Getting started

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RelientKurt

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Hi all,

I've decided that I love the whole concept of analog, and want to start doing analog recording. I record my own music--indie music with lots of instruments and things.

I'm looking for advice on a starting point--what the best way to go about this? My only investment in doing digital is that I purchased an Akai EIE interface. I have no problem with it, but want to get going with analog. I have a MacBook pro, 3 different mice, mic cables, etc. etc.

What is the most important thing, or 2-3 most important things, I can buy? Also, if any of you have written elsewhere on getting started with analog recording, feel free to send a link.

Thanks!
 
on the most basic level, you need a tape recorder and a mixing board. there are lots of options there, dependent mainly upon your goals. A basic way to start out would be with a Teac/Tascam or Otari 1/2" 8-track and one of the '70s-'90s mixers that were designed to go along with that setup.
 
I second that, and to clarify I have the following questions:

1. How many simultaneous sources do you have at the most at any given time?
2. How many independent tracks to you want/need?
3. If you do intend to "multitrack" to tape, do you want to master to tape as well or will you master to digital?
4. Do you track with others or just solo?

The answers to these questions will drive the equipment needs and whether or not you need a multitrack deck and/or a mastering deck, and how many channels and busses you need on your mixer as well as monitoring facilities.
 
Also, what's your budget? I don't want to dissuade you, but I want you to know what you're getting into.

Compared to a basic home digital setup, analog can get a little pricey depending on what you need. Whereas you can add a $200 8-channel A/I and a $40 (or so) Reaper program to your existing computer and have most of the bases covered with decent free plug-ins in the digital world, analog is almost always going to run a good bit more than that.

Besides the multi-track ATR and mixer, you'll (most likely) need some outboard gear such as reverb, delay, compressors, etc. Again, this is depending on what exactly you want to do.

Of course, an alternative to the ATR/mixer combo is something like a Tascam 388 (1/4" reel to reel and mixer combo) or even a Tascam 246 4-track cassette deck. (You just said "analog," so I don't know if you specifically mean R2R or are open to cassette as well.)

The biggest downside with stepping into the analog world from the digital world (assuming you're not made of money) is the fact that much of the equipment you buy will most likely need servicing at one point, if not right away. Much of this stuff is from the 80s or earlier, and things tend to wear out in that time. The good news is that there are places like this with a lot of helpful people in this regard.

If you're stepping into the analog world from nothing, I'd say you should expect to pay about at least $1000 for an 8-track setup that included the tape machine, mixer, a few outboard FX processors, and a few channels of outboard compression. That would most likely be a 1/4" tape model.

If you were able to get working units for under that, I'd be astounded. Of course, there's always the amazing deal, but based on going prices on ebay/CL/etc., it adds up.
 
Thanks for the replies, guys.

Before I answer, a couple things I also want to mention:

I'm fairly new to recording in general. I currently have a decent setup for recording digitally, so I'm also open to just adding to what I already have.

Now, to follow up from your questions:

1. How many instruments at the same time: Since I primarily record by myself and play most of the instruments other than drums, usually it's one at a time. That said, I would like to have at least two inputs if only for mic-ing a piano in 2 different spots and things like that.

2. How many tracks needed: I'd say up to eight, not counting drums. By "tracks", I am assuming basically this means how many instruments on a given recording.

3. Mastering to tape or digital: Here's where I show myself as a mouth-breathing newbie. I don't really know the answer to this question. If I want to make my music available online and/or on CD, doesn't it have to be mastered digitally? I think I'm just not up on the terms.

4. Tracking with others, or solo: If it's my own indie music, it's almost always solo. If I want to record with a couple other guys in a jazz trio, that's the kind of music that needs to have everyone recorded at the same time...is this question different from the first question?

