ausrock
Well-known member
Hear! Hear!
SPINSTERWUN
Active member
I hope that both/all sides come to a positive conclusion soon.
spin
spin
VOXVENDOR
New member
Blue Bear Sound said:
Bruce... That is totally fair... and makes sense... just one aspect you are not addressing.... So yeah the guy made an offer and got sick right away.....Shit happens... damn I've been in the hospital many times... I feel his pain...
All that aside... why Lie 4 TIMES??? and tell someone it's in the mail? When it isn't????..... and to more than one person?.....
The office screw up doesn't make sense either... okay In our studio, If I got a customer calling and looking for something he didn't receive.. im gonna damn well check into it,. not just blow it off 4 TIMES and say "oh ya it's in the mail"......
You would think on the second one, he would start wondering where it is...has the mail lost it... maybe I should check into it...
(Remember all my views are Hypothetical and based on principal.... This SJOKO guy could very well be real.. Im just throwing in my .12 cent here and there as a studio owner, and one who's wary of situations like this.. I mean no disrespect to any of yall)
BG
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
Blue Bear Sound said:Would you do the same thing to Ed, Shailat, Skippy, John, Track Rat, Ametth, myself, or the other pros here? You'd think after posting for years, that "credibility" is not an issue based simply on the CONTENT of people's posts (not the "count")..........
Let's get a fuckin' grip here please.........
Bruce
Response to the first sentence quoted above....yes...given the same circumstances. When you see the many posts on the message boards here, but responses to the clients, during the same period of time seems lacking....I am at a loss to understand the reason.
On your second quoted sentence above, you must mean that credibility IS based on the content...and NOT the post count. That I would agree with. However, you must admit that you see many responses here that are straight out of some magazine (or even paraphrased from another previous post). How many people do you think say....Oh...the MXL603 is a great mic, but actually have never even heard one? I'll bet there are more than a few.
as far as the "fucking grip".....I like new kinky positions. Different "grips" (providing you are NOT by yourself), can keep things interesting!!
Bruce....your difference compared to this situation is your good communication. The person on the other end, knows what is going on in your camp. I would presume that is how you run your business too. Would I need the services of your studio...I wouldn't worry about your credibility.....(unless you have a studio full of MXL2001!!!!.....that's a joke!!) ;-)
VOXVENDOR
New member
Just want to add another thing.....
For a person who was so ill and in and out of surgery for the last few months.... There is not more than 1 day missed here or there since the offer......
I was just reading his explenation of the procedure on his jaw, and wow that sounds serious and he seems to have had quite the recovery period... yet missed no time here.... maybe a day at a time here and there... 3 times at the most since the offer..... and the same pattern of missed days before the offer dating back to May.... So im not seeing a "ill-person" in the searching
Im not Sherlock Holmes or anything these are simple searches...
Don't be so gullable.
Im new here and I don't even know you people, but I feel I must to jump into a situation like this and help anyway I can.....
BG
Once again, I mean no discrespect, just posting what I found...
For a person who was so ill and in and out of surgery for the last few months.... There is not more than 1 day missed here or there since the offer......
I was just reading his explenation of the procedure on his jaw, and wow that sounds serious and he seems to have had quite the recovery period... yet missed no time here.... maybe a day at a time here and there... 3 times at the most since the offer..... and the same pattern of missed days before the offer dating back to May.... So im not seeing a "ill-person" in the searching
Im not Sherlock Holmes or anything these are simple searches...
Don't be so gullable.
Im new here and I don't even know you people, but I feel I must to jump into a situation like this and help anyway I can.....
BG
Once again, I mean no discrespect, just posting what I found...
Blue Bear Sound
New member
I was ill for about 6 weeks about 1 year and a half ago or so.... it was incredibly boring... I couldn't work much in the studio, and all I had was the computer.... so damn right I was on these forums........ that's no surprise that Sjoko is doing the same thing during recovery.........
Don't forget -- he's running a full-scale op... he's not sitting with 14 HR clients' CDs sitting in his lap just waiting for something to do........ he's in recovery, and still trying to maintain his regular operation.... the favour he was doing for HR members can't be as high as his main clients... let's face it - HR posters are not his bread and butter.... the price he was charging was next to nothing (in comparison to normal mastering rates), so it might as well have been considered a favour.... with no implicit guarantee of time taken.... and if it was ME who was taking advantage of it, I would have taken it in that light from the git-go....
If I was paying full-pop - damn right I would expect a timely deliverable.... BUT - hugely discounted rates don't merit the same priority.
YMMV, and obviously for some, it does.........
