hi all - i want to build a home studio - can afford around $3K, but somewhat flexible - looking for good quality that will last and form a good basis for future expansion - the last time i recorded was about 6 years ago, and man how things have changed. it seems like the thing to do now is to go all digital/computer-based, but i'm wondering if u still need certain hardware - i'm, wondering how i'll get the "happy accidents" that u can get from a keyboard sampler and drum machine - in other words, can u "jam" with these digital samplers? would i be better off with the old 4-track approach, or is the state-of-the-art advanced enuff with the full digital approach? i would be recording mostly guitar and vocals, but i like to work with a lot of samples (both as an "e-band" and to add effects/gimmicks). any suggestions on a decent set-up (after commenting on the hardware vs software approach)? thanks everybody.
getting back into the water
- Thread starter gbvgbv
- Start date
more water
well, i pretty much am ruling out a keyboard sampler seeing the prices of Korgs starting at $2500.
i saw an exchange on the BBS where a guy ended up selling his (Roland?) 1680 cuz his software package could do everything it could do - and easier. i had been seriiously considering a Roland 808 ($1400), but i'm leaning more and more towards the total software/pc (DAW?).
even here tho, theres way too many choices - lol. i'm leaning towards guys like studio gem and drastik solutions that build up configurations specifically for music studios, rather than off-the-shelf best buy pcs. the prices are about a wash and u get a completely integrated, supported package from the custom guys. but more choices again, like on which software package - i'm looking into Cakewalk, Cubase, and Digi. one question i have at the moment is if these come with soundcards?
i'm pretty certain that these set-ups would still allow u to plug in a mic and an instrument. i think they may have samplers included. i'll be checking it out.
in the meanwhile, any advice, suggestions, rantings are welcome and encouraged.
well, i pretty much am ruling out a keyboard sampler seeing the prices of Korgs starting at $2500.
i saw an exchange on the BBS where a guy ended up selling his (Roland?) 1680 cuz his software package could do everything it could do - and easier. i had been seriiously considering a Roland 808 ($1400), but i'm leaning more and more towards the total software/pc (DAW?).
even here tho, theres way too many choices - lol. i'm leaning towards guys like studio gem and drastik solutions that build up configurations specifically for music studios, rather than off-the-shelf best buy pcs. the prices are about a wash and u get a completely integrated, supported package from the custom guys. but more choices again, like on which software package - i'm looking into Cakewalk, Cubase, and Digi. one question i have at the moment is if these come with soundcards?
i'm pretty certain that these set-ups would still allow u to plug in a mic and an instrument. i think they may have samplers included. i'll be checking it out.
in the meanwhile, any advice, suggestions, rantings are welcome and encouraged.
getting in deeper
well, looks like im learning just enuff to become dangerous.
one given is that i need a computer - either $1,100 for an off-the-shelf (hoping it has all i need) or $1,595 from studio gem (knowing its configured for musicians and includes CD-RW).
from there, the rest of the components seem to have some redundancy, or more likely, i still dont understand what each one has and duz.
here's what i thing are the required pieces (along with what i think might fit the bill):
SOUND CARD - (digi 001, or midiman delta66 or 1010)
(whats the big deal with MOTU - seems expensive and limited to only sound card functions?)
RECORDER - (digi001, or cakewalk pro 9 deluxe) (is the 1010 a recorder too?)
MIXER - (cakewalk pro 9 deluxe) (is digi001 a mixer too?)
SAMPLER - (cakewalk pro 9 deluxe) (digi001 and 1010, also?)
SEQUENCER - (cakewalk pro 9 deluxe)
is that basically everything?
is cubase better than cakewalk?
is anybody out there?
my next levels of investigation will take me into looking into aardvark, hoontech, REASON, and some real cheap software like PG power tools proaudio, and n-track.
help????????
SAMPLER - (cakewalk pro 9 deluxe)
well, looks like im learning just enuff to become dangerous.
one given is that i need a computer - either $1,100 for an off-the-shelf (hoping it has all i need) or $1,595 from studio gem (knowing its configured for musicians and includes CD-RW).
from there, the rest of the components seem to have some redundancy, or more likely, i still dont understand what each one has and duz.
here's what i thing are the required pieces (along with what i think might fit the bill):
SOUND CARD - (digi 001, or midiman delta66 or 1010)
(whats the big deal with MOTU - seems expensive and limited to only sound card functions?)
RECORDER - (digi001, or cakewalk pro 9 deluxe) (is the 1010 a recorder too?)
MIXER - (cakewalk pro 9 deluxe) (is digi001 a mixer too?)