5. Budget: Zero budget, but I'm not worried about that, because I'm willing to make this happen gradually.

6. Goals: Recording music to be released and sold. Play gigs, take over the world. etc. etc.

I never got started with EQing, whether digital or analog. I've been making basic "sketches" of songs by multitracking on GarageBand, but have been tweaking these songs (on paper and in my head) and want to record them to be released. I record myself; this is all home recording (and perhaps recording in other places as I'm able, such as recording a piano in a church or recording in a big empty room with hardwood floors, but not paying somebody or going to a studio).
 
Got Calibration?

Another thing you will need to learn is how to calibrate analog equipment as well as maintain it. Have you ever used an oscillocope or digital volt meter? Do you know how to demagnetize heads or clean them? Do you know what storing tape tails out means? Lots of stuff to learn, but you said you plan to work into it - just be sure you want to take on this other stuff too.

Just friendly input....nf
 
3. There are a couple different steps when taking your multitrack project from X tracks to the final stereo mix. Mixdown is the process of mixing your multiple tracks to stereo. "Mastering" may take place during mixdown or may be applied to the stereo mix at a later time but may involve additional eq'ing and dynamics processing (compression/expansion) or other spectral processing. You can mix down to any medium and/or master to any medium. There are arguments for mixing to tape or to digital, mixing to tape and mastering to digital, blahblahblah. Good news is you can try different methods over time and see what works best for you process-wise. Regardless of whether or not tape is involved in the mixing or mastering process, you can transfer the mix to digital at any point and burn a CD from that, or another popular option is to mix/master straight to a CD recorder. Lots of options. If you have no budget and want to multitrack to tape, I wouldn't worry about mixing/mastering to tape at this point because it involves a whole 'nuther tape deck and possibly different tape width and cal tape etc., etc., etc. sounds like you already have the means to track to a digital medium so I'd recommend you use that hardware to record your mixdown.

4. Sort of the same question but with a different purpose; to get an idea of what kind of monitoring and cue mix functionality you need in a mixer.

Yeah if I were you with zero budget you could do well with a 1/4" 8-track Fostex deck (Model 80 or R8) and an 8 x 2 mixer so long as it has direct outs, and some means of monitoring tape returns during tracking. I'm most familiar with the Tascam mixers but an M-30, M-35, M-308 or M-1508 are some suggestions to get you started.

Expect some TLC needed on any of this stuff as mentioned previously, but help is indeed here.
 
OK, so multitracking to tape simply means that I record onto a TASCAM or something like it, and then send it onto my computer for the mixing? Will I lose some of this delicious "mid-range" that analog supposedly picks up so well?

I like the idea of doing EQ's by hand on a mixing board rather than electronically in a program. Wouldn't this also address the stereo thing, as I pan each track individually? Or does that not happen on mixing boards?

night1fly, I don't know a thing about any of that. But I'm OK with it. Glad to see there are a bunch of other people enthusiastic about it and willing to be learning resources!
 
Another thing you will need to learn is how to calibrate analog equipment as well as maintain it. Have you ever used an oscillocope or digital volt meter? Do you know how to demagnetize heads or clean them? Do you know what storing tape tails out means? Lots of stuff to learn, but you said you plan to work into it - just be sure you want to take on this other stuff too.

Just friendly input....nf

You beat me to it Nighty!

I do despair of the ignorance of people coming to audio forums about THE most basic of electrical matters.
Most of these people can read and write! Many in more than one language (I have a smattering of schoolboy French from 55yrs ago). I guess many can drive a car? Work VCR/HDD recorder? Are a whizz with an iPhone/pod/pad? and yet they scream stuck pig at Ohms Law which is just M.P.H. or M.P.G. They cringe if you ask them to follow the most basic of signal flow diagrams and have not clue One about signal voltage levels or decibels nor are prepared to put in a milliJoule of effort to learn!

All this is bad enough in the digital domain but analogue has vastly worse headroom and noise levels and you really need to know your electronic onions to plough that very narrow path.

Dave. (yes, I know! The Joule is not the SI unit of effort! No doubt some SA will put me right?)
 
