Horkin My Lunch
New member
I don't buy that, but that's all a matter of preference. It's not what you have, it's how you record it.
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chewbacaface
New member
You can get pretty much the same thing if you use a stereo sample delay in your insert. Most software will have this build in. If you offset the left track from the right track slightly 128ms - 256ms it will add some girth to the track. Most guitar players are good enough to play the same thing twice and get pretty close. However, this works if you only took one track and you can't get them back in to record again. Or, it works well on acoustic guitar since difference are easier to pick out in acoustic double tracks.
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chewbacaface
New member
I don't think the guitar sounds too bad. The solo is a bit thin sounding. More than anything the drums are too loud in the mix.
All in all, I like it (especially the name).
Horkin My Lunch
New member
On the subject of good amps vs. bad amps, some of my favorite tones were made with less than stellar equipment. For example, Entombed. They used a Peavey Bandit with a Boss HM-2 with everything dimed.
I usually like to keep them a little above the mix to keep the energy up. If I even it out, everything tends to mask the kick and the snare, even when they are EQ'd to my liking. I usually need the kick and the snare to hit me. Either way, thank you.
Sonixx
New member
I don't think I agree with this at all. Certain amps have very specific tonal characteristics that just can't be had with another amp.
GONZO-X
Well-known member
big tones.......
always start with the player, and how the player plays.
then, it's the guitar/amp combo.
how many of your favorite bands (that have HUGE guitar sounds) use a peavey bandit?
i think some of the answers to your questions, may be just underneath your nose.....
start: with a massive sounding rig, that's dialed in.
add: a good sounding room.
add: a good engineer, that knows how to place mics properly.
add: a good mic, good preamp, good convertor.
huge tone!
always start with the player, and how the player plays.
then, it's the guitar/amp combo.
how many of your favorite bands (that have HUGE guitar sounds) use a peavey bandit?
i think some of the answers to your questions, may be just underneath your nose.....
start: with a massive sounding rig, that's dialed in.
add: a good sounding room.
add: a good engineer, that knows how to place mics properly.
add: a good mic, good preamp, good convertor.
huge tone!
Vinnydude
Clunge Monster
+1 for that gonzo!!!
Horkin My Lunch
New member
Pixies. Sonic Youth and My Bloody Valentine used cheap amps on their best recordings.
The tones are great in the room. The part about having TOP OF THE LINE stuff is all well and good, but I don't think it's essential, seeing as I can get the tone I want in the room. I'm reamping tomorrow with using a Peavey instead of that Fender.
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MCI2424
New member
Yes, very true. This concept is usually lost.
Another point is that some of the "huge" sound of some metal bands is tuning down to D. This gives instant "huge" to any recording.
Erockrazor
I mix in (2x) real-time
Horkin,
I'm not saying you can't get good tones out of less expensive amps. You just have to recognize that the Converge type tone is unfortunately a bit specific to gear, or else they'd record it with a less expensive amp too.
I challenge anyone to get a great modern rock tone out of VOX AC30 or a Fender Twin Reverb. Certain amps do certain things well and I can downright say, the pixies, sonic youth, and my bloody valentine are not the same tone or even remotely similar to Converge's guitar tone.
I'm not saying you shouldn't do the best you can do with your gear. I am totally for that effort. But unfortunately, I dont agree with "its not what you have but how you record it". To some degree it is what you have more or less. But hear me out, I'm in the league of thinking that you have to be creative and make use of what you have. Good luck!
Erockrazor
I mix in (2x) real-time
I just listened to your recording. It's definitely a nice start, I don't think you necessarily would even want a tone as deadly as Converge..
Do you have some sort of reverb or delay on the guitar signal? Seems like it gets a little blurry. Good stuff though!
Do you have some sort of reverb or delay on the guitar signal? Seems like it gets a little blurry. Good stuff though!
Horkin My Lunch
New member
No delay, L and R channels are the rhythm guitars, center is lead.
S
soundchaser59
Reluctant Commander
You can with the other end!
I don't think the amps are the problem, because they sound great in the room.
Again, I was looking for a grimey but powerful sound. It is a punk band after all.
Then put the mics where your ears are.
Otherwise, put your ears where the mics are and find out what the mics hear. It will be very different than what your ears hear "in the room." Problem may not be the amps, but you may not be hearing everything coming out of the amps either, because your ears are not 1 inch from the speaker.
