Getting Started - Recording Vocals and Guitar, what Equipment?

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jhaas

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I'm a guitar player who has been away from it for about 10 years. I'm now getting back into it, and much has changed around technology and recording since the mid-90's.

I've been working hard at improving my vocal skills, and have been working with a vocal coach. Now I'm at the point where I want to start recording my vocals with guitar (acoustic & electric), so I can hear how it sounds, see what works and what doesn't.

What is the best low cost method for me to go about recording my voice and guitar? I've just learned about audio interfaces for the PC - the M-Audio firewire solo, for example, but it seems like there are a lot of options out there, and I could really use some guidance.

I'm a software engineer by trade, so I'm real comfortable w/ computers, but I've never used them for recording, or done any mixing via software. I see there are some multi-tracks that have built-in digital storage. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

John in Vermont
 
Ok mate.

I am new to this also, but I have just setup my studio at home as well.

Basically, if you only want to record vocals and guitar, you can get away with a 2 channel USB recorder. Something like the Edirol UA-25 (I have this model http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=704&ParentId=114 ) or the Tascam US-122 ( http://www.tascam.com/Products/US-122.html ). These can generally be had for around $500-600 AU Dollars retail. The only downside with USB, as you probably know being a software engineer, is that it's not the fastest interface around, and when you record multiple inputs, sometimes it can lag, and latency becomes a problem. Firewire is a good alternative, but once again, you're looking at more money.

There are a few things you need right off the bat.

1. A condensor microphone. I use a Samson CO1, but there are plenty of better ones available. The Samson set me back $200 AU Dollars, and does a fairly good job. But like I said, how far you want to go depends on how much money you have. If you want something to record demo's with, or get ideas down onto a track, then don't spend alot. If you want a really good sound, that you can perhaps make tracks to sell on a CD, etc, spend up big. But, I decided to spend small until I knew about the recording process, and what it involved. Shure, Rhode, etc, all do a fantasic condensor mic. But are pricey.

2. An external pre-amp. I use a behringer tube ultragain external preamp ( http://www.behringer.com/MIC200/index.cfm?lang=ENG ) and it helps to smooth out multiple tracks. It also boosts the signal from the mic to the Edirol unit i use, which is the main point of the pre-amp. The pre-amps in the edirol are good, but are nowhere near as good as getting an external pre-amp and adding it to the chain.

3. Some good speakers (monitors) to mix and master with. I use the Edirol monitors ( http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=746&ParentId=114 ), which I have just had to send away to be repaired under warranty after the right hand speaker developed a rattle inside the cabinet. They sounded good, and are perfect for listening to mid to high frequencies, which is predominantly what vocals + guitar are. They lack punchy bass, but adding a sub woofer later down the track can help this.

4. Some software you can record with. There are plenty of threads on this forum about software and what works. I use Sony Acid for mixing, Sony Vegas for recording, Sonic Foundry Sound Forge for effects and wav editing, and I am going to try Cubase SX v3 very soon. Pro Tools is the industry standard though. It's a matter of prefernce.

Once you have all these items, it's pretty much a matter of plugging in, working with the condensor mic, learning how to mic up the guitar (I put the condensor in front of the 12th fret) and playing with the software.

I have been playing with the software for about 8 month on and off, and have only just become happy with how my recordings come out.

Here is a sample song, Goo Goo Dolls, Slide. It was recorded in one night, and only had one take on most parts. I just wanted to see how good I could record something in one night.

Sample Song (5.83mb):


So yeah, My setup:

- Edirol UA-25 USB recorder
- Behringer Tube Ultragain Pre-amp
- Samson CO1 Condensor mic
- Sony Vegas, Acid Pro, Soundforge

Anyway, any more questions just ask :)

Regards,
Chris
 
jhaas said:
I'm a software engineer by trade, so I'm real comfortable w/ computers, but I've never used them for recording, or done any mixing via software. I see there are some multi-tracks that have built-in digital storage. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

John in Vermont
Click to expand...
If you're already comfortable with PCs,don't even think about a modular recorder!A computer will be much more powerful,versital and expandable.I'm fairly computer illiterate and I've been PC recording for 5 years w/relatively little trouble!
 
Acoustic_Daddy said:
Ok mate.

I am new to this also, but I have just setup my studio at home as well.

Basically, if you only want to record vocals and guitar, you can get away with a 2 channel USB recorder. Something like the Edirol UA-25 (I have this model http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=704&ParentId=114 ) or the Tascam US-122 ( http://www.tascam.com/Products/US-122.html ). These can generally be had for around $500-600 AU Dollars retail.
Click to expand...

