Genisis 3--Now We Are Getting Someplace

[crawdad]

OK--confession: I'm a guitar modeler junkie. I bought a Boss GT3, then a Pod, J-Station, V-Amp and now this thing--the Genisis 3. Out of all of them, the Genesis is by far the best product that I have tried. No its not always as good as a real amp, but its the first unit that does a really credible Super Reverb and the crunch and high gain sounds are clearly superior to the others in my mind. Oh--and a usable Vox sound.

Let me add that I will sit and tweak for hours trying to find something that pleases me. On the other units, whenever I got the right high end bite, I heard this crapping out in the high frequencies. Not to mention some very unmusical low end on some of the distortion patches. This unit stays clean and focused. Present without being shrill. I also like the effects better than all the other units except the GT3.

I would actually consider using this one on some studio tracks without worry. I post this just in case somebody out there is looking for a modeler. Do yourself a favor and check this out before you buy something else.

 

[charger]

I wanna hear that Super Reverb! Please post a sample.

 

[Speeddemon]

Dudes, didn't you check my threads about the Genesis 3 like months ago?
I also posted a link to my samples on nowhereradio.com

It's also funny to mention that 95% of the POD 2.0 owners never tried the Genesis 3. And that 99% of the Genesis 3 owners HAVE tried the POD and didn't like it.

I tried the POD, J-Station, V-Amp 2 and Genesis 3. Got the Genesis 3. (I used to own the Boss GT-3 which does sound crappy from time to time. I DID manage to get some good patches out of it, after 5 years... )
Anyway, I recently recorded my practice amp (Roland 405) with my SP B3 mic. And then I recorded the same part through my Genesis 3 with the Tubescreamer patch (from the site downloadable).... I almost couldn't tell which was which.

The site has 1 awesome patch (amongst others, but this one REALLY stands out), it's called something like Sweet Tube Distortion. Sounds like SRV, but different...

Maybe the new PODxt can *touch* the Genesis 3, but now that the Genesis 3 is usually sold for $200, it's a no-brainer.

Great amp sims,
warp function
great effects
dedicated knob for cabinet sim
more effects simultaneously useable
decent display
digital output

Period.

 

[crawdad]

Speed--I DID check your thread recently and listened to the samples you put up. That was what inspired me to pick this box up! So my post is merely reiterating your enthusiasm, I suppose. I LOVE this thing. You know what is really cool is that the touch sensitivity of the patches replicates the feel and sound of a tube amp so much. For that alone, its worth it to me. Pile on all the other goodies ( recorded out the SPDIF today--cool also)--and its a real winner.

I only have one gripe--I have to send for the Editor disk. I downloaded the program, but it needs OMS to run on my Mac. Downloaded OMS, but it wouldn't se my Miditimepiece midi interface, so I don't have access to the cool online patches yet. I still have to figure this wrinkle out. Even so, its a breeze to edit on the fly.

Yeah! I'd never go back to the Pod! LOL! My stance has been anti-modeler, even though I have bought some of them. The Genesis 3 changed my mind significantly. If I ever get the editor thing going, I'll post some patches. Thanks again for the heads up on this piece--just keeping the buzz going!

 

[charger]

I listened to all your samples when you posted them. I didn't think any of them were anything I hadn't heard from the other modelers out there. I also tried a couple of different Digitech Gen- things at my guitar shop, having been an old Digitech user (GSP128, then Twintube, then 2101, then 2120) and I was unimpressed. However, I must have been on crack, because i totally missed any Super Reverb patch, or else I tried the wrong Gen product (there are so many of them!)

It's also funny to mention that 95% of the POD 2.0 owners never tried the Genesis 3. And that 99% of the Genesis 3 owners HAVE tried the POD and didn't like it.

Funny? more like irrelevant, and not very scientific of you. When people spout meaningless propaganda crap like this, it totally turns me off to whatever it is they're pushing. If it's a great product, no need for inferiroity complexes...

 

[crawdad]

Just for the record, there is no Super Reverb stock patch. However, by tweaking the Blackface model and marrying it to an American 4 10" cab, adding the right verb, etc, I found something pretty damn close. YMMV (sorry Chessrock).

As for my opinions, they aren't propaganda--just my opinions. (I know this wasn't directed at my posts, per se) I've played 'em all and I found something in the Gen that I couldn't in the others. Doesn't mean its my way or the highway, just that I think its better. Whatever makes ya happy, use it.

