Getting an specific drum tone...

  • Thread starter Thread starter JuliánFernández
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JuliánFernández

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Hi guys! Me again... this time i wanna ask about how to get an specific tone for my drums...
I play a lot of jazz and fussion, and i´m still looking to find the tone for that particular style...
I´m talking about Weckl, Sanchez, Novak... that kind of guys.
Vinnie Colaiuta´s tone (when he was using the Yamaha Recording Customs) is an obvious reference. Sting´s Ten Summoner Tales has some incredible drum tones (and playing!;))
Can anyone give some advice on the equipment to achieve that particular sound?
Thanks!!!
 
Weckl, Sanchez, Novak, and Vinnie Colaiuta. That is what you need.

Seriously.
 
I´m a drummer man! ;)
I´m talking about getting that kind of sound for MY drums! hahha
Any help?
 
It's all in the ingredients?

hi Julian, it's a bit hard to explain so I'll try to draw an analogy. Let's say you consider yourself to be a pretty darn good cook. You make a mean tuna casserole.

Then one day on vacation on the other side of the world, you go to a fancy restaurant and have the most incredible meal. You insist on speaking to the chef, who's too busy, but your waiter is happy to tell you what is in each dish. So he tells you in broken english, because it's not his first langauge. But you get the 'gist' of it, or at least the basic ingredients...

You can't wait to recreate this awesome meal when you get home. :rolleyes:

Now, let's say the meal calls for Kobe beef (Vinnie C.) but all they have at Giant is farm raised Montana... The chef marinates his beef in spices unavailable to you (Eventide, Neve)... oh, and you are not a world-renowned chef who's been cooking since age 7 (Hugh Padgham).

Get my point?

Vinnie Coliauta is a virtuoso. Sting is a genius, and Sting was probably leaning over the shoulder of his world-renowned sound engineers and producers while pro drum techs came into a professionally designed room to tune Vinnie's drums and set up about thirty thousand dollars worth of mikes.
After the perfect take, a team of experts huddle in a control room that rivals the Space Shuttle, and spend a few weeks getting the perfect blend of compression, reverb, stereo balance, etc. etc...

:rolleyes: So, now that I got that out of my system...

My point is even if you have the right "equipment" you probably won't get that "sound". I bet if Vinnie C. himself tried to recreate what he did for Sting over ten years ago, he probably could MAYBE come close.

Now, do you know how to tune drums? Most drummers I know can't. If not, I say start there. Most drummers don't even know how to properly hit a drum... not saying you can't... just pointing out a fact. I'm a drummer so I can say that.

But in the interest of helping a fellow drummer, I would suggest looking into the specs of Vinnie's kit back then. I know he liked to play Yamaha but he might've used an old Gretsch kit for those sessions. Find out what heads he was using. What woods. What size and depth. Then try to recreate the pitch. Google, baby, google. Oh, and http://www.drummerworld.com

:o
 
Thanks RezN8 for your reply! ;)
I do know how to tune my drums... i´m playing drums for quite a bit, and i REALLY understand what you´re talking about...
Anyway, when i talk about Vinnie´s or Weckl sound, i don´t want to have the SAME sound, ´cause our personality as musicians came (in part) of the sound of our instruments. But it´s always nice to know that certain equipment helps to get closer to a type of sound. Know what i mean?
The final goal is to have a great sounding kit, with my own print on it sound...
 
JuliánFernández said:
Thanks RezN8 for your reply! ;)
I do know how to tune my drums... i´m playing drums for quite a bit, and i REALLY understand what you´re talking about...
Anyway, when i talk about Vinnie´s or Weckl sound, i don´t want to have the SAME sound, ´cause our personality as musicians came (in part) of the sound of our instruments. But it´s always nice to know that certain equipment helps to get closer to a type of sound. Know what i mean?
The final goal is to have a great sounding kit, with my own print on it sound...
Click to expand...

I hear you Julian. I can tell you from my ever-ending quest for that killer drum sound, more often than not it's the ACOUSTICS OF THE ROOM that makes or breaks it. I had to shout that for all the others that might be reading this... Cheers, Rez
 
Dude, why don't you just post this question in the "DRUM" forum!!
 