Ouch. That's literally double what they cost in the U.S. If you can find somebody in the U.S. who will ship globally, I can't imagine you'd pay anywhere near that much, even with overseas shipping and whatever import duties you had to pay.... :D

Personally, I'm partial to the Presonus line. You can get a FireBox for about US$299, which is about AU$397. Of course, that's plus shipping and input duty/VAT/whatever. For example, the eBay seller below will ship worldwide. You might contact them and find out what the final cost would be to import it.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Presonus-FIR...NameZWD2VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ShippingPayment
 
if it was 10 years into the future and I was looking back to now and wanting to do the same as you I'd probably pick up a Studio Projects B1 LDC. That'll do you a great job on vocals and acoustic guitar way infront of the samson CO1. M-Audio DMP3 pre and an M-Audio 24/96 recording card. If you're recording electric guitar through an amp I'd pick up a sure SM57, it's bog standard and is the dynamic workhorse the SP B1 is of the LDC world, it'll work on anything.

Software wise there are many routes to take. Apart from the free stuff, if you don't need midi then cool edit/audobe audition is solid. I've only used that and cubase Sx so my oppinion may be bias here but I'm sure you'll get more suggestions. Samplitude gets good press around here but I can't comment first hand on it.

Good luck with your search...oh yeah, use the search. It's a god send
 
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Check my sig. Two good microphones, a four input Firewire interface, and high quality software. With that I'm recording two guitars, one strictly acoustic, the other is acoustic with a pickup. We add a bass guitar and a keyboard. 3 to 6 vocal parts. So far, I've got all I need.
 
if your recording electric guitar and with distortion, a sm57 is a very good investment. a condenser mic i think can be good for this as well. assuming that you may be using alot of distortion.
 
I checked out your link to the goo goo dolls song you recorded.
Did you use a lone samson C01 for guitar and vocals and record them seperately? It sounds good, a bit thin....... but very pleasing sound overall. No harshness, and most of all it seems very 'real' sounding. For an LDC like the C01, what kind of mic placement did you end up with for mic'ing the guitar?
 
LemonTree said:
if it was 10 years into the future and I was looking back to now and wanting to do the same as you I'd probably pick up a Studio Projects B1 LDC. That'll do you a great job on vocals and acoustic guitar way infront of the samson CO1. M-Audio DMP3 pre and an M-Audio 24/96 recording card. If you're recording electric guitar through an amp I'd pick up a sure SM57, it's bog standard and is the dynamic workhorse the SP B1 is of the LDC world, it'll work on anything.

Software wise there are many routes to take. Apart from the free stuff, if you don't need midi then cool edit/audobe audition is solid. I've only used that and cubase Sx so my oppinion may be bias here but I'm sure you'll get more suggestions. Samplitude gets good press around here but I can't comment first hand on it.

Good luck with your search...oh yeah, use the search. It's a god send
Click to expand...

Good advice 1+
 
goodbyebluesky said:
I checked out your link to the goo goo dolls song you recorded.
Did you use a lone samson C01 for guitar and vocals and record them seperately? It sounds good, a bit thin....... but very pleasing sound overall. No harshness, and most of all it seems very 'real' sounding. For an LDC like the C01, what kind of mic placement did you end up with for mic'ing the guitar?
Click to expand...

Heya mate.

I used the CO1 for the vocals. The guitar was recorded differently.

I ended up using the preamp in my guitar, to the behringer ultragain tube preamp, then into my USB recorder. So the guitar wasn't miced. I just bought a Takamine acoustic, with a Cooltube preamp, so i'm running it straight into the desk. The sound is a bit thin, but i'm still playing with the EQ on the preamps to make it a bit fuller. Overall, I don't get any hissing from background noise in the guitar track, which makes for a better recording.

Sorry to hijack your thread jhaas.. :(

P.S: What does LDC mean?
 
I surprised myself today, recording my sister, who is also a singer, and only using an MP3 backing track, then my C01 to record her in my room. The C01, being the lower priced microphone in the market, worked quite well and I am really, really impressed with the sound i got from it.

Here is the track. It's Sarah Mclachlan's Angel, from the movie City Of Angels.

It's a very hard to sing, and easy to stuff up. People who know the song will know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, I uploaded to my website.

Here it is:


I must say she is one hell of a good singer. And after some general lessons on condensor technique, she got the hang of it. There is no compressor on what you're hearing, just good mic technique.

Enjoy.

Oh, and if you're wondering what this has to do with this thread, I'm just showing that a lower priced mic can still be used to create a vocal that you could mistaken for being recorded in a 'proper' recording studio ;)

Regards,
Chris
 
Hey Thanks guys for the info. I do have an SM57 already, and after some web research I was planning on checking out the Studio Projects B1, and now I'll check out the C01 as well.

No one mentioned the digital multi-track option, but since I posted this last week, I've ordered a Fostex MR-8. Should fit the bill for the short term anyway. It was a "blemished" version for $180, and I figured for that, I couldn't go wrong.

Hey Chris - lookin' forward to hearing your version of Slide. I've been a Goo Goo fan since Jed, and have been gonna play around with one of those acoustic tracks off that album, but have been too lazy to re-tune the guitar for it. Does anyone use standard tuning anymore??? Guess I just need more than one acoustic, eh?

-John
 
might i suggest something... find a good one.. save a bit more cash...then buy the good one.... you'll be glad you did in the long run
 
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