Gibson vs Everyone

  • Thread starter Thread starter gvarko
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While they're at it, I hope Gibson sues Jay Turser, too. After looking around on ebay, thses things are les paul CLONES and you have to wade through them to find the gobsons, even in the les paul section. I'm going to email Gibson and see if they will add these to their list;).

H2H
 
hell i guess I'll use my 1k post here.. yeah i say go ahead and send links to gibson from everyone that has copied the les paul shape. i figure they'll end up being a pissed off cockerspaniel and barks and nips at everyone until they leave the bowl of dog food alone...the only problem with that is that there are so many knockoffs that i dont think gibson can find and sue them all....and due to gibson's prices...i think i might just go buy a knockoff to spite them. or I'll just buy another strat and say to hell with the les paul. still kinda want a les paul though.
 
I'm a stat guy too, really. I record in the studio with Les Pauls alot of the time, but they belong to a brokerage company, or rental places, or stuff like that. Even my PRS is the bolt-on one, because it felt like a strat with humbuckers to me.

H2H
 
lol i just think I'll be better off buying a fat strat...at least i can afford it.
 
This could go on for years. I'm not saying Gibson does not have the right to go after prs or who ever, but I never have bought for the shape of a guitar. I own a prs (not a double cut) and gibson can't touch it for the price in my book as far as playability, diversity of sounds and quality (quality only applies to modern gibsons) . I've played some very nice gibsons too. But to each his own.

F.S.

P.S. I should not my prs is a pre 1985.
 
c7sus said:
Harley-Davidson isn't innovating enough??? Gee, their bikes are sold before they're even manufactured.
Click to expand...

That's because they're snapped up by accountants trying to buy themselves a reputation.

Harley's used to be the bikes that only a bad-ass dude (who was also a good mechanic) would ride.

Now, they're a yuppie status symbol.

I'd rather ride an Indian. (...the bike, that is) ;)
 
Well, I know plenty of Wiremen that ride too.

Trust me, they EARNED their reputations.

I'm starting to see who the real Anti-Americans are around here.

As soon as you guys see the Made In USA Label, or even worse, a union label, you immediately think it was made by overpaid and underworked bozos.

Of course, none of you guys are overpaid or underworked for your daily bread.:rolleyes:

And God knows a Chinaman's labor is only worth 30 cents and hour anyway, so it's not like they're being exploited or anything.

Keep buying up all that cheap imported shit. One of these days they're gonna bring your termination out too.
 
I have not yet read the full thread, so if I missed something important, I'll get it tomorrow.

At any rate, this suit actually has some merit, to my mind. The Tokai instruments are, without question, Les Paul copies. Good ones to, I believe. Isn’t that what Robert Fripp is using these days? At least if this is about the ones I am thinking of. The PRS suit is crap, and any guitar expert in the world (at least those not in the pay of Gibson) will tell you that the PRS single cut is derived from the PRS double cut body. The shape is very different, within the context of a single cut guitar. So is the Tele, but no one is claiming THAT infringes on the LP trademark.

At any rate, though I think that Gibson will, and probably should, win this case, I still think they are idiots for bringing it. It is not what you need in customer relations, because most people are going to think they are being petty, which they probably are. Of course, all of the companies doing LP copies (and there are more than a few) should really just get a clue and start making original designs. But of course, I am speaking as a builder who ALWAYS makes for original designs.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Buck62 said:
That's because they're snapped up by accountants trying to buy themselves a reputation.

Harley's used to be the bikes that only a bad-ass dude (who was also a good mechanic) would ride.

Now, they're a yuppie status symbol.

I'd rather ride an Indian. (...the bike, that is) ;)
Click to expand...


Give me a Triumph. Frank Ford told me recently that one of his employees is in a Triumph biker gang. They call themselves "The Road Oilers," and their motto is, "It seems fast to us."


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Buck62 said:
That's because they're snapped up by accountants trying to buy themselves a reputation.
Click to expand...

One of my old accounting profs started life as a biker and BECAME an accountant.
 
"I'm starting to see who the real Anti-Americans are around here"

"As soon as you guys see the Made In USA Label, or even worse, a union label, you immediately think it was made by overpaid and underworked bozos."


"Of course, none of you guys are overpaid or underworked for your daily bread"



"And God knows a Chinaman's labor is only worth 30 cents and hour anyway, so it's not like they're being exploited or anything"


"Keep buying up all that cheap imported shit. One of these days they're gonna bring your termination out too."



Hooray for amerika, csus7.
This is pretty racist talk. But I suppose I should expect it from someone who deifies amerikan corporations.
If amerika would learn to compete with the rest of the world instead of alienating itself and then dictating through force how others should do things, none of this would be necessary.
Amerikan corporations want to globalize, but at the same time want to isolate themselves from everyone else. Too bad.
Of course, they don't need to when people follow blindly along.
Gibson is not looking out for you csus7. It is looking out for it's own profits. They want a free market, as long as it's only free to them. Typically amerikan.
This whole thread is bullshit, as is Gibson's suit.
 
I never said Gibson was looking out for me.

And how is it racist for me to point out the OVERWHELMINGLY PREVAILING attitude of folks on this BBS?

Do a search of the site and see for yourself. You've been here 3 months. I've been here almost 5 years. Trust me, I know how a lot of these guys think.

I've seen lots of folks come here and gleefully exclaim that they don't feel bad for a second about conditions in any Third World country, as long as their sneakers and mics are cheap. Those are the folks that are blindly following along in the global race-to-the-bottom game.