Bruce
Don't forget -- he's running a full-scale op... he's not sitting with 14 HR clients' CDs sitting in his lap just waiting for something to do........ he's in recovery, and still trying to maintain his regular operation.... the favour he was doing for HR members can't be as high as his main clients... let's face it - HR posters are not his bread and butter.... the price he was charging was next to nothing (in comparison to normal mastering rates), so it might as well have been considered a favour.... with no implicit guarantee of time taken.... and if it was ME who was taking advantage of it, I would have taken it in that light from the git-go....
If I was paying full-pop - damn right I would expect a timely deliverable.... BUT - hugely discounted rates don't merit the same priority.
YMMV, and obviously for some, it does.........
Bruce
S
Squashboy
New member
You all make excellent points. Health situations do make a difference. My only real complaints are that
(1) Sjoko2 never once contacted us to let us know that he was having health problems and that the job would possibly be delayed by several months. It would seem to me that if I realized I wasn't going to get to a job, I could have sent my customers (even the little-itty-bitty 240 buck jobs) an email saying "Look, I have had some serious surgery, and I may not be able to get to your project for several months. If you like, I'll refund your money, or you can just be patient. You choose." But we were given no such option, no such information. If you are too sick to send an email like that, then why are you spending so much time posting on the BBS?
(2) according to him (i.e. according to what he posted here on November 5th), the job was done OVER A MONTH AGO. If that is true, then I really don't understand the hold up.
(3) I was told three times that the CD was ALREADY IN THE MAIL (of course, everytime, it has been me calling him. He has never once called me). And it never came. I'm not saying he's dishonest here, it really is possible that the mail got mixed up that many times. I'm just saying that I had every damn right to complain....and to complain HERE. Guys, if this offer had originated in the cave, then I would have complained there.
Let me also say that when I talked to Sjoko2 on the phone yesterday he apologized for the whole mess, and seemed very sincere. So, even as he sees it, I had a legitimate complaint. I'm happy that my CD is apparently in the mail now, and I'm sure we all wish we could have avoided this altogether. Now, we learn our lesson and move on. (unless my CD doesn't show up again)...
(1) Sjoko2 never once contacted us to let us know that he was having health problems and that the job would possibly be delayed by several months. It would seem to me that if I realized I wasn't going to get to a job, I could have sent my customers (even the little-itty-bitty 240 buck jobs) an email saying "Look, I have had some serious surgery, and I may not be able to get to your project for several months. If you like, I'll refund your money, or you can just be patient. You choose." But we were given no such option, no such information. If you are too sick to send an email like that, then why are you spending so much time posting on the BBS?
(2) according to him (i.e. according to what he posted here on November 5th), the job was done OVER A MONTH AGO. If that is true, then I really don't understand the hold up.
(3) I was told three times that the CD was ALREADY IN THE MAIL (of course, everytime, it has been me calling him. He has never once called me). And it never came. I'm not saying he's dishonest here, it really is possible that the mail got mixed up that many times. I'm just saying that I had every damn right to complain....and to complain HERE. Guys, if this offer had originated in the cave, then I would have complained there.
Let me also say that when I talked to Sjoko2 on the phone yesterday he apologized for the whole mess, and seemed very sincere. So, even as he sees it, I had a legitimate complaint. I'm happy that my CD is apparently in the mail now, and I'm sure we all wish we could have avoided this altogether. Now, we learn our lesson and move on. (unless my CD doesn't show up again)...
J
JuSumPilgrim
New member
Blue Bear Sound said:
Money is money. It doesnt matter if its $20 or $20k. The second you take someones money, you commit yourself. Youll lose clients very fast if you start prioritizing your work load in terms of money. The client that youre giving the run around today bec hes only paying $200 may well not come back to you to pay $5k to do his record. In any case, it doesnt sound like it was put on the back burner, it sounds like it was basically ignored and forgotten about.
VOXVENDOR
New member
Squashboy said:
Exactly the point I was trying to make..... It was just still to early in the morning for me to make it
BG
Blue Bear Sound
New member
My point was not about the actual dollar amount, it was the relative value if the service compared to the amount charged.... a small, but very important distinction in terms of business practice....JuSumPilgrim said:
It's the difference between doing a buddy a favour and having a client paying for your services (whatever the dollar cost is)....
Sjoko's offer amounted to a "favour for a friend" - which implicitly limits the liability.... and doesn't merit the normal business rights a paying client would have.......
If you don't see or understand the distinction, there's no point in pursuing this conversation further......... because you're being hung-up on the monetary amount when in fact, it's not quite that simple..........