This why its good to come to the analog forum. There is going to be a learning curve for any new direction one takes. Nothing could be better for a recordist to have to work with real physical signal flow to get a better understanding of the digital counterpart that tries to emulate the original analog concepts ITB. So what a person is doing that comes from digital to analog is expanding their understanding and expertise. Maintenance issues and costs won't be a new thing to the new analog user. They should already know by using a DAW that there is no real turn-key technology. Do they work on their own computers? Do they install and maintain OS and programs themselves or do they take everything in for service? Do they understand how important it is to tweak a computer and OS for DAW use? Most people don't. You can't know it all in the beginning. It's always a process that takes time.
 
What I started out with was getting a stereo machine and recording the final mixes to that. (This was all live-from-sequencer instrumental stuff at the time, it was intended as a background score).

Once I got comfortable with that, I got an 8-track deck, a simple 8-to-2 mixer and a digital FX processor to provide reverb and delay. I wanted to multitrack off the sequencer, so I needed a timecode unit as well (and this takes up one of the tracks for the timing data), and aside from an early misstep involving a broken-down Fostex A8 from ebay, it all went smoothly.


WRT multitracking and track count, each track is a single mono channel. If you need to record an instrument in stereo (e.g. drums) you will need to use two tracks, for left and right. As mentioned, the mixing stage sets the panning position of each track, so you would set one of them to left, the other to right.

On the TSR-8 I would often have something like this:

1. Bass
2. Organ
3. Lead synth
4. Mellotron strings / string synth
5. Drums (L)
6. Drums (R)
7. Vocals
8. Timecode track

One thing which I do is that I have a two mixers in the signal chain. There's a front-end one which all the instruments are hooked up to. I can add echo, equalisation and other effects to the tracks being recorded on the multitrack. From there I have a stereo output from the mixer. This has to go into the multitrack in such a way that you can control which tracks they are assigned to.
Originally I used a 4-way switch box (a hifi input switcher being used in reverse), but later I made a 4-way Y lead as described in the Fostex manual for the A8. That splits the signal so the left output goes to tracks 1,3,5,7 and the right output goes to 2,4,6,8. You could use a patch bay instead. This works well if you're doing the solo artist thing, but if you're recording everything at once you'll need a patchbay or a mixing desk with more than 2 outputs.

This was one of the earlier setups: http://dougtheeagle.com/lab/lab2004.jpg
...the little mixer on the left by the keyboard was the front-end mixer for the instruments. The other one on the right by the tape decks was used for mixdown. The machine on the far right was the stereo recorder.


I'm using a 24-track deck now and a lot of other upgrades, but the principle is basically the same - the MSR-24 can echo the first 8 inputs to tracks 9-16 and 17-24, so the old 4-way Y lead is still working nicely.
 
OK, so multitracking to tape simply means that I record onto a TASCAM or something like it, and then send it onto my computer for the mixing? Will I lose some of this delicious "mid-range" that analog supposedly picks up so well?

I like the idea of doing EQ's by hand on a mixing board rather than electronically in a program. Wouldn't this also address the stereo thing, as I pan each track individually? Or does that not happen on mixing boards?

night1fly, I don't know a thing about any of that. But I'm OK with it. Glad to see there are a bunch of other people enthusiastic about it and willing to be learning resources!

Whatever mixing you can do with your DAW is patterned after an analog process using a real mixer. When transferring to digital from analog you retain most of the advantages of tracking to analog.
 
OK, so multitracking to tape simply means that I record onto a TASCAM or something like it, and then send it onto my computer for the mixing? Will I lose some of this delicious "mid-range" that analog supposedly picks up so well?

I like the idea of doing EQ's by hand on a mixing board rather than electronically in a program. Wouldn't this also address the stereo thing, as I pan each track individually? Or does that not happen on mixing boards?

night1fly, I don't know a thing about any of that. But I'm OK with it. Glad to see there are a bunch of other people enthusiastic about it and willing to be learning resources!

