Getting people to come back.

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UberGawkman

UberGawkman

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So, this describes our band: our shows keep getting better and better, everyshow we play never fails to bring the house down... I can't tell you how many autographs I've signed on cds... most people agree that we have something very original and distinct going about us... we're the kind of band people never forget. We have over 500 people on our email list.... half of which live here (200+ people).

So it makes me wonder... when we have a show come up, we flyer the hell out of it (our flyers are very entertaining to read, and attention-grabbing).... we tell our friends about it... we send out quite informative/funny emails about it.... we often try to have gimmicks/things special to each show that serve as an incentive to come see that particular show.

And when it comes down to it, our draw still sucks incredibly bad. We've been playing out for over a year, and the most we ever had come to see us was at our 3rd show we ever played. After that, the second most we've ever drawn was when we were releasing a new demo.

WHAT THE HELL ARE WE DOING WRONG?
 
Questions?

1.) Whats the cover Charge?

2.) What night do you play on?

3.) Do you consistently play new material or use the same playlist?

4.) Do you just inform those that have been coming or do you work exhaustively on getting new fans?

&

5.) Do you have a fan newsletter that keeps them informed about the band?


Now let me answer some of these for you........

1.) If its too much they ain't coming

2.) If its not Friday or Saturday attendance will always be lower

3.) I would not go to see the same band twice unless their was new material out

4.) Forget the people that have come in the past...they already know about you find new fans

5.) Well do you? Not one that tells them where they can come spend money to see you, but more in depth stuff about the band...with a section on play dates
 
gec said:
Questions?

1.) Whats the cover Charge?

2.) What night do you play on?

3.) Do you consistently play new material or use the same playlist?

4.) Do you just inform those that have been coming or do you work exhaustively on getting new fans?

&

5.) Do you have a fan newsletter that keeps them informed about the band?
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1. Usually between 5-7 bucks.

2. Usually Fridays/Saturdays. We try to avoid weekday shows, unless it's during spring break or during the summer when kids are out of school (we appeal to high schoolers/college kids the most, important fact I should have added).

3. We vary our playlist from show to show... constantly bring in a few new songs, dropping others, rotating older songs, etc.

4. We are constantly going to local shows, talking to fans, telling them about our band, giving out tons of free music samplers a week or two before shows with a flyer attached, having dedicated fans pass out flyers/cds to their buds.... etc. No, we definitely aren't slacking off on the promotion.... that's all we pretty much think about lately. We go to sleep trying to think of new ways to promote ourselves.... latest idea we've decided to try was to give those "man, you guys ruled!!!" guys a handful of cds with lyrics and our website address to their friends, we'll see how effective that is (that way, they don't just say, "I saw this band....", they say, "I saw this band... and here's what they sound like!"

5. This is the only one I can say we didn't do... although I'm not sure if our website would make an equivalent.... it's very entertaining, interactive and informative (I myself and our singer are both professional webmasters), we constantly get posts from people on our messageboards, etc. We could easily start a newsletter, we actually talked about doing it once, but what's the main benefit, what would you put on it, etc? We also read something about getting a band hotline.... this might not be a bad idea....


But yeah.... I'm not here in these forums for a "quick" solution, this is actually our last resort. We are as far from one of those "expect everything to come to us because we think we're good" bands as you'll get. I'm just trying to think if there's any little crucial element we may be looking over or missing.

And partly venting, too :D
 
well uber it can certainly be frustrating when you work hard promoting something and don't reach the expectations of th work. I got a phrase "It's not how hard you work", "It's how smart you work" but reading your reply leads be to believe you are doing both. I'm trying to come up with somemore solutions to your problem....lemmme think............... I'll sit on it for a day and get back to you :)
 
what kind of music scene is it? are there lots of groups and venues? how often do you play in your hometown? if people think they can see you every other weekend, they may not be as inclined to get off their asses on any particular night. unless, of course, that's where the party is, in which case they'll come any night..

if there are other interesting bands, we've found that opening up for each other or sharing gigs/sitting in together really can help spread awareness, bring in different audiences, and give people who've seen a lot of us another reason to come out, cause it mixes it up even more. of course, this requires a community rather than solely competitive approach among bands.
 