What part of Seattle are you in? I'm in Marysville.
 
I'm in Ballard, csus7.
So let me get this straight. Because a number of people say that Chinese labor is only worth 30 cents an hour, it's less racist? I don't follow your logic. A number of people, as you yourself claim, say that amerikan workers are underworked and over paid. So then that would be true too, yes? This is what you're saying. Why is it that someone elses labor is worth less than an amerikans? Just because they're from somewhere else? Thats ridiculous.

Those Tokai copies, and the Ibanez Fender copies were every bit the equal of what was coming out of amerikan factories, often times better than what was made here. The Electra LP clones were damn nice too, as were Yamaha's versions of Gibsons. So the arguement that Asian manufacturers can't do good work, and that the value of their labor is somehow inferior to amerikan labor is baseless.

The fact remains that amerikan corporations are coddled by our government, and when they cry about something, the government listens, because the corporations are the ones paying those lovely contributions to the likes of Bush and Kerry. They pay in and they want something in return. The rules then become selectively enforced when it comes to major corporations. They are allowed to sell your job to an outside contractor, often times in another country.

You are right in the point about corporate bottom dollar, but it has nothing to do with offshore merchandise. It has to do with avoiding restrictions on the environment, worker safety, and basically having third world workers over a barrel that the U.S. placed there in the beginning.

When Fender moves a plant to Ensenada Mexico, it's because they can now go ahead and use cheaper methods of waste disposal, less worker safety precautions, and they don't have to pay those people nearly as much to do the same work as they would here. This is why amerikan businesses globalize. This is why GATT, NAFTA, and FTAA happened. These trade agreements came into being because of pressure from amerikan business. And this is why your job is under threat.

So, when an offshore company sells something better than an amerikan company does, who do you blame? I blame those amerikan businesses. Suing another company that makes a product that kinda sorta looks like yours in a vague way is'nt going to make you a better company. Building a better product is. If your vaunted reputation as an icon is'nt enough to maintain your marketshare, thats just too bad. Time to pony up and make changes, or just get out of business.

I know this is all off topic, and I did'nt mean to hijack this thread. For that I apologize to all.
 
I think you're taking my comment about Chinese wages the wrong way.

I'm on the side of the Chinese workers.

I got flamed to a cinder a couple years ago for suggesting to a couple of the biggest Chinese-mic dealers that they market that shit in China, and if they're interested in the US market to use US labor. That's not racism. That's saying that our market is a two-way street. Not a dumping ground for products made by exploitation.

I think they should be making more. I think they should be allowed to form free and independent labor unions if they choose.

My main point is that a lot of the guys buying those mics KNOW damned well they are buying the fruit of exploitation.

And they don't give a shit about it.
 
I agree 100% with that, csus7.
Most consumers don't realize that those companies build what they build at the behest of western companies. And by buying those goods, they end up keeping others in a bad situation, such as in sweatshops and dangerous workplaces. In essence, the amerikan consumer is the oppressor, and this is what feeds bad corporate behavior.

And this is why your job gets sent to somewhere else.

If you want to keep your job here, then by all means, buy amerikan. But don't cry about being outsourced when you shop at Wal-Mart.

The crux is this. Amerikan companies have burned competition into the minds of consumers. Low price is a key issue with people. I know very few people with the extra coin to spend on a new LP or PRS. I'm sure it's the same everywhere. Gibson's sales numbers have to be getting smaller. So they have to make up those numbers somewhere else.

An easy way to do it is to eliminate competition by suing others out of "their" market. Because PRS can compete with them across the board, they are a threat, so Gibson must get rid of them, one way or another. This is what I find distasteful. Rather than go head to head in true competition, and let the chips fall where they may, they do the base thing and sue. Crappy business. And further proves that amerikan business is not about free markets. It's simply about domination and intimidation. Like that idiot Toby Keith says. "It's the amerikan way".

Peace.
 
Dig this:

How many guys from ALL OVER THE WORLD wanna own a real, honest-to-goodness Strat or LP?

Probably anybody that ever picked up a guitar and seriously set about learning to play.

They want the REAL DEAL. I'm sure they have to settle for the knockoffs too.

But the point is they DREAM of owning products from America.

Meanwhile, we've become just the opposite. We view our own products as inferior in design, manufacture, price, support, whatever.

It's a crooked piece of time that we're living!
 
I agree completely with the whole buy American theme. I am one of the few left that won’t buy a foreign car, not even used. Yet I here these things on occasion from those who drive off in there Toyota or Honda.
I have a hard time believing that a person working for 30 cents would stay at that job if they could go to across the street and make 40 cents. If you want to place blame for bad conditions in China on anyone blame it on China. Truth is that American companies have provided jobs around the world to those who otherwise may not have one. Is it perfect no, is it changing China for the better yes. They are slowly learning that capitalism is not such a bad idea and loosening the leash on some of their own people to create a better life for them selves and others. Personally I feel we should have no relations with China at all import or export.

F.S.

PS just my opinion
 
I like vintage guitars but...

I find it absolutely absurd that a very old design, say 50s or 60s, could be technically the best of all time. I had a piece of crap Fender Mustang from the late 70s that I had to hot rod just make playable. Now it's a $900 VINTAGE INSTRUMENT?????

Vintage electrical guitars are an enigma. I cannot believe that Leo Fender or Les Paul nailed the perfect design for anything ever in the history of the universe. The design of the rest of everything else evolves. People find room for improvement in every other product.

But hey, if you happen to have an ES335 with a natural finish from the late 50s or early 60s, PM me, OK?
 
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