Just to clarify: You normally wouldn't send the tracks into your computer for mixing. Some people do this, but most people who want to "record analog" usually like to mix analog as well.

So here's how it would basically work:

1. You get (let's say) an 8-track RTR machine and a mixer with 8 or 16 channels most likely. It would need at least 2 sub outs, but 4 would be preferable. These are known as 8x2, 8x4, 16x2, or 16x4 mixers, FYI. If you don't have 4 sub outs, then direct outs would be mighty handy.

2. You plug a mic into channel 1 on your mixer (let's say) to record an acoustic guitar. That channel is routed to track 1 on your RTR. There are several ways this could be done. If you have a direct out, it could just go from the direct out on CH 1 of the mixer straight into TRK 1 (or any track) on the RTR. Or you could assign the acoustic guitar to one of the sub outs on your mixer, and that sub out could go to TRK 1 on the RTR.

3. You would have all 8 outputs from your RTR patched into tracks 1-8 of your mixer to hear them on playback. This is where things get a little tricky depending on how versatile your mixer is. If you have a 16 channel mixer (FYI, I got my Tascam M-216 for $100, which is a 16x4 mixer), you can just use CHs 1-8 on your mixer for playback and then use CHs 9-16 for recording signals. (So, in this example, you would plug the acoustic mic into CH 9 of your mixer, let's say, instead of CH 1.)

If your mixer has only 8 CH, you can usually still make that work because the mixer will most likely have "tape in" jacks for those 8 CH. (The Tascam M-30, for instance, which Sweetbeats mentioned, is like this.) These jacks are meant for the playback from your multi-track RTR. To hear these playback tracks, they're routed to a separate submix called a "cue" mix. This allows you to use the CH on the mixer for recording (in which case you'd send the signal to the RTR via a direct out jack or assign it to a sub out) and also listening to the tracks recorded on the RTR. Each CH on the mixer will have a CUE knob, and by turning that up, it routes the signal to a CUE jack on the back, which can go to speakers, or it also routes it to the headphone jack.

This is essential for overdubbing. Once you've recorded your acoustic on TRK 1, you obviously need to be able to hear that while recording on another track.

4. After you've recorded all your tracks, you won't use the CUE mix for the playback tracks anymore. The purpose of the mixing board changes here, and you're in "mixdown." You'll assign all CHs to the main mix (or sub groups 1 and 2, depending on how your board is set up). You'd plug the L/R output (or sub 1 and 2 output) jacks into two channels on your computer A/I, set it to monitor the line input, and monitor the signal through the speakers from there.

A) Each CH on the mixer will have EQ on it, so you can make additional EQ adjustments here (you can also do this when you record the tracks as well).

B) Each CH on the mixer will also most likely have 1 or 2 FX sends. These are represented by knobs on the front panel. There will be an FX send jack on the back of the mixer. You'd connect it to (let's say) the input on a reverb unit, and you'd connect the outputs of the reverb unit back to the mixer. You can either plug the output of the reverb unit into the FX return on the mixer (if it has them), or you can also bring the reverb signal(s) back into extra channels on the mixer if you have them. If you're using a 16-CH mixer, for instance, you'd have CHs 9-16 open at this point. This is ideal because it allows you to EQ the reverb if you'd like!

The more sends you have, the more effects you can use. (Really awesome pro boards will have 8 sends or more, but you'll be lucky to have two on an 8 or 16 CH board.) Your board may also have "insert" jacks on each CH. These are TRS jacks that all you to use a TRS Y cord so that one can connect to the input of a processor (delay, let's say), and the other can connect to the output. So the signal would come from the tape machine into the CH on the mixer, go out the insert jack into the delay, come out the delay back into the insert jack, and then proceed on down the CH to the EQ, etc. This allows you to put an effect on only one instrument. The FX send, however, allows you to add an effect to several tracks at once, if you want. If you want the same reverb on the vocal and acoustic, for instance, you'd hook the reverb up to the FX send loop. Then you'd turn up the FX send knob on the vocal and acoustic channels. You can set them independently (if you wanted more verb on the acoustic than the vocal, let's say). Then those two channels are blended together, sent out the FX send jack into the reverb unit, which would be set to 100% wet (effect), and then returned through either the return jacks or extra channels on the mixer. Either way, there will be some way to control the level of this reverb signal. So you can control how much of the reverb you want added to the mix.

