit and determination to pull this off at 56K.
My hat is off. Been there myself.
First off the idea itself brought to mind The Kinks. So did the arrangement and execution of same.

The only mix nitpick I can muster is a general sense of mud in the low end. The kick and the bass don't seem percussive enough for me, but don't stray too far or you'll lose that Kinks sound... :)

Of course it's a bit dodgier doing collaborations with my kind of music but when it works it's amazingly satisfying. I've got that same sense of a holiday atmosphere when an awesome track shows up.

Keep up the good work.
 
Q,

Sounds old fashioned, and happy. Keep this up and we'll have to start calling you Q squared.

Very nice, and very busy. How many guitars are running there?

I did one colab here at home rec, and you're right it felt like Christmas. I even said so at the time.

When are you going to cheer down, and write a song about murder, death, and destruction (tobacco, firearms, and alchohol). You know the cool stuff. Hey wait, maybe they're not so cool after all. What do I know?

Sounded really great, song, mix, playing, ect.

Me likey!!

GT
 
Multi - reply...

CJ,
All vox recorded with my C1, but I decided to keep somewhat mum on that, to see if I could get some unbiased opinions. (At least I got one ;)) Actually, you played a bit of a part in the way these vox sound. (The Studio Projects C1 vs. My Voice thread.) I eq'd the wet vox (lead and backup) as you suggested in that thread. Upon listening, I found myself longing for sparkle and highs. Half of my problem was the hats and cymbals were way too low, the other was I think that EQ cut was a little too much. That's what led to my serendipitous discovery of using both...

Doc,
Thanks for listening and commenting. I've been trying to adjust the 'mud' via eq, and learning all the way...

Why this sounds clean: All the vox are mine, so they're 24 bit 44.1 kHz wav files (with a fair bit of PC noise thrown in for good measure :eek: ). The drums and bass trax came from another HomeRec'er, Bassman. They were 5 trax of drums and one bass track, all 16 bit 44.1 kHz wav's that we pushed through "the big pipe" while I was at work. The acoustic guitar was a Martin contributed by "Bill" over at Collaboration Central, recorded with an SM58 IIRC (not sure of the soundcard or if there's any pre's involved.) The other guitars were contributed by Ben (also from CC) who did a great workover on the original rhythm guitar phrasing. We have another contributor, who is supposed to add some keys, but I wanted to get the mix moving whilst waiting for his stuff.

So far, 4 contributors (me, Bassman, Bill, and Ben = "Q and the Killer B's"), hopefully 5 if we get those keys in there, 1/2 of the files xfer'd were 160 kBps MP3's the rest wav's. I'll see if I can get more details on the other's setups.

GT,
I wrote this a year or so ago... Most of my stuff is like this, I'm just one of those "half full" kinda guys. I can't say that I've written a sad song... Only 2 or 3 guitars, I think, just lotsa different phrases at the end. Thanks for listening, and I'm glad you likey.

Queue
 
Bassman reporting in....

Here's how I did my parts....

Used Cakewalk PA9...
Bass... Peavey TL5 Direct into my M-audio Omni I/O(delta66) 16bits/44k ..

Drums.. SBlive soundfonts from DrumImplants played on a Drumkat pad. Split each drum into seperate Midi tracks, bounced them to individual Audio tracks as Kick, Snare, Toms, Ride/Hi-hat and Crashes.

Zipped them all up and Shipped them to my man Queue. No signal processing on my end, just straight tracking. Luckily, I have a cable modem so large file transfers are no problem.These collaborations are fun, as long as you have the bandwidth to transfer the files. I don't think I would be doing it if I was still dialup.

Anyone need a bass or drum part?...

Bassman
 
Revised mix, based on comments above. Less reverb on vox, more reverb on rhythm guitars, backed down the rhy guit levels, sync'ed up the lead and bu vox. Futzed with EQ a bit to address 'mud' issues between bass and kick, but I'm a little lost on what I am doing with regards to mud and EQ. :confused:

Anyhow, give a listen, if you get a chance, I am very thankful for any help/comments/criticisms.

Rock and Roll Cliché (Remixed)

Queue
 
Hey - not bad. One distraction for me though, was the repeating delay on the vocals if that's what it was - it seemed to counter the rhythm of the song rather than breathe with it.

BTW - is all of your stuff ironic comment on the process of creating pop music? :D
 
Dobro,
Thanks for the comments.

That delay..... Damn, and I even used my handy dandy delay calculator...:( Delay is set to 1/4 note (any suggestions)?

And no, I write ironic comments on all sorts of things.... :D

This one I was trying for "Over the top Pop (Rock)"

Queue
 
Just listened.
You pulled the mix off wonderfuly. I was wondering about the bass in the first minute of the song. I thought it could add more with a boost.
But, then the rest of the song presented itself and I was loving how you pulled everything together. The pans are expansive and keep everything non-combative. Nice vocals and backups. NIce git fills.
What can you do but listen and go Ahhh.
Theron.
 