SAMPLER - (cakewalk pro 9 deluxe) (digi001 and 1010, also?)
SEQUENCER - (cakewalk pro 9 deluxe)
is that basically everything?
is cubase better than cakewalk?
is anybody out there?
my next levels of investigation will take me into looking into aardvark, hoontech, REASON, and some real cheap software like PG power tools proaudio, and n-track.
help????????
SAMPLER - (cakewalk pro 9 deluxe)
skippy
New member
Well, you're asking a lot of questions- many of which have answers that lie in the realm of personal religion more than absolute truth. You might find that you'll get more answers when asking fewer questions, and on more concrete topics, and under a subject title that indicates what the query is about. A lot of people will be a little tentative when they don't know quite what you're trying to do. I'm kind of a new guy around here, but that may help you get responses- just a friendly pointer...
I'm out on the fringe for this site, because I don't do computer recording. My input on this thread is to suggest that you examine what you really want out of your recording setup right up front. Do you want to track and mix songs right away with as little overhead as possible, or do you want to learn a new skill and play with neat (and often time-consuming) new toys?
In my case, I had years of analog multitrack studio experience, so I decided to skip the computer recording thing, and go with a standalone HDR (essentially a tapeless tape machine) to build my new studio around. Like you, I'd been out of it for a number of years. When I asked myself the question above, the answer was "new toys hurt more than they help": I already know how to record, and had a definite working style based on my old experience that I wanted to preserve as much as possible. I've succeeded in that, but your mileage may vary.
Now, what do you want? Sounds like you want to preserve the ability to create by "happy accident". That's a good thing- I'm all with you on that! This leads me to think that you are like me: you're used to putting up a reel of tape, starting up a sequencer or two, letting it fly, and seeing what happens. Computer recording may or may not help you do that, if the process of learning how all that junk works and debugging all the interactions saps your creativity too badly.
My advice is that if you have a working style that you like, *stay with it*. This may lead you to consider one of the standalone digital portastudios, instead of trying to build up a pc-based swiss-army-knife do-everything DAW that you may or may not end up liking.
Having said all that: I'm also considering a DAW, which I'll use for some editing, and to learn some new tricks. I have the luxury of doing that now, because the basic recording functionality I need is up, running, simple to use, and doesn't piss me off to the point that I have to leave the room. It was important _to me_ to get the ability to track and write songs set up *first*. Now that that is done, I can justify taking a little time to screw around with this newfangled stuff. And if I do, I'll buy a turnkey package- probably from Soundchaser. I don't have time or patience to screw with that stuff very much: I want my energy to go into songwriting, not into swapping boards in a dead PC.
On the digi001/cakewalk/whatever decisions: start from first principles. Decide what you _need_ to accomplish your artistic goals, and then go to the manufacturer's websites and see what their products offer. A lot of people won't even comment on a "which is better" question, because the answer is invariably "It depends."
Also, you should do a search on each one of those items you mention in your questions. There have been long articles on building DAWs with the hardware and software you mention posted here as recently as last week. If you can't get what you need from those older threads, try posting specific questions one or two at a time under a descriptive subject title. To really get use out of this site (or any other), you'll find that the more focused your question, the more useful the answer.
Hope that helps.
[Edited by skippy on 12-29-2000 at 15:43]
I'm out on the fringe for this site, because I don't do computer recording. My input on this thread is to suggest that you examine what you really want out of your recording setup right up front. Do you want to track and mix songs right away with as little overhead as possible, or do you want to learn a new skill and play with neat (and often time-consuming) new toys?
In my case, I had years of analog multitrack studio experience, so I decided to skip the computer recording thing, and go with a standalone HDR (essentially a tapeless tape machine) to build my new studio around. Like you, I'd been out of it for a number of years. When I asked myself the question above, the answer was "new toys hurt more than they help": I already know how to record, and had a definite working style based on my old experience that I wanted to preserve as much as possible. I've succeeded in that, but your mileage may vary.
Now, what do you want? Sounds like you want to preserve the ability to create by "happy accident". That's a good thing- I'm all with you on that! This leads me to think that you are like me: you're used to putting up a reel of tape, starting up a sequencer or two, letting it fly, and seeing what happens. Computer recording may or may not help you do that, if the process of learning how all that junk works and debugging all the interactions saps your creativity too badly.
My advice is that if you have a working style that you like, *stay with it*. This may lead you to consider one of the standalone digital portastudios, instead of trying to build up a pc-based swiss-army-knife do-everything DAW that you may or may not end up liking.