C) Each CH on the mixer will have a pan knob, so you can adjust where it sits in the L to R stereo field.

D) Each CH on the mixer will also have a level control, which is usually a fader. This allows you to adjust the relative level of each track.

E) The mixer will also have a master fader or faders. This is the volume that's being sent out the L/R (or sub 1 and 2) jacks. Ideally, this should be set to the shaded area for best S/N ratio. This is usually around 7-8. If you have this fader(s) set here, and your levels are distorting the board, then you need to lower the levels of all the TRKs. If you're not getting a strong enough level, then you'd need to raise the level of all the TRKs. Obviously, it's best if you just start mixing with the master fader at optimum (7-8), and then you won't have that issue.

Once you get a good mix, you record it to two tracks on your computer, and you're done!

I actually meant for this to be a quick response, but I obviously covered a lot of ground here. Hopefully it all makes sense, but feel free to ask questions if it doesn't.

I should also say that ever mixer is slightly different, and every person is too. Some people do things differently than others, but I think this is a fairly common M.O.
 
... and since this is a low budget endeavor, it might be a good idea to start out with a cassette 4-track. As long as you get one in decent working order, they are the most 'plug and play' analog recorder. I didn't know the first thing about recording, and I was making completed 'productions' (bouncing and everything) from the day I bought my Tascam Porta 5. Just get a manual too, and you're basically ready to go. To this day, the recordings I made on that (including the very first one - 1997) still sound pretty neat.

Previously, I bought a Teac 3340S 1/4" (reel) 4-track, and I couldn't really make good recordings on it because I didn't know what I was doing and it had some tech. problems. There's something to be said for getting something straightforward right off the bat, then moving along as you learn.
 
... and since this is a low budget endeavor, it might be a good idea to start out with a cassette 4-track. As long as you get one in decent working order, they are the most 'plug and play' analog recorder. I didn't know the first thing about recording, and I was making completed 'productions' (bouncing and everything) from the day I bought my Tascam Porta 5. Just get a manual too, and you're basically ready to go. To this day, the recordings I made on that (including the very first one - 1997) still sound pretty neat.

Previously, I bought a Teac 3340S 1/4" (reel) 4-track, and I couldn't really make good recordings on it because I didn't know what I was doing and it had some tech. problems. There's something to be said for getting something straightforward right off the bat, then moving along as you learn.

+1 to this.

And just to clarify, if you do go the cassette 4-track route, you won't need a mixer, because those units (with very exceptions) are a mixer/recorder combination.

Tascam units to check out would be:

246
244
144

or newer
424 (and MK II and MK III versions)
414 (and MK II version)

But I also got great results with a Yamaha MT50 and MT4x (more robust)

The Tascam 246 and 244 are awesome, but it's harder to find one in complete working condition. You'll have much better luck in this regard with the newer Tascam models or the Yamaha ones.

You can expect to pay between $225 to $350 or so for a good, working 246 or 244.

The newer Tascams can all be had in the $100 range in good working condition.

And the Yamaha MT50 can be found around $50 or $60 sometimes --- the MT4x a little more.

They're all capable of really nice sounds! :) I still have a 4-track (Tascam 246) and always will.
 
You guys are awesome. Great advice and informative posts. Kudos.