Bruce
harley96
New member
$240.00 is considered a deal?
I would like to start by saying I hope sjoko2 gets well.With that said, $240.00 to me is considered normal business. I believe that whether someone mails you $240.00 or $2000.00 for services rendered,then you are obligated to put all your efforts into that project regardless of the amount both parties agreed upon.If I post a deal on mastering that's on me and I will do the best I can within that price figure.People are harping on squashboy when from the surface all he want's is his money's worth.Is he wrong for expecting that from somebody that was offering such a good deal?Now taking sjoko2's unfortunate circumstances in consideration I believe squashboy has been more than patient.It's been 4 month's!!!!!!!!!!!and even now he seems to be more than respectful towards sjoko2.From reading this thread I believe eveybody has come to save sjoko2 reputation when really it should not be in question.Sjoko2 when these circumstances arrived should of either returned the tape/money or subcontracted the work to someone else who had the abilities and time to do a reputable job considering sjoko2 had health problems.With that said anybody who attacks sjoko2 engineering abilities based on his business practices or attacks squashboy for wanting what he paid for there totally in the wrong.Hell If business sense was a prerequisite for being a recording engineer than just maybe I'd make some money for a change.Peace
I would like to start by saying I hope sjoko2 gets well.With that said, $240.00 to me is considered normal business. I believe that whether someone mails you $240.00 or $2000.00 for services rendered,then you are obligated to put all your efforts into that project regardless of the amount both parties agreed upon.If I post a deal on mastering that's on me and I will do the best I can within that price figure.People are harping on squashboy when from the surface all he want's is his money's worth.Is he wrong for expecting that from somebody that was offering such a good deal?Now taking sjoko2's unfortunate circumstances in consideration I believe squashboy has been more than patient.It's been 4 month's!!!!!!!!!!!and even now he seems to be more than respectful towards sjoko2.From reading this thread I believe eveybody has come to save sjoko2 reputation when really it should not be in question.Sjoko2 when these circumstances arrived should of either returned the tape/money or subcontracted the work to someone else who had the abilities and time to do a reputable job considering sjoko2 had health problems.With that said anybody who attacks sjoko2 engineering abilities based on his business practices or attacks squashboy for wanting what he paid for there totally in the wrong.Hell If business sense was a prerequisite for being a recording engineer than just maybe I'd make some money for a change.Peace
harley96
New member
Bruce
I totally respect your opinions as you have helped me considerably in the past.I don't see this as doing it for a friend as far as I can tell sjoko2 and squashboy know eachother as well you and I know eachother and when you post a mastering deal as sjoko2 did he should expect that people are going to jump on it. Does that mean now I'm sjoko2 friend, not really I'm paying him for his services.But let's not forget SJOKO2 we all hope you are well!!!!!!!!!!
I totally respect your opinions as you have helped me considerably in the past.I don't see this as doing it for a friend as far as I can tell sjoko2 and squashboy know eachother as well you and I know eachother and when you post a mastering deal as sjoko2 did he should expect that people are going to jump on it. Does that mean now I'm sjoko2 friend, not really I'm paying him for his services.But let's not forget SJOKO2 we all hope you are well!!!!!!!!!!
Khompewtur
*Retired*
A shady character has never made it in the music business
I dunno i don't really know anyone in the forum so i can add a few impartial points
Established in the business doesn't necessarily mean better service especially if you're an unknown.
My personal experience was paying $1700 to a NYC studio to have it worked on by someone who appeared in the credits of several multi-platinum projects.
The bastard showed up an hour late, on drugs, and did a half assed job.
Objectively I wouldn't let anyone bully you around and try to be a little bit more skeptical. The internet is full of scammers and if something turned out to be not true, I wouldn't be surprised.
IMO, it sounds like your getting screwed by having your check cashed and nothing to show for it. Even if you do eventually get a product, I would be reluctant to view the producing party as reliable due to the voluminous misinformation. This is under the assumption your posts are accurate.
I dunno i don't really know anyone in the forum so i can add a few impartial points
Established in the business doesn't necessarily mean better service especially if you're an unknown.
My personal experience was paying $1700 to a NYC studio to have it worked on by someone who appeared in the credits of several multi-platinum projects.
The bastard showed up an hour late, on drugs, and did a half assed job.
Objectively I wouldn't let anyone bully you around and try to be a little bit more skeptical. The internet is full of scammers and if something turned out to be not true, I wouldn't be surprised.
IMO, it sounds like your getting screwed by having your check cashed and nothing to show for it. Even if you do eventually get a product, I would be reluctant to view the producing party as reliable due to the voluminous misinformation. This is under the assumption your posts are accurate.