Having said all that: I'm also considering a DAW, which I'll use for some editing, and to learn some new tricks. I have the luxury of doing that now, because the basic recording functionality I need is up, running, simple to use, and doesn't piss me off to the point that I have to leave the room. It was important _to me_ to get the ability to track and write songs set up *first*. Now that that is done, I can justify taking a little time to screw around with this newfangled stuff. And if I do, I'll buy a turnkey package- probably from Soundchaser. I don't have time or patience to screw with that stuff very much: I want my energy to go into songwriting, not into swapping boards in a dead PC.
On the digi001/cakewalk/whatever decisions: start from first principles. Decide what you _need_ to accomplish your artistic goals, and then go to the manufacturer's websites and see what their products offer. A lot of people won't even comment on a "which is better" question, because the answer is invariably "It depends."
Also, you should do a search on each one of those items you mention in your questions. There have been long articles on building DAWs with the hardware and software you mention posted here as recently as last week. If you can't get what you need from those older threads, try posting specific questions one or two at a time under a descriptive subject title. To really get use out of this site (or any other), you'll find that the more focused your question, the more useful the answer.
Hope that helps.
[Edited by skippy on 12-29-2000 at 15:43]
Yea...what skippy said.
I've been reading the posts on this board for some time. The search tool is a great place to start. A lot of the questions you're asking can be found in other posts.
I decided to go the PC route. It took some time before I found a setup that really worked so be prepared to spend some time getting things set up. I also went through more than one piece of gear that got sent back. I ended up with the MOTU 2408mkII for getting audio into the computer and it works great for me. I feed that with a Mackie 1402vlz primarily for the mic preamps and general flexability. I'm using Cakewalk PA9 which I love (Just ordered an upgrade to get the FX bundles).
I've had the chance to work on a project with a friend who does everything with the Roland 880 (still requires a seperate CD burner) and that performed well, and his total investment was way less than I've spent. But we're going after two different things. He needs to be portable, I don't, and I like the GUI edit of a computer, and in the end I believe I have more options for expansion.
Good luck whichever way you go....and keep reading
I've been reading the posts on this board for some time. The search tool is a great place to start. A lot of the questions you're asking can be found in other posts.
I decided to go the PC route. It took some time before I found a setup that really worked so be prepared to spend some time getting things set up. I also went through more than one piece of gear that got sent back. I ended up with the MOTU 2408mkII for getting audio into the computer and it works great for me. I feed that with a Mackie 1402vlz primarily for the mic preamps and general flexability. I'm using Cakewalk PA9 which I love (Just ordered an upgrade to get the FX bundles).
I've had the chance to work on a project with a friend who does everything with the Roland 880 (still requires a seperate CD burner) and that performed well, and his total investment was way less than I've spent. But we're going after two different things. He needs to be portable, I don't, and I like the GUI edit of a computer, and in the end I believe I have more options for expansion.
Good luck whichever way you go....and keep reading
thanx for the replies
thanx for the replies guys - i especially lked the comment on personal religion vs absolute truth - how true. sorry to be so scatter-shot, but theres too many questions and all inter-related - thats why i posted on the newbies board.
but yer advice is well taken. i'm zeroing in on specifics on all fronts - the most basic question is as you suggest - what do i want to do? well, primarily i want to make my own recordings, but as i edge closer and closer to pro level equipment i start to entertain the idea of producing other ppls stuff for them (i know - losing focus....).
anyway, it duz seem that very quickly after u leave the realm of quick and dirty (like tascam porta2) you get to where for just "a few bucks more" u are at DAW - i know the biggest obstacle then is learning curve and like u guys say, i'd rather be making music (producer ambitions aside).
so, i just wanted to say thanx for now - i kinda thought these posts (ramblimg and scatter-shot as they may be) might prove helpful to others just starting to wade into this stuff - show the whole convoluted thought process that u can go thru (and to think this all started only cuz i was looking for an effects pedal for my guitar - lol - which by the way, i;m very happy with my new digi RP-200).
my basic questions of today are:
standalone HD recorder vs full pc (leaning towards pc)
software synth and sequencer vs "real" ones (leaning towards software)
expensive software (cubase, etc) vs cheep (n-track, etc) (leaning towards cheep)
am i doomed? - lol - thanx again - hope im not getting redundant - and i hope this thread is helpful to other newbies just beginning to explore all of this - its immense.
thanx for the replies guys - i especially lked the comment on personal religion vs absolute truth - how true. sorry to be so scatter-shot, but theres too many questions and all inter-related - thats why i posted on the newbies board.
