getting rid of that karaoke vocal sound

S

sandwiches

New member
hi

i'm mixing a song at the moment, anyway, i've shown it to a few people, and they say that the vocals sort of sounds like its on "top of the music".

for example, that really amateurish sound when someone sings karoake. like the music was made, and the vocals were just put on top of it.

i was wondering, does anyone else have a similar problem and if so, have any tips to make the vocals sit more smoothly in with the rest of the instruments?

i have sorta tried adding reverb to it, which helps, but i think it is really easy to add too much reverb, and i think a drier voice suits this song a bit more. i don't really want it to sound like i'm singing in a footy stadium.

i have also tried putting the vocals a little quieter, but then the vocals are a little muddy.

if it'll help, the other instrumetns are guitars (clean and distorted), bass and drums.

thank you.
 
Sandwiches, I know exactly what you are going through! Been there, done that.

Actually, mine was wors3, the dude brought an actual karaoke Video CD with him as his backing track! Well, he knew a little bit and the one he brought was the one without an organ melody in the background so it wasn't that obvious it was a Karaoke piece. I had to rip that sound (minus vocals) from the Video CD and dumped the MONO backing to my HDR. Then he sang...

It was obvious of course that his voice, no matter how polished (I am certain he had enough practice at home with it), sits on top of the backing track. To solve this problem:

I added the same amount of verb to the backing track and his voice. Thereafter, I compressed both during the mix. Voila, sounds it was a real record. (All this with the understanding that you are doing your eq and mix right)

But if that doesn't work, read Blue Bear's article. We are lucky he offers these knowledge for free.

.
 
hmmm have you panned the guitars left and right? try doubling the main vocals and then lowering them....you get a little more presence out of them and that way you can have them be at lower levels. as far as mixing goes...thats all i can say unless you have a clip for us to hear.. and also sometimes the singer's voice can sound like an amateur and when put to professional sounding music will still sound like an amateur....for example Hillary Duff, Fe Fe Dobson, Bizmarke
 
hi guys...

ok i've decided to put a clip up.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/waiholiu/singles

click on the ones called Burnt.

you might have already heard an older version of it, i posted it ages ago at the clinic, but it's evolved, there's new layers on it.

anyway, tell me what you think is wrong.

last night, after posting that, i spent about 3 hours, mixing and EQing it, using some EQ charts, but it's hard.

can you all give me an opinion about the vocalists? i think his voice is really thin, and maybe rumble is right, its amateurish cause he's amateurish. but im confident it is possible to make it sound good.

there's this compromise i think. if i rise 200Hz, it strengthens his voice, but the vocals becomes muddy and if i lower 200HZ, he sounds very trebley, and very piercing and thin.

so far his settings are...

5kHZ : +4.3dB , 1q
200Hz : +1.4dB , 0.7q
1000Hz : -5dB , 1.5q
2000Hz : -3.6dB , 1.5q
 
why are you taking out at 1000 hz and 2000hz?? thats kind of where the vocals lie. if anything i would add a bump there and take it out of the guitars. that might help. dont add at 200! heh. the guitars and bass lie there.
 
Hey, sandwiches, i listened to the clip, you have a nice natural sound on everything overall, which is a great place to start from as an engineer. You can learn how to mess things up with too much crap later :).....

I know this is a totally hack strategy...I admit it.....but you should really try compressing the ever living shit out of that singer, either into the tape or when you track or during mixing, and see what results that gives you. Take it to an extreme and work your way back from there. His voice is thin and could use the magic of a good leveling amplifier.

The only singers I hear on the radio these days (college included) that aren't compressed to hell and back are folks like Norah Jones. However, Norah has a gift from God (or Vishnu, whichever you prefer :) ) With a singer like that it's "get the hell out of the way" for the engineer. You, on the other hand, can have a little more fun...

The rest of your track sounds so natural that you might have to compress the other instruments just a little more too to get it the vocal to "fit" properly.