I'd really like to underscore the suggestion and value of starting with a cassette Portastudio, and since it sounds like you would like to continue growing in the use of analog equipment and the analog process, I'd recommend the 424 series or the 24x series. Yes indeed there are offerings my other makers but the Tascam offerings will offer you the most community support which is important in your case. I'm steering you away from the 144 simply because community support will likely be least of all for this model (due to age and relative rarity at this point), and also guiding you away from the 414 ONLY BECAUSE IT POSSESSES A MORE FOCUSED FEATURE SET. I have actually always been drawn to the 414mkII...SO portable and capable of same quality recordings as its bigger siblings. It's very cool. BUT, I think te expanded mixing sections of the models I'm pushing will offer you a better education and some room to grow. Personally, I think a 424mkII or mkIII is your best bet...readily available in the $100 range, well supported, and the newest of the bunch (i.e. likey to, on average, require the least attention).

I know you talked about 8 tracks but a 4-track cassette-based machine will be SO much more affordable and you'll be up and tracking in no time...learning and having fun without the maintenance and repair curve for an open reel machine. Over time you'll have a better idea of what you want, and your expense on the cassette machine won't be any waste because I guarantee you'll be so attached to that unit and will likely find yourself using it as an economical scratch pad forever-more.

[EDIT]

And 4 vs 8 tracks to start will cause you to learn about bouncing and creatively working within limitations...one if the best parts of the "analog process" in our age of more-more-more for less-less-less. It's a cultural sickness.
 
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I used the 4-track cassette form 1997-2004 (even released an EP that was cut on it), then a 3340 4-track reel (the same one from '97), but it was having problems, so I quickly upgraded to a Teac 80-8 1/2" 8-track in 2005. Bought a Teac 3300 mix deck in 2008, then an Ampex 440 mono deck in 2010. Used that setup until last year when I got the Ampex 8-track. I'll probably eventually go 16-track if I ever come across a 3M M56 or M79 ... but I still find 8-track to be a pretty sweet spot, though still lots of pre-planning and bouncing, which is not necessarily a problem. Used the Teac Model 5 mixer from '05 till recently ... I bought a Studiomaster 8/4/2 which sound very nice and has a more flexible EQ.

All this is to say, as you learn about recording, you'll know when you have reached the point where it's time to upgrade. The good thing about analog is that it never really becomes obsolete. I still actually have a Porta 5 ... I bought it to replace my original one which busted. $35 on eBay. I can still play all of my old masters today.
 
I think it should be mentioned that as time marches on, finding gear that still works well is getting harder. I've purchased about 10-12 different tape machines over the last 5 years, and only 2 did not require immediate service.

Even the cassette 4 tracks are going to start having dry belts and such.

Don't let it deter you. But maybe look for a local tech who can repair this stuff and get to know him before you buy something. Find out what decks he knows well and consider those. Not to scare you - not all repairs are expensive. But you do have to be realistic.
 
Thanks everybody. Extensive hand-written notes have been taken on your replies.

So, to break it down, at the most fundamental level I need a tape recorder and a mixer (and some outboard gear).

And as a temporary fix, a 4-track tape recorder is a nice simple thing to learn on. It's also something I would like just for easily working out multi-instrument songs and pieces, so that's definitely on my priority list.

I do like the suggestion Leddy made about getting to know a local technician and learning from him before I make a significant purchase. Where do I find these technicians and stores? I Googled "recording gear"+"orange county", and I got nothing. Guess this is more of a tanning county. Well, I found a couple studios. What are these gear-selling places called?

Better yet, let me also ask this: How much have you all relied on eBay and craigslist to get your gear, or what other sites have you used? And (humor my stupid question) how can I find an actual store?
 
Better yet, let me also ask this: How much have you all relied on eBay and craigslist to get your gear, or what other sites have you used? And (humor my stupid question) how can I find an actual store?

Aside from things like tape (both reels and cassette), maybe cleaning supplies, etc., I've relied on CL and eBay almost exclusively in my search for major analog gear pieces (i.e., tape recorders, mixers, etc.). Practically none of it is made anymore, and so just about everything you buy will be used (or "new old stock," in rare occurrences, at best). And I've relied on CL and eBay for those other things as well --- just not as exclusively.
 
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