Getting songs up to a commercial volume??

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Re-tox_stl

Re-tox_stl

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Hey all, I just have a quick question. For some reason I cant get any songs I record up to the volume of other professional songs. I have tried limiting, I have tried just jacking the output volume up, but nothing works. So any help would be appreciated =)

Thanks, Drew
 
getting your levels up to a comercial cd should be done when mastering. are you talking about mixing or mastering?
 
Without hearing your song I'm only guessing...

If the bass is boomy then you're wasting valuable space on that, maybe check that.

I've had songs that I eq'd some boom out, resulting in the the VU level going down, and then when I boosted them up again the vocals and lead instruments had a lot more presence.
 
For some reason I cant get any songs I record up to the volume of other professional songs. I have tried limiting, I have tried just jacking the output volume up, but nothing works. So any help would be appreciated =)
Getting your tracks to reach a commercial level with out having the sound suck so much takes a lot of practice and many sleepless nights. It's a dirty job, but someone gotta to do it. ; )
 
Hey all, I just have a quick question. For some reason I cant get any songs I record up to the volume of other professional songs. I have tried limiting, I have tried just jacking the output volume up, but nothing works. So any help would be appreciated =)

Thanks, Drew
Try recording them at a lower volume like -18dbFS. Mix your tracks exporting a stereo file at about -6dbFS. Then import the stereo file and raise the final gain using the limiter if needed. Keep in mind you don't want things too loud to.
 
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Getting your tracks to reach a commercial level with out having the sound suck so much takes a lot of practice and many sleepless nights.
So much practice in fact that nobody yet has been able to do it. I hope somebody hits the required amount of practice and sleepless nights soon, because it would be awesome to hear something with sound that didn't suck at least one more time before I die.


My copy n' paste rant on the matter:

The easiest way to put value back into our music is to knock off the damn loudness. I have heard the argument that nobody cares about sound quality. I agree, nobody cares about sound quality. So why wring every last drop of life out of a recording in pursuit of a sound that will “grab” people if we all agree that nobody gives a flyin’ fuck about the sound? They don’t care. They turned it down anyway so it’s not even loud while they listen.

But here is what did happen:
*The few people who do care not only didn’t buy the album, they stopped buying altogether out of the very real fear that any random album off the shelf is now unlistenable.
*Everybody else in the world now has music that hums along at a constant din, never falling behind the foreground noise. Therefore they no longer have to throw any brain cells towards the song to keep focus on the melody. Therefore they never have to shut down Facebook or put down the cell phone and dedicate time for just the music. Therefore they don’t bond with the music. It is now background. They don’t pay for background. They don’t care if background lives or dies. They feel no guilt in harming the people who create background. Background does not move them.

And I know the artists themselves are the ones pushing for loudness. I know they are the ones handing over the money. I know the customer is the boss. I also know the customer can’t produce an album, or else he wouldn’t be paying others to produce an album. Maybe the customer isn’t always right…

Here is the thing: It is the artist’s vision. And nobody has any business “correcting” that vision. But “loud” is not something that can be forced onto the listener in the world of recorded music. Not when the customer has a volume knob. A writer says his vision is for a loud song. Absolutely nothing done in the studio at any part of the production process will guarantee loud playback. Some things could “encourage” loud playback… Drums that push some air when allowed to, guitars that don’t duck for cover behind larger sounds when the limiter comes knocking, upper mids that aren’t shrill…pretty much the opposite of what we are doing right now. Music that the listener wants to blast… that is what will create loud playback.

So we have tried educating the artists. And the entire campaign has been mis-managed in the worst way possible. We go on about dynamics, fatigue, sonic clarity, lack of distortion, preserving transients… and worst of all we keep chanting “too loud!”. We sound old. We sound out of touch. We sound like we just don’t want to rock. Enough. Let us never again scold a 22 year-old musician for adding clipping and distortion to his music. Let us never EVER again tell a young kid that something he did is too loud.

Try this on for size:
Limiters, compressors and clipping do one thing: They turn shit DOWN! That drum hit was supposed to be louder. It is not. The clipper made it quiet. That bass drum was supposed to kick me in my chest and push me through the wall. It didn’t because we used a high-pass to squeeze out a higher RMS and then the limiter stomped all over whatever balls were left. Those cymbals are supposed to bring the energy. They don’t when they literally duck the bass and snare drums.

Worried the disc will be quieter if left uncrushed? It won’t be. Crushing has not made music louder in the first place. Travel back to 1994 with me and step into my Pontiac. Hear that mix tape I'm playing? Are you holding your ears? Yeah? It can go louder you know. But this is as much volume as my rowdy hormone-charged 16 year old self can handle, so the knob is staying here. If we stuck around for the party this weekend it would be more of the same. You can’t hear yourself talk above those tunes. Fast-forward back to 2010...How can we say music is louder today when it was already at the threshold of pain back then? Music is not louder today. The volume knob is just further to the left and the sound is destroyed.

We are not the voice of the singer’s father telling him to turn that shit down. We are the voice of reason trying to help him rock as hard as possible, keep his audience, and claw out of the background and into the foreground.