Rent yourself a distressor (or any good compressor with as few knobs as possible) and have at it.
 
i think effective use of reverb is the only way to mask that amatuerish vocal sound.

i've been struggling with that as well, and just messing around with different types of reverb has helped me a lot in getting the vocals to "sit" better in the mix.

compressing the crap out of the vocal helps too. :D

good luck!
 
not bad

well the mix sounds pretty good. Very natural as someone stated before, but i would compress the vox more and definatly don't add at 200. That is all mud... i also woudn't take out at 1k. But rather make him sound more present by air sounds. Like boost 15 k just a bit or so with a fairly wide Q. Say around 1.2 to 1.4. That way it will sound more even in the high freq. But dont over do it. And possilby mess with that 5 k a bit. That is your presence there, but being he sounds like a very untrained singer and is kind of harsh you might be able to get rid of some of that by taking some 5k down a bit. But you will just have to experiment with it i guess... it is a very odd voice.
 
I don't want to sound harsh but your problem lies in your singer abilities. I do think, however that you can soup it up a little. Try adding a modulator set very light. A touch of delay and maybe a harmonizer set at unison would help. Again, not trying to attack anyone, just my opinion. Vocals set aside, i do think that the tracking was done good and Burnt has some definate potential!
 
I have to agree, that isn't the best vocal performance. It's pretty tough to make an inexperienced singer sound like a pro. Also, it sounds like a poor mic choice for his voice. Have him practice and retrack the vox, if possible.
 
hi,

firstly, thanks everybody for their replies. i do agree with the general consensus that the singer is the weakest link.

unfortunately, the singer is actually me! i just used a vocalist in the 3rd person because i find it gives me a more unbiased opinion, as people are more willing to criticise. i've been getting vocal lessons, but they are basically starting from the start and i'm still just learning all the proper breathing and posture so it hasn't helped yet.

i think tracks in the past (they're on the site too), the vocals hasn't been a major concern with reviewers, but only because i've sorta "cheated" and added reverb and doubled it and cut and clip mistakes and stuff. the aim for this song was to see if i could make my vocals stand on their own without all the modifications.

but yeah, maybe i will not leave it so dry, as it's pretty obvious i don't have the skills to pull it off.




about the microphone comment - unforunately, it is the only mic i have. it's a Shure BG-2 and it's a synamic mic for karaoke singing. maybe i should get a new one.
 
i don't quite get it

hang on a sec.......you're using a mic that's designed for karaoke, and you're complaining that your vocal sound "sounds karaokeish"? pardon me for being the smartass here (where's chessrock when you need him? :D), but might that be part of your problem? it's kinda like buying a civic and then complaining that it looks and drives like a civic.

my suggestion: get a decent mic and retrack the vocal.

i can't sing for shit, really, and my voice is nasally and kind of strident--still, i've managed to find a mic that flatters my voice, and when i've done 3 or 4 passes through a song, i usually have enough "bits" to comp a master vocal track from and when i'm done, it usually doesn't sound too terrible. yes, it's "cheating". but then again, the studio isn't all about documenting things the way they happen, it's about making things sound the best they can possibly be. comping tracks, double tracking, looping, using the same "pass" of the chorus time and again, reverb, compression, eq, you name it, it's all part of the game.


cheers and good luck,
wade
 
I am with Wade on this one.
If you don't want to spend a lot of money on a mic then see if you can pick up a used sm58 or something comparable. When I am playing live I use a Digital Reference AT mic that also does well in the studio. Cost me around fifty bucks new.
 
there are LOTS of used SM57, SM58, Senn e835, you name it, dynamic mics out there for $50.

for $80, you can get something like a Studio Projects B1. I have a B1 and LOVE it. it's great on some vocalists. It's not good on me, but it's very nice on several vocalists i've recorded. it's also very nice on a number of sources (amps, acoustic guitars, etc).

if you want better results, sometimes you've gotta look at the gear first.


cheers,
wade
 
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