General Recording Help Needed

[gmliv]

Hi All - I tried posting this earlier but it didn't work. Anyway, I've been reading through all the threads here but am still very much lost when it comes to recording.

What I currently have is a Behringer UB1204fx mixer, a Fostex MR8HD, a Studio Projects B1 mic and some other cheap dynamic mic. The way I've been recording is recording an acoustic/electric I have directly into the Fostex, and using the Studio Projects mic for vocals into the mixer so that I can EQ it and then running that into another input on the Fostex. Most of the songs I record have a few guitar parts, a few vocal parts and maybe some percussion here and there.

What I would really like to do is maybe get a couple of small condensor mics so that I can record with a better sounding acoustic guitar that I own. I've tried to record an acoustic with the B1 to the Behringer but have not been pleased with any result I've gotten. No matter what room I record in it sounds like I'm playing the guitar underwater.

If I bought a couple more mics, what would you recommend I get that would help my sound with the equipment I already have? What else would I need? Mic pres? A compressor? Should I try to eliminate using the Begringer altogether? I understand I don't have the best equipment and am not looking for a pro sound, just something that's a little easier on the ears.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[SRR]

How are you miking the guitar with the B1? Try moving the mic around, further away from the sound hole.

 

[drossfile]

i don't know much, but my experience has been that large diaphragm condensers aren't very suitable for close acoustic guitar recording. the best place for your b1 is probably out as a room mic. blending that track with a close mic will give you air and ambience, but the noise will be too high for the room track to be the primary track, and will be unacceptable for a solo track.

for close miking, a small diaphragm condenser pointed at the spot where the fingerboard meets the body is a great starting point. from there it's all experimentation. if you try your cheap dynamic through the behringer and you still get that underwater sound, you know it's the preamp in the mixer that's giving you a headache. if it just sounds muffled but not "underwater" then the muffled sound is due to the fact that it's a dynamic mic, and you've eliminated the mixer as your culprit, and must move on to a more appropriate mic. my personal recommendation is the akg c1000s, because it's such an affordable, good-sounding, extremely versatile mic.

 

[VSpaceBoy]

Well I quite often use only one large diaphram condenser to record my acoustic and I don't get the underwater effect at all. (what does underwater effect mean?)

It could be the room your recording in, or the position of the mic, or alot of other things but we'll need to know exactly what you're doing now.

 

[gmliv]

thanks for the help. i've tried the B1 in a variety of positions - close micing it, moving it a few feet away pointed at different angles but nothing really makes it sound that much better. i'll try some things with the dynamic mic and see if it sounds any better.

i guess when i wrote "underwater" i just meant the sound seemed all dull and murky and muddled with no depth or clarity. very technical terms, i know.

i know it would be difficult to say without hearing it yourself, but do you think a mic pre would help at all, or would it be useless without the proper mic (a small diaphragm condesor?) to record the guitar?

 

[VSpaceBoy]

So dull and muddy, ok.

No, the dynamic won't sound brighter and that mic is just fine for recording that.

I would try putting brand new strings on the guitar first thing

then recording the the largest room you can find.

then put the B-1 about head high if your sitting, about and about a foot away from you, offset from the soundhole around the 10-12 fret, and then aim the mic at the fretboard in that position.

DON'T use a compressor.

You might EQ out a little around 250-320 if it sounds boomy.

 

[Mindset]

It's going to sound like that until you properly mix it down. I've had clients that swore that their stuff sounds like sh*t in the studio or they are not happy with the quality, right after we track it, and I keep telling them that it won't sound like a commercial track until I mix everything down. Like said, you should EQ it & use the tools at your disposal to make it sound better. I forgot the acoustic stuff, but here's the frequencies for a electric guitar... So cut & boost, delay, reverb, etc to the guitar, and it'll sound like a million bucks, if you know what your doing.

Muddy at 100-200Hz
Fullness at 240-500Hz
Bite 2.5kHz
Edge 4K

btw, you can't go direct?

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

It's going to sound like that until you properly mix it down. I've had clients that swore that their stuff sounds like sh*t in the studio or they are not happy with the quality, right after we track it, and I keep telling them that it won't sound like a commercial track until I mix everything down. Like said, you should EQ it & use the tools at your disposal to make it sound better. I forgot the acoustic stuff, but here's the frequencies for a electric guitar... So cut & boost, delay, reverb, etc to the guitar, and it'll sound like a million bucks, if you know what your doing.

Muddy at 100-200Hz
Fullness at 240-500Hz
Bite 2.5kHz
Edge 4K

btw, you can't go direct?

I have to disagree; shit in, shit out is especially apt with acoustic instruments. And as for going direct? I'm guessing you don't record a lot of a guitar? DI guitar (electric or acoustic) sounds fucking awful.

If it sounds crappy from the start all you can hope to achieve with eq is to to maybe make it sound slightly less crappy (if you're lucky).

The SP B1 is a fine mic for recording acoustic guitar (in fact it's one of the things it's best at). The behringer mixer preamp probably isn't helping (you could upgrade to an M Audio DMP-3) but I'd put this months paycheck on the bulk of the problem being your room.

Check out the studio building forum for acoustics advice.

 

[Nick98338]

I record a lot of acoustic guitar with both a Studio Projects C1 and an AT 3035. I've gotten the best *strummed guitar* results by placing the mic a little above the sound hole and about 8-10 inches in front. The mic is pointed parallel to the floor. This way, the mic is not pointed straight at the sound hole, but the sound hole is pointed slightly upward, toward the mic. I hope that made sense. I've tried the 12th fret position and found the sound rather thin, but I sometimes do this when I *want* the guitar to be less "up-front". I've tried closer, farther back, over the shoulder, even tried with the mic around to the back side of the guitar. I didn't like those.
Now, with single string picking, I've found the best results to be mith the mic 6-8 inches away and pointed straight at the guitar, at the neck/body joint. YMMV