 

[charger]

Aaah. That explains why I never found the Super Reverb amp model. I've been begging Line6 to model one for about 4 years... And since the American 4x10 cab is probably based on the Bassman, it's definitely gonna be a different sound. That blackface Super Reverb 4x10 cab is a pretty unique sounding box...

<rant>
The annoying thing I've found about the amp modelers is that everyone models the same amps. One company has a hit with their models, then everyone else uses the same models! It's so annoying. Just once I'd like to see an amp modeler with a bunch of different models. I mean, we all know as soon as Line6 models the Super Reverb, everyone else will, but why does everyone else have to wait? Why doesn't some company just strike out and do it on their own? I would buy whatever amp modeler made a convincing, great-sounding Super Reverb model, regardless of the brand.
</rant>

 

[Speeddemon]

Funny? more like irrelevant, and not very scientific of you. When people spout meaningless propaganda crap like this, it totally turns me off to whatever it is they're pushing. If it's a great product, no need for inferiroity complexes...

I don't think so. If you check all HC's user reviews of the POD and GEnesis 3, you'll find that almost all Genesis 3 users don't like the POD, and that most POD users never tried the Genesis 3 (if they HAD, they wouldn't be using the inferior POD!)

I agree that too many manufacturers are using the same line of amp sims, but it's also with a reason:those are the most popular amps.

I don't care much for Matchless or Orange, I DO want a decent Soldano and some modded JCM800...

 

[crawdad]

I hear ya. Its all marketing. And what exactly does boutique mean anyway? There are hundreds of boutique amps, so which one is the model supposed to be?!

One of the cool features of the Genesis is that it offers paramers to adjust the resonant frequencies of the cabinet simulations. So, if its a little too dark or too tubby, you can make fine adjustments.

Another thing that I like about the Gen is the warp feature. I was doing a track yesterday with a Marshall high gain setting, but I needed some clarity along with the sustain. So, I added some Fender on top and the two sounds together gave me just what I needed.

Anyway, my wish is for a perfect model of a Dumble. Maybe someday, eh?

 

[charger]

most POD users never tried the Genesis 3 (if they HAD, they wouldn't be using the inferior POD!)

Is that scientific to provide your proof based on what people say on Harmony Central?

Hey, I've tried them all. I was a loyal Digitech user for years and years, and even though I already had the POD (original), the Gen series did not sway me. And believe me, I ran it through its paces. I'm currently totally stoked on the PODxt; it's the one modeler I've tried that is actually as revolutionary now as the POD was back in 1998...

Now I would LOVE to hear some of these awesome tones you all are getting; we can talk all day about how they're the greatest thing ever, but the proof is in the tones...

Some of my xt samples are up at http://www.astrondelta.com/charger/podxt
The samples get better as you go down the page, since they're in chronological order...

 

[Speeddemon]

Is that scientific to provide your proof based on what people say on Harmony Central?

Nothing is, or we should be comparing sec specs!
And purely based on specs, the Genesis 3 kills its competition (maybe not the new PODxt).
I'm not trying to attack you for being a POD user, hell I always said to anyone who was interested about amp-modelers:"I've tried most of them, and the Genesis 3 was the clear winner. However, the new PODxt might be something".

But right now the PODxt costs $350-400 and the Genesis 3 is $200. The POD doesn't have a SP/Dif output, but a USB.

 

[Middleman]

I will chime in here to so that others may know. Speeddemon and I covered the G3 awhile ago. It is by far the most versatile device out there. It moves away from that cheesy, crappy high end fizz that so many units use for distortion.

It has the best and cleanest effects other than stand alone pedals. It does not get as dirty as the pods but that kinda of dirty is just not pleasant to the ears nor does it sound good recording.

At $200 bucks its a steal .... and there is a sale at GC this weekend, race you to the store.

 

[charger]

Speeddemon and I covered the G3 awhile ago. It is by far the most versatile device out there.

Thanks for that insight.

It has the best and cleanest effects other than stand alone pedals. It does not get as dirty as the pods but that kinda of dirty is just not pleasant to the ears nor does it sound good recording.

Have you heard the PODxt?
Do you have samples to back up what you're saying, or are you just the final word when it comes to tone?

 

[charger]

USB

The POD doesn't have a SP/Dif output, but a USB.