Thanks Theron,
This project has been quite a challenge for me, but was also quite fun. It is great to get such a positive response.

Queue
 
nice job

Good song!!! No mix will ever work without a good song.

My only complaint would be the guitar solo being dead center in the mix. I would move it away from the rhythem guitars a touch. Maybe *brighten* the overall mix a tad bit.

Best of luck with your music!!!
 
Stickman,
Thanks for the listen, and thanks for the compliments on the song. This was one of those that almost 'wrote itself'. (I love when that happens... :) )

I'll add that pan for the solo, sounds like a good idea.

Queue
 
Rock & Roll Cliche, the mp3...

-The production value is v-good to excellent.

-The guitar was the standout performance of the track, IMHO.

-As a recording/songwriting excercise, and collaboration experiment, it was fine: mission accomplished. It's a good recording, that sounds like it was lots of fun to do. The web collaboration systems out there show real promise, for those web-enabled musicians who like to record on their 'puter, and work in the 'virtual' medium of the web. It's all so 21st century, like Buck Rodgers!

-As songs go, Rock & Roll Cliche: well, it's like cotton candy: all sweetening and no substance.

-It's basically a song that has nothing to say, but is jam packed, [wall to wall], with musical cliche's, much like the title would indicate. Ironically, the theme or catch line of the song says, [paraphrasing], "if you've got nothing to say in a song, just pump it full of musical cliche's", so on irony alone, this song scores points. It's an ironic idea played out, and a very good recording, but not a good song. Not the worst song ever, [I probably wrote that], but not a good song, either. Just a song that was an exercise in songwriting, recording, web-collaboration, and.... irony.

---------

Cliche's are, what they are. They have their place, and yes, they're common, but don't overuse them. There's a diminishing return on value, the more cliche's you use.

I know, it was just a one-off experiment in web recording/collaboration, just for fun, and is not necessarily trying to be a meaninful/message song, and that's fine. I understand the context and purpose of the song, so I'm not really slamming you, but,...

IMHO, "R & R Cliche", the song, may have just as well been,...

"Sugar,.. da da da da da da..."
"Ah, Honey Honey,... da da da da da da..."


... if you know what I mean.

------------

Hey, I know I'm just a serious COVER ARTIST, with very few coherent original songs to my name, but... where's originality in songwriting??

IMHO, if you're going to bother to put the effort into songwriting, you should try to be original. The music world needs more originality, not more cliche's. Be original.

-----------
F/I:
GABBA GABBA HEY!
GABBA GABBA HEY!
GABBA GABBA HEY!
GABBA GABBA HEY!

That's originality!
 
-Tie Your Mother Down!

-I'm In Love With My Car!

-Get Down, Make Love!

-Love, Reign O'er Me!

-[Partying gets me into a] Blackout!

-Welcome To My Nightmare!

-[Who took away your] Licence to Kill!

-Somethin's goin' on here, but you don't know what it is,
Do you, Mr. Jones?

-Say it loud! I'M BLACK AND PROUD!

(and let's not forget),

GABBA GABBA HEY!

---------

THAT's ORIGINALity, in song writing!
... the list goes on.

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Go check out Stickman's mp3 posts, on his web page, [see mp3 forum]. He's using all the modern 'puter recording techniques, and appying that to some HIGHLY original sounding, kickass Rock tunes. "Honest Rock and Roll".

--------

You know, despite not being a songwriter myself, by being the highly serious cover artist that I am, I think it's peaked my sense of what a 'good' song is. A 'good' song is much more than just high production value, alone. To me, a 'good' song is well written, original sounding, and in a certain respect, production value is not important, if the song is really 'good', in the written or performance sense.

You know, that's my 2c worth of opinion, for the time being.

Queue, keep it up, there's lots of potential in what you're doing. Good luck. DA

---------

BTW, thanx for the great plug for THE DAVEMANIA COLLECTION, especially for the keen bold type! I appreciate that, for sure.

FYI, of course, everyone's heard by now, but THE DAVEMANIA COLLECTION, 4CD SET of ALL home recording COVERS, featuring yours truly, is still available, for free, and in it's 2nd free edition.

DAVEMANIA- Still currently available, so email your requests to me at d.archuleta@att.net

Thanx people! and thanx Queue!:cool:
 
Queue, i enjoyed every bit of that song! I couldn't imagine pulling off an internet collaboration. All of you deserve a thunderous clap! The only thing i would add is that i didn't hear the drums really well in the mix, especially the cymbals as mentioned earlier. But, i listened to the first recording and not the remix so you probably fixed that by now anyway. Lotsa' talent!

t
 
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