In the corporate world, the terminology is CRM.

Stands for Customer Relationship Mangement. And in order to survive, you need to develop a strong CRM strategy in order to get repeat business.

The guests to your shows are your customers. The better contact you can have with them, the greater percentage of them will return to your future shows. What you should be doing is walking around in between sets and collecting all of their email addresses . . . or at least as many as humanly possible. Conduct a drawing with a free prize to the winner selected at random. And make it an email thing. "Submit your email address for a chance to win." Then after your show, select an email address at random, and tell them they and two of their friends win free admission and drinks to your next show. And don't be cheap! This is a marketing expense, and marketing isn't free.

As you continue to collect email addresses by the boatload, you need to keep track of them all. At each show, take pictures of the audience (as long as their not too embarrassing) and forward the good ones to everyone on your email list. This will make them feel like a part of your band.

As your email address grows, so will the response rate you get out of them. I used to find that I would get about a 5-10% response rate to the promotional emails I would send out. In other words, if I have 100 people on my email list and I send them an advertisement to my upcoming show, I can expect about 5 to 10 of them to show.

That's not a lot, which means you have to collect as many emails as possible. Should you ever grow it to 1000 or more emails, then now you're talking! A 1,000 email blast can reasonably expect to draw between 50-100 people, just from that list alone.

That's on top of the new people that come in (those not on your email list) as well general traffic from the streets. That can turn in to a pretty sizeable crowd.

Think "Soul Cracker." :)
 
honest questions and answers

where do you play ?bars where people just come to get drunk and pick up in eachother or clubs that cater to "music" and your age group and style of music.?
i ask this because asking your fans to come to a cheezee bar will scare them away and they may stop being interested in your band alltogether.but it depends on your songs and style.do you do covers?do you do better in a bar scene?asking bar hoppers to come to an artsy club where the chics have more brains then breast and the guys are not buff might have the same negative affect on your horndog audience.its really hard to be a band that can play both type of venues.you pretty much have to be an already succesful band and not playing in your own town.

2.you NEED a news letter.people are far too busy to take time to see when where your band is playing.you have to make them fans.music doesnt always sell itself .sometimes people have to see or hear you more than a few times for you to grow on them or for them to be hooked.you have to keep them informed on your progress recording/interviews/somebody gets beat up?whatever.make them apart of your scene.like the other guy said take pictures of them and pull them into your world.make them feel like rockstars.get some names and mention how nice they were when you talked to them after the show while you were packing up and mention who they were standing next to.especially if who they were next to was a stranger to them.put there names close together in you letter.suddenly these two people have something in common if they are at your next show.i think you get the idea here.
\
3.how long are you playing (set list)and how long are your songs.?now this is sensitive to the style of music that you play.but basically dont give the audience too much.your not rock stars yet.you need to give them a reason to come back musically.give them a sample.keep the guitar solos short (if any)and if you are not packing the place you are playing you should be playing with opening bands.the more the better.the more bands the less everybody has to play giving the audience not such a selfcentered show.some bands will be better then you or worse and this will help the indecisive audience decide or realise how good your band actually is compared to other bands.5 or six no longer than 4 and half minute songs is almost pushing it.if your band is not filling the house.other bands will bring yoiu new fresh faces.but becarefull of what kind of bands you pick to play with.and i only mean in the style music.dont give them too much variety.its very lethal.and dont get sucky bands to make you look good.it wont work.playing with good bands will make you look better.but get at least one alright band in the same music style as your self.they will get good someday and will remember you and bring their fans with them.
4.here is a touchy one...dont talk to your audience too much.its like playing a long guitar solo for them when they are trying to get some sleep.give them a taste of who you are be real but dont talk their ear off like i am to you right now.this is rock and roll not the real world.stay mysterious because when they find out you are just some dude well then they will be more willing to skip a few of your shows for latenight tv.have a sweet short conversation with thembuy them a drink and move on they will think you are the coolest guy in the world just tying your hardest to spead your love to everyone.
there is more to say but i have given away way too many secrets already and i am stopping now.forgive my spelling ,its dark.and the bus is shaking.
 