You mean S/PDIF. That's true, PODxt has USB. I fail to see how that's a liability though...

First, S/PDIF requires that you have a soundcard with S/PDIF. Although some home recordists have cards with S/PDIF, I would guess that the majority of computer users, and even guitarists, do not. (I have three different sets of S/PDIF I/O, but I would guess I am in the minority.) However, every computer you buy now has USB ports. For example, this is the first time I'll be able to record music on my company laptop when I travel.

Second, the audio features are amazing. Not only can you play audio into your computer through the USB port, but you can use it as an audio output or soundcard at the same time. So I can play MP3s in Winamp and listen through the same monitoring system I use for the PODxt, and I can jam along with my MP3s at the same time. It has drivers for MME, WDM, and ASIO, so I can use it as a playback device for, say, Logic or Cubase, while also recording out of it. It's pretty crazy.

Third, USB allows more than just audio. Right now the xt USB is audio only, but in the next update, it will upload and download patches and software updates through USB, and I can finally get rid of those damn MIDI cables and slow MIDI data transfers.

Trust me, it's not going to be the last USB-enabled amp modeler.

 

[Speeddemon]

Re: USB

You mean S/PDIF.

Well, if we're gonna nitpick... It's actually S/P-DIF. (Sony Philips Digital InterFace)
And no, I didn't say USB was a liability, I just happen to have a standalone harddiskrecorder with S/P-DIF I/O...

 

[charger]

LOL! I know what it stands for, but trust me, it's S/PDIF. (http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci213474,00.html)

Yeah, for standalone stuff, it wouldn't be useful to have USB. Take a look at the Digitech home page, they just announced a couple of processors that include USB, go figure

Okay, I just dled and listened to all your samples, and I listened to all of the samples on the Digitech site (http://www.digitech.com/soundcom/sounds.htm). These samples are of the GenX3, which I assume uses the same technology?

Out of your samples, I really dug on the Jahzzy sound, a big warm jazz clean. The surf sound almost did it for me, but it was a too distorted. None of the distortion sounds really did much for me.

Out of the Digitech samples, I though the clean sounds were pretty darn good, and the distortion sounds were weak, overly harsh, and buzzy. Especially when they tried to do really heavy sounds, the sounds were just awful. To me, excellent distortion sounds are pretty vital...

So anyway, I'm gonna run to my local guitar center and demo the thing again at lunchtime. Please tell me what to try and what to look for... If it kicks ass, it can't hurt to have another toy...

 

[Middleman]

Looks like we riled a POD XT owner.

Actually I am the final authority when it comes to spending my money on gear.

As long as you are insinuating lack of experience, I have over 30 years experience playing and recording music. I have played with a couple of named acts, not huge, but they had records on the radio. Nicolette Larson and I fronted for the Ozark Mountain Daredevils, a few others that were famous in the late 70s and early 80s. Played full time for over 15 years on the road. Produced a few artists.

I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on gear over the years. Played rock, blues, pop, country, jazz. So yeah as far as experience on gear I am very experienced and I'm telling you the Genesis 3 is a more versatile tool than the POD. And yes, I have heard the POD XT and it is better than the POD but not as versatile as the G3 in the studio and it still has a cheesy sounding distortion. IMHO

Now see.. I did that without any personal digs.

 

[JR#97]

Another option you guys oughta consider is doing the modeling yourself via impulse files using Sonic Foundry's Acoustic Mirror or Cool Edit Pro's convolusion function. I have models for just about every popular and some not so popular amp out there. But it doesn't stop there... I also have impulse files allowing me to model some pretty gear like mic's, pre's, eq's, tape machines, etc. just to throw out some names:

Fender Super Champ
Matchless Chieften
Soldano
Marshall JCM800
Marshall JCM900
Marshall JCM2000
Fender Bassman
Fender SuperTwin
Focusrite Red
DBX Blue (comp)
Otari A800 (2" analog)
Various AKG mics
Various Neumann mics
Various SPL mics and pieces
blah blah blah

Just another option in the modelling world for ya!

 

[Middleman]

JR#97

That's a great software solution, as well AMP Farm is really good.

 

[crawdad]

I put up some samples of the Genesis 3 here:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/?aid=1522/singles.shtml


Really, only a couple of sounds in a little medley. First tune is the dirty stuff, the next ones are my Fender sound. Last was part of a studio thing I'm doing. Except for the last, all were just played live on my solo gig.