but yer advice is well taken. i'm zeroing in on specifics on all fronts - the most basic question is as you suggest - what do i want to do? well, primarily i want to make my own recordings, but as i edge closer and closer to pro level equipment i start to entertain the idea of producing other ppls stuff for them (i know - losing focus....).
anyway, it duz seem that very quickly after u leave the realm of quick and dirty (like tascam porta2) you get to where for just "a few bucks more" u are at DAW - i know the biggest obstacle then is learning curve and like u guys say, i'd rather be making music (producer ambitions aside).
so, i just wanted to say thanx for now - i kinda thought these posts (ramblimg and scatter-shot as they may be) might prove helpful to others just starting to wade into this stuff - show the whole convoluted thought process that u can go thru (and to think this all started only cuz i was looking for an effects pedal for my guitar - lol - which by the way, i;m very happy with my new digi RP-200).
my basic questions of today are:
standalone HD recorder vs full pc (leaning towards pc)
software synth and sequencer vs "real" ones (leaning towards software)
expensive software (cubase, etc) vs cheep (n-track, etc) (leaning towards cheep)
am i doomed? - lol - thanx again - hope im not getting redundant - and i hope this thread is helpful to other newbies just beginning to explore all of this - its immense.
DavidK
New member
Yup, what skippy said.
If you are going to go Cakewalk, the Deluxe version
is a waste of money. I have it, it is the
biggest waste of money of all time, just get
pro audio 9. The deluxe version has stupid videos
from the 40's of guys sticking billiard balls in their
mouth, etc. I kid you not, it is a ripoff.
As I said in another post, If you buy Cakewalk
Home studio, register, then upgrade to Pro Audio 9,
you will save about $100 good old dollars,enough
to buy a Shure Mic, or take the wife out to
a good meal.
Cubase and Cakewalk could be debated for hours,
but If you want to be wise, Dont buy the
Cakewalk Deluxe, it is the dumbest shit I have
ever seen.
A final thought: the computer stuff can get
complicated, so if you plan to go that way,
get some cheapo program and learn the ropes.
Dont start with Digi001 and Pro Tools Le,
you will be lost. Cakewalk is probably the
easiest to learn of the prosumer software, but
that doesnt mean it is easy to learn, they all
have a steep learning curve for newbies, so
you might want to download some demos
http://www.cakewalk.com and check out how it works.
Good luck with it all, and if you buy cakewalk
pro audio 9 the way I said, without the
goofy deluxe, I have saved you lots of
dollars, so Email me and I will give you an
adress to send me a check for my consulting
fee. Cheers and happy new year, David
If you are going to go Cakewalk, the Deluxe version
is a waste of money. I have it, it is the
biggest waste of money of all time, just get
pro audio 9. The deluxe version has stupid videos
from the 40's of guys sticking billiard balls in their
mouth, etc. I kid you not, it is a ripoff.
As I said in another post, If you buy Cakewalk
Home studio, register, then upgrade to Pro Audio 9,
you will save about $100 good old dollars,enough
to buy a Shure Mic, or take the wife out to
a good meal.
Cubase and Cakewalk could be debated for hours,
but If you want to be wise, Dont buy the
Cakewalk Deluxe, it is the dumbest shit I have
ever seen.
A final thought: the computer stuff can get
complicated, so if you plan to go that way,
get some cheapo program and learn the ropes.
Dont start with Digi001 and Pro Tools Le,
you will be lost. Cakewalk is probably the
easiest to learn of the prosumer software, but
that doesnt mean it is easy to learn, they all
have a steep learning curve for newbies, so
you might want to download some demos
http://www.cakewalk.com and check out how it works.
Good luck with it all, and if you buy cakewalk
pro audio 9 the way I said, without the
goofy deluxe, I have saved you lots of
dollars, so Email me and I will give you an
adress to send me a check for my consulting
fee. Cheers and happy new year, David
thanks for the tip
i'll keep that in mind david - thanks.
actually im looking at trying n-track first - only $60.
i still think the digi001 would be good for its card and box - i think i need the mic pre-amps. this seems to rule out the delta cards (can that be rite?). another candidate is the aardvark 24/96 - it has mic preamps too.
i'm looking to see if u can get the digi001 without ProTools or if that just messes it up.
i'll keep that in mind david - thanks.
actually im looking at trying n-track first - only $60.
i still think the digi001 would be good for its card and box - i think i need the mic pre-amps. this seems to rule out the delta cards (can that be rite?). another candidate is the aardvark 24/96 - it has mic preamps too.
i'm looking to see if u can get the digi001 without ProTools or if that just messes it up.