Where are you located? One of the things I know some of the local bigger acts around here do is to open for some of the bigger touring acts. I'm not talking arena big.. but touring big. Know what I mean? That way you're hitting a crowd that might not be too into the local scene because of what ever reason.

What about going on the road? Make your band an event in your own town instead of just being band that can be seen anytime. You guys sound like you're working your asses off. I'm impressed and you've given me a lot of ideas.

I've heard it said to give your audience a reason to come back. I don't know how to exactly apply that... maybe not do the best songs on your CD in every show.
 
JR#97 said:
Where are you located? One of the things I know some of the local bigger acts around here do is to open for some of the bigger touring acts. I'm not talking arena big.. but touring big. Know what I mean?
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This is something we would love to do.... a lot of people seem to think that bands suck if they are local.... I mean, if they are local and they're good, how come their not signed :rolleyes: ?

Getting gigs opening for bands in our genre would definitely be beneficial... but it seems that getting onto the bill of those gigs requires some connections that we don't seem to have (plenty of other local bands get these gigs, however, we do not.) Any suggestions on how to go about doing that?
 
I just noticed you're in Phoenix.. I don't know why I didn't just look the first time around!!! anywhoo....

My ex roomie's country band got all the major clubs in town and in some of the neighboring states. In fact, I do know they even played Phoenix. Even on the weeknights, they got payed pretty good just because they were in the top clubs even if they were just playing for the bartender, bouncers, and bar maids. The way they got so many good gigs was getting connected with the top booking guy in the area. He's a jerk I hear, but if you wanna play.... Find out who does the booking for the big clubs and see what it takes to get on his A list. You may have to do some week-night gigs and work yourself up to the weekends, but it's worth it in the end isn't it? What is your genre, anyway?

Get to know the manager or booking agent for the clubs that have the major touring acts. Up here in Salt Lake we were given the chance to open for a few partly because of a connection (lead singer used to bar tend there), and party because we played all of the open mics and were the music for the poetry slams. We never took the chance though, damnit....
 
I just skimmed this thread, so if this question has been asked already... well you know.

How often do you play out?

Some bands do well playing anywhere and everywhere they can, as often as they can. An example would be Widespread Panic when they were first getting started (If you haven't heard of them, they're huge on the hippie-college circuit here in the Southeast). They played anywhere, everywhere, and as much as possible. Their fan base just kept growing.

This isn't the case most of the time though. You can over expose even on the local circuit. A fan may not come out to the show this weekend when he/she knows that he/she can catch you anytime. I've worked the clubs both ways, and the latter was the best way for my groups to draw a larger crowd.
 
Another thought, if you've been playing for that long and your audience is not growing. Then you're band probably is not that good. As cold as it sounds, this is probably the reason. Big name bands become big name bands, because they do something different, to make the audience remember them. Also, local wise if you're band is good but you guys look like a bunch of geeks, I would suggest hiring a good looking lead singer. THIS is usually the key to getting a large local following. Yes, COLD but true. Chicks will dig the lead singer, guys will want to be him. It's a classic combination that always works. If you are a bunch of talented players, but you're sore on the eyes, only the die hards will like you, resulting in stunned local growth. Something else to consider, stop playing local! Sounds like you're local crowd has peaked because of the reasons posted. It may be time to take a look where your band will be 5 years down the road. Make changes NOW if needed. Good luck.
 
misterx said:
I would suggest hiring a good looking lead singer. THIS is usually the key to getting a large local following. Yes, COLD but true. Chicks will dig the lead singer, guys will want to be him. It's a classic combination that always works.
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This doesn not always work.

I would agree if you were to say a hot chick. Hot chicks bring in and keep crouds for your reasons you mentioned above. Guys will want to bang her, and chicks will want to be like her.