Get the best of both worlds..... multiple mics used for multiple takes.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Honestly, this is the only time I've ever seen this advocated. I'll admit that maybe 100% seems too wide, but that's generally my starting point and I can't think of a single occasion where I've had "heavy" guitars less than 60% L/R. I'd recommend the reverse; start at 100%, listen, and if it sounds unnatural (which, if you have a tight player, it very well may sound perfectly fine there), only then tighten.
I don't quad track often (I do instrumental guitar stuff, so I need to be careful about how much space I'm leaving, tonally, for other guitar sounds), but when I do I generally have one par 100% and another a bit tighter - 60%-80%. This is pretty common, as I understand.
Huuuuuge +1. For the longest time I wasn't happy with my close-mic'd sound; it sounded great in the room, but always thin, fizzy, and too "sharp" when I recorded. The breakthrough for me came when (at low volumes, for obvious reasons) I started listening to my sound from right in front of the speaker. It WAS too thin, fizzy, and sharp. Cutting the gain back a bit, boosting the low end a little, easing up on the treble and compensating with a little more midrange, and suddenly I had something that sounded dark and wooly in the room, but was kicking ass through the mic.
Also, FWIW, you might have better luck with a couple takes with a single mic. I didn't listen to your clip - at work - but it's possible part of what you're dealing with is phasing issues between the multiple amps/mics you're employing. I'm kind of of the school of thought where if you can't get something at least serviceable out of a single SM57 and a couple tracks, then you're doing something wrong. I kind of like ribbons on guitars too, especially for lead, but if you're after a punk sound that wouldn't be where I would start.
M
Muffin
New member
I've been having some similar problems with the OP and I'd like to try this technique out.
How should the mic be angled(straight on?) and a good general distance from the grill(an inch from the grill?)
FYI- I use a Line 6 HD100 Bogner full tube head. Fender DT412 cab with Vintage 30's.
Mic options- I don't have much but I have an AT 3035 and Shure SM58
M
MikeDesert
New member
Sunn heads are one of my favorites (I use old Acoustic heads though along with a tube head). I like Kustoms too. Regardless, my newer $60 vox combo I used for overdubbing sounds way heavier than my main amps.
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MikeDesert
New member
Just listened to your track. You did a nice job capturing a classic punk sound, Some boomy toms aside, it sounds every bit as good as some of my favorite Nardcore LPs of yesterear. I don't think the guitars need to sound more "Melvinsy" or anything.
You could have them do more tracking with some heavier guitar settings. Then prolly just use a parametric EQ with the drums and guitars so they don't get too muddy.
Just my 2 cents.
You could have them do more tracking with some heavier guitar settings. Then prolly just use a parametric EQ with the drums and guitars so they don't get too muddy.
Just my 2 cents.
matttheaxe
New member
Aaahh. It's all coming together. I have never tried it, but I would like to try cranking up the amp to a moderate level, then placing a studio mic back about 3-5 feet. Right where your ears hear the "great tone".
Our guitarist recorded his tracks when I was not there. The sound was boxy and muffled. Found out he used a 100 watt Marshall tube amp with the master on 8 and an SM57 up close. He agreed the tone was crap.
When miking live, you simply must get the mic up close to avoid bleed from other sources, but in the studio, you have room to play around.
The only problem would be the room acoustics if my idea is attempted.
Yeah, it sounds like crap at 1", but I even heard some nasty sibilance with my ears out 8-10" directly in front of the amp with my favorite tone ever.
(Les Paul Ultra II with a Line 6 Spider Jam-metal amp-gain down low)
Our guitarist recorded his tracks when I was not there. The sound was boxy and muffled. Found out he used a 100 watt Marshall tube amp with the master on 8 and an SM57 up close. He agreed the tone was crap.
When miking live, you simply must get the mic up close to avoid bleed from other sources, but in the studio, you have room to play around.
The only problem would be the room acoustics if my idea is attempted.
Yeah, it sounds like crap at 1", but I even heard some nasty sibilance with my ears out 8-10" directly in front of the amp with my favorite tone ever.
(Les Paul Ultra II with a Line 6 Spider Jam-metal amp-gain down low)
bozmillar
New member
I agree with this one 100% as long as getting the instrument to sound right before tracking is part of recording. listening to your track, the guitars sound very midrangy and over distorted. I find that when I record guitars, I have to dial the distortion to where I like it, then turn it down some. Overly distorted guitars just end up sounding like mush in a recording.
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MikeDesert
New member
A lot of classic early SST records stuff had very midrangy distorted sounding guitars. I love all that stuff though. I really hate "well produced" punk records. Personal preference I guess.