And there is no reason this can’t happen RIGHT NOW. Storage is almost free. Create and sell two versions of the album if you can’t talk the band down. One good, one crushed. Can’t afford two masters you say? You don’t need two masters. Have a professional talented mastering artist make the best version possible. If that means crushed, if that actually is an artistic intent (I’m looking at MGMT and not too many other bands), then by all means do it. Just make the absolute best master possible with no consideration for anything else. That is your good release. Then have the intern or a trained helper monkey wring it through a loudenator. That is your loud release. Yes, the proper mastering engineer can make a better crushed song. So what? We’ve already established that the defense for crushing is nobody cares what it sounds like. So let it go. You have two versions now and only had to pay real money for the good one. Print a double-sided disc. Or print single sided but throw the crushed version on the extra space as a 128 kbps mp3. Hell, program a player that reads multi-channel FLACs with one version on channels 1 and 2 and the other version on channels 3 and 4.
 
it would be awesome to hear something with sound that didn't suck at least one more time before I die.
I think you missed the "; )"

Since you can't find any good albums to listen to, here are a few albums that I will recommend that just came out in the last couple months that you should check out.

Jeff Beck "Emotion Commotion"
Neil Young "Le Noise"
Tom Petty "Mojo"
Sarah Mclaughlin "Laws of Illusion"
Eric Clapton "Clapton"

When your done listening to these, let me know. I will gladly recommend some more. ; )
 
I think you missed the "; )"

Since you can't find any good albums to listen to, here are a few albums that I will recommend that just came out in the last couple months that you should check out.

Jeff Beck "Emotion Commotion"
Neil Young "Le Noise"
Tom Petty "Mojo"
Sarah Mclaughlin "Laws of Illusion"
Eric Clapton "Clapton"

When your done listening to these, let me know. I will gladly recommend some more. ; )
Tom Petty came out good? Thank God. I really want to hear that. Honestly, I will look at those and probably buy most of them. Recommend all you want. I need this stuff.
 
Alright. I just got the Tom Petty CD. So far I've only listened in my car on the way back from the store. Initial thoughts:

Yeah, it does sound good. Really good. The recording is killer with fantastic sounds all around, and I have heard evidence that actual humans are playing this stuff including a drum dynamic around 1:00 into the first song and what felt like a speed up in tempo somewhere around the middle of the second song. That shit makes me smile.

But still... I am hearing a ceiling very clearly throughout the CD. I haven't had a chance to A/B it with a known loudness war CD or look at it in a wave editor, but it sounds very compressed and the lows sound "loudness mushy". I can shrug off the mushy lows. The invisible ceiling confining the songs to such a small size is supremely annoy however.

So, kudos that it does in fact sound very good.
Jeers that it was badly damaged by the loudenator anyway.
I would kill for a proper version of this. Is there a non-destroyed version anywhere? Possibly vinyl from a different master?


Edit: Oh yeah, and the songs are awesome too. :D
 
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I would kill for a proper version of this. Is there a non-destroyed version anywhere? Possibly vinyl from a different master?
Your in luck... Hear is a review of the vinyl:

The Sound

Chris Bellman, who has become one of the preeminent vinyl mastering engineers today, is aided by an obviously well-recorded album. Mojo carries a full, warm sound that is well-balanced, but particularly good at showcasing the creamy mids of the PAF Humbuckers in Campbell's Les Paul. Petty has made a point in recent interviews, of stating that the vinyl was mastered with a full dynamic range that might make it sound quieter than the standard cd version of the album. While not quite as dynamic as his 2008, lighter-sounding Mudcrutch record, Mojo is certainly more dynamic than a great majority of the electric guitar-driven rock albums currently being released. Audiophiles and fans of good sounding music can only hope that other acts follow suit by restoring the dynamic range (that can make rock music so exciting) back to their new releases.
 
Petty has made a point in recent interviews, of stating that the vinyl was mastered with a full dynamic range that might make it sound quieter than the standard cd version of the album.
Now if only he'd take the next logical step of doing the same thing with the CD version next time.

G.
 
Man, in a way I guess I'm blessed that my ears aren't as good as some of you guys. :eek:

Do you guys actually ENJOY listening to music????
 
Your in luck... Hear is a review of the vinyl:

Petty has made a point in recent interviews, of stating that the vinyl was mastered with a full dynamic range that might make it sound quieter than the standard cd version of the album.

Awesome. Looks like I'll be buying it...again. -_-'

I also have to check out the rest of the albums you recommended. I'm enjoying this one a lot.
I'm just so puzzled that they hit the CD that hard in mastering. Not one other thing about the production fits with that choice.
 
Your in luck... Hear is a review of the vinyl:

Mojo carries a full, warm sound that is well-balanced, but particularly good at showcasing the creamy mids of the PAF Humbuckers in Campbell's Les Paul.
Man, the vinyl master must really be different. The CD is super-bright. Warm is the last word I'd use to describe it. Crispy all the way. No cream to be found. Like I said above, it sounds very, very good, but the negative effects of the loudenation are obvious. Perhaps the loudenator replaced the warm cream with brittle crisp?
 
Man, in a way I guess I'm blessed that my ears aren't as good as some of you guys. :eek:

Do you guys actually ENJOY listening to music????

Wait. Sorry. I think I put this in the wrong thread. I could have sworn I was reading a thread where a few people were trashing almost everything about recorded music. This isn't it. Sorry.
 
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