Because, i wanna know rack-wise how to get that type of sound...
If i wanna talk about which heads should i use, i would go to drum forum! ;)
If i wanna talk about room acoustic, i would go to John Sayers forum! :cool:
 
JuliánFernández said:
Because, i wanna know rack-wise how to get that type of sound...
If i wanna talk about which heads should i use, i would go to drum forum! ;)
If i wanna talk about room acoustic, i would go to John Sayers forum! :cool:
Click to expand...

Yes, but the playing technique, drums, heads, sticks, room acoustics, etc. are all considerably more important than any specific rack gear you can get. Sure, good mics, preamps, compressors, and EQs will make your life easier, but they only shape the sound that is already there. Early jazz recordings were very minimally processed, save for the natural compression of the recording medium. Perhaps you could describe your setup and what you aren't liking about your sound?
 
You´re right Scrubs, but i feel it´s pointless to talk about feel, tempo, pocket, groove etc. on ANY forum. I can talk about that with my peers or teachers... know what i mean?
My search on internet has to do with all the aspects of how to record with loyalty your personality as a drummer on tape...
I play moslty on a custom made kit, and it´s hard (on different situations) to get a sound that satisfies me...
I think i was looking for advice of people who recorded stuff like that (not those guys in particular) and found some gear that work the best...
 
for drummers, it's much like it is with guitarists.......tone is in the fingers--or in the hands, in this case. you could go play on vinnie or dave's kits, in the same room, with the same mics and preamps and you would sound NOTHING like them.

that's what these folks are trying to say.....that no matter what gear you use, you will never sound like anyone other than you. it's in your best interest to get comfortable with who you are, your particular style and what you sound like.

now, for the "typical" fusion set or sound.....i would start with a lively wood (birch, maybe) and smaller drums, tuned fairly high/tight. and i'd close mic everything. 4 or 5 piece set. clear thin heads, too--no ambassadors or pinstripes. very "live" sounding drums are the goal here, typically.

for a "typical" jazz sound (think miles or coltrane), i'd think larger drums, coated heads, mic'd from a distance (maybe a close mic on the kick). 4 or 5 piece kit, although some of those guys who played with big bands (krupa, bellson) played double kick kits. darker/distant drums are the goal here, typically.


does that help at all?


cheers,
wade
 
Your overhead mics are critical in constructing the drum sound.

And tuning the drums to the key of the piece helps.
 
mrface2112 said:
now, for the "typical" fusion set or sound.....i would start with a lively wood (birch, maybe) and smaller drums, tuned fairly high/tight. and i'd close mic everything. 4 or 5 piece set. clear thin heads, too--no ambassadors or pinstripes. very "live" sounding drums are the goal here, typically.
Click to expand...

That´s the kind of advice i was looking for! ;) Thanks...
Anyone else?
 
JuliánFernández said:
That´s the kind of advice i was looking for! ;) Thanks...
Anyone else?
Click to expand...

glad i could be of some help here. generally speaking, listen to a number of cds that you consider to be "in the genre", and do a little research into what kind of drum configurations they were using on those recordings.

i bet that you'll find some "generalities" across the genre......just like with the "hair metal" sound, or the "70's california" sound, etc.....you'll find some generalizations that help define that genre's drum sound.

unfortunately, if you're looking at a lot of today's "smooth jazz", not only are you talking great drummers with great technique, you're also talking drum parts that have been triggered or "supplemented" with samples--either alongside the regular drum track or completely replacing it. of course, you get that in country, pop and metal anymore, too. :rolleyes:


cheers,
wade
 
Thanks man! I did a lot of research on the kind of drumkits and configurations used on that kind of stuff. The weird thing is that most of the drummer´s i mentioned have some kind of endorsment by major mic companies (Shure for Weckl, Rode for Vinnie, etc.), but it´s clear that the producer will have the final word about using which mic on the kit... So, i think it´s pointless to take advice from an interview of Vinnie, where he says "I love my NTK for OH" (actually a real one)
Anyone recorded that kind of stuff succesfully and find a piece of gear especially useful?
 
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