Good-looking dudes are just posers, and their novelty will wear off over time. I hear in Europe David Hasslehoff is still pretty big, though. :)
 
misterx said:
Another thought, if you've been playing for that long and your audience is not growing. Then you're band probably is not that good. As cold as it sounds, this is probably the reason. Big name bands become big name bands, because they do something different, to make the audience remember them. Also, local wise if you're band is good but you guys look like a bunch of geeks, I would suggest hiring a good looking lead singer. THIS is usually the key to getting a large local following. Yes, COLD but true. Something else to consider, stop playing local! Sounds like you're local crowd has peaked because of the reasons posted. It may be time to take a look where your band will be 5 years down the road. Make changes NOW if needed. Good luck.
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This thread is still going?


I agree to an extent on a lot of these points (like the "ugly guy" members thing). But it doesn't necessarily apply to us, I found, when a female pointed out to me that all of us are good-looking guys when I asked her why we have so many female fans when half of our music makes fun of them =)
Trust me, people who go to our shows never forget us.

The "playing out of town" thing is definitely something to look into... we've only played one gig out of town thus far.

I think we've finally made our conclusion: we need a full length cd. We have all made the observations that almost every bigger band in the area has a full length cd. Right now, we have a 3 song demo that we've been told time and time again that it doesn't do us justice. Our full length, quite frankly, is going to kick all ass, and once we have the "officialness" of having a cd, people will come back to our show wanting to hear this song, and this song, because now they know the words and know what it's about, so they can get into it more. That will also give us a good product that's worth selling out of town which people can buy, listen to, and look forward to us coming back so they can see us live and hear the songs again.

There are a few other things, too. Thx for everyone's advice on here though, I'm sure that if I had heard it before, there's someone on here who probably hasn't.
 
I'm just a studio owner, not a gigger, but here are my top three favorite points about getting people to see you out:

1. KICK ASS. Doesn't matter how much you paper the town and send out newsletters if they heard you once and don't care to hear you again.

2. GET A DAMN BANNER. I've lost count (and I can count pretty high now) of the number of bands I've seen, thought were great, asked a buddy who they were and got the shrug. It doesn't matter if you say your band name ten times. We generally can't understand what you're saying anyway. Put it up big, right in front, and every time.

3. As someone said earlier, KEEP THEM WANTING MORE. The most enjoyable local gig I've ever been to was one with 10 bands each playing for 25 minutes on two separate stages. When one stopped, the other started right in. And nobody got to play the crap filler songs... only the strongest ones made the time limit. In my mind, the bands were as good as their best 4 or 5 songs, not as good as I thought they were after hearing two great songs, 4 mediocre ones, three crappy ones, two ballads, and a 10-minute jam at the end.

Ken Rutkowski
Outer Limit Recording Studio

PS. You may or not need a full-length right now, there's no way for me to say, but I don't think you should make that decision based on lack of attendance at shows. The two don't really correlate strongly in that way.
 
I completly agree with Kendog. I belive a band should have a product to market before touring and stuff but when you are getting noone to shows then I wouldn't spend so much money to get a decent sounding cd. Do a good quality 5 track EP. PLug it hard, but keep everyone at a distance. It sounds like you know you are a good band and I reckon that that is the worst thing for a band. Be a little more modest, your catchy gimmicks might not be so catchy. And if you do catchy gimmicky stuff it is very easy to get sick of, especially at every show.if you've seen it once then you've seen it a million times.
 
don't forget other merchandise

Personally a three song demo isn't enough to sell. . . I usually shoot for a 5 song and and album as soon as possible and then an album once a year.

Also in my mind. . . being from colmbus ohio . . local means ohio indiana michigan and pensylvania. . . if you are staying in your city then that is definately what you are doing wrong. . . but here in columbus the music scene is so dead for local acts there is a huge motivation to get as far away as possible.

network with other bands that you can work with. . . and don't work with the asshole bands.

also. . . don't forget stickers and patches! stickersandmore.com can get 500 black and white 3 year stickers for less than $100. yes people will pay a $1 you be your walking billboard. If you do t-shirts go with high quality ones bacause they will last longer and do more advertising for you. Sell pictures too. . . we had on press pack picture which had all of our contact information on it and website. . . we sold it for $1 at show too.

Be the audiences best friend for the night (no not that!) . . . if you are going out to steak and shake then tell the audience and see how many follow along and then you can get to know your audience better and they have a better connecton with you and become more likely to return because you are now their friend instead of the guy on stage.
 
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