Queue
Active member
uh oh, here we go again... 
Queue
Queue
SPINSTERWUN
Active member
Did squashboy receive the CD's yet? They should have arrived today (Friday the 30th).
Blue Bear Sound
New member
In response to Khompewtur -- Sjoko is not advertising anything, nor is he scamming ---being new to the forum, you have no idea of the history or the personalities involved, so I'd refrain from commenting directly on people you know nothing about.
He was not advertizing services - he was offering cut-rate mastering as a favour to test out his newly-renovated facilities....
Bruce
He was not advertizing services - he was offering cut-rate mastering as a favour to test out his newly-renovated facilities....
Bruce
Khompewtur
*Retired*
Don't discount my opinion just because im a new member. Just because I haven't posted here since today doesn't mean I was born yesterday. It's a free forum and here's my 2 cents. Feel free to group me with the unpopular kids if you must.
I appreciate the fact that sjoko is a popular guy around here but after listening to the story, it sounds like there are things that can be done to avoid this kind of misunderstanding. Even from a hospital bed, you would be able to call an intern and go "send a refund I can't do it I'm out of commission"
You're not doing anyone a favor if you take their money and cause them anguish (even if you had good intentions).
I don't care if Tori Amos or God had taken my money, I'd be pissed off and I think squashboy is being MORE that deferential.
If he posts that he received his mastered disk I will be glad to PUBLICLY APOLOGIZE for doubting sjoko
I appreciate the fact that sjoko is a popular guy around here but after listening to the story, it sounds like there are things that can be done to avoid this kind of misunderstanding. Even from a hospital bed, you would be able to call an intern and go "send a refund I can't do it I'm out of commission"
You're not doing anyone a favor if you take their money and cause them anguish (even if you had good intentions).
I don't care if Tori Amos or God had taken my money, I'd be pissed off and I think squashboy is being MORE that deferential.
If he posts that he received his mastered disk I will be glad to PUBLICLY APOLOGIZE for doubting sjoko
VOXVENDOR
New member
Khompewtur said:
Unfortunately that happens here Khom.
I don't feel you were out of line at all... Whether you know the guy or not, you were commenting on the scenario... it makes no difference WHO is involved..
Let it out Bro, say whats on yor mind, hell it's free here.. (well so far) ....Some will try to silence you like above.. that just makes me want to yak twice as much, So I will....
I just offered my drum machine thats been for sale to someone here..It's been used once and is great, and Im selling it for HALF of what it is new...
Thought, what the hell, I don't use it, this guy is in the market, and so I will make him a great deal and pass on the buck.... Plus, $300US will definately be nice in my wallet....
I also offered to send the unit to him FIRST then he can pay me.... Since thats how a PROPER deal should go down..... Whether you are selling Studio time or Bicycles...
If I get messed around, I will have his mailing address to catch up with him eventually...
It's a deal and a favour... especially at that price..... so does that give ME the right to screw the person... cause it's a priced favour?????
NO!, and everyone knows that.....
It's natural to be protective over a fellow high-poster.. but we all
know the ethics and whats right and wrong....
I like mowing lawns and do a nice job at it.... I will do anyones lawn here for $2.00 But It will take me all summer to get to it, cause im sick...and by the time august comes it will be waist high, and I will still be giving you the run-around....
But at $2.00 (that you paid me at the beginning of the summer) it's a fucking deal, so you are not allowed to complain....
Just sit and watch it grow.....
hhhhmmmmm?
(PS, that lawn mowing scenario was hypothetical, I will not cut anyones lawn... Hell, I don't even cut mine, I pay landscapers for that.....)
Khompewtur
*Retired*
Gums, that it. You said it exactly the way i see it.
Actually I wanna hire you to speak on my behalf at my next job interview.
Actually I wanna hire you to speak on my behalf at my next job interview.
Eurythmic
majordomo plasticomo
That happens everywhere. BBS's have existed for over twenty years now. And in the nearly a decade that I've been "BBS'ing", never once have the members of the board been anything but slow to accept me.
You've got nothing but a handle to identify yourself. People want to get to know you. Command respect, don't demand it.
It's only natural to get the "Who the hell are YOU, then?" response if you pop onto a forum and start raking the mud within your first five posts.
You're a newb. One day, you'll be oldskool. It doesn't matter who you are, or what you've done before. When you start out on a new BBS, you're a newb.
You'll grow to like the system. The self-policing aspect of BBS's was one of the best things to be carried over when the world went to the Internet.
</rant>