General Behringer Rant

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Spaztic

Spaztic

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I have been coming to these boards for awhile. I was just wondering what is the deal with people bashing Behringers products. Its really annoying when someone opens a thread about some behringer product, then automatically some troll comes in and says 'Behringer sucks, get this more expensive product'. Seems that alot of people are trying to justify there purchase of a overpriced product, when they could have gotten the exact same thing made by behringer for hundreds less. What do you guys think?

I own the behringer VAMP2 and also the ub2442fx-pro mixer. I have had these products for over a year and a half and have not had one problem with quality. Granted the built in effects on the mixer are not the greatest but I got it for its mixing capibilites not its effects.
 
Spaz,

Many of those users bashing behringer have graduated from the products you now use. They undoubtedly believed like you now believe that these products were comparable in quality to the products you believe are overpriced. Maybe you can't hear it now, but with time and practice, your ears will become more discerning and you'll notice the sometimes subtle differences.

Audio engineering can be a game of inches. To someone who's worked the board for 6 months or even a few years, it can be hard to hear the differences between quality equipment and knockoffs.

That, and audio engineers are generally uppity and egomaniacal.
 
I was going to say the same thing. There are levels to this game and I know I'm near the bottom. Right now I'm personally happy with the cheaper end of the market. Mainly because I'm poor but partly because I am getting the results I want and can only hear a small difference.

I'm sure one day I'll look back and laugh at the crap I'm using now. Hopefully surrounded by the most awesome preamps and mics in my specially constructed acoustically perfect studio in the countryside.
 
stonepiano said:
That, and audio engineers are generally uppity and egomaniacal.
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How DARE you. Do you have any idea who you're talking to? :D
 
Spaztic said:
I have been coming to these boards for awhile. I was just wondering what is the deal with people bashing Behringers products. Its really annoying when someone opens a thread about some behringer product, then automatically some troll comes in and says 'Behringer sucks, get this more expensive product'. Seems that alot of people are trying to justify there purchase of a overpriced product, when they could have gotten the exact same thing made by behringer for hundreds less. What do you guys think?
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Well usually they are not trolls. They are people that have had bad experiences with Behringer. Most of them will also admit to some good experiences as well...

I totally disagree with your statement that they are trying to justify an overpriced product. Have you ever heard the term "You get what you pay for " ?
 
I think that part of the issue is that people forget about market segmentation. Behringer gear is priced where it is for a reason - it can be made, marketed and sold at a profit for minimal money. To do that the company makes compromises. That's great in one sense because it makes gear accessible to those of us who couldn't otherwise get involved. Like a plywood guitar, it's better than no guitar.

The issue comes into play when someone drops a wad of cash having believed the marketing and having formed unrealistic expectations of the gear. That's discouraging and unfair.

Most of us have used B gear at some point and perhaps still do. I bought two mixers for particular uses; one for a busted, little used parish hall system (no budget) and the other to use as a monitor patch bay. They were both adequate, even pretty good, for a couple of years and then both developed problems. You don't expect great preamps at this price point and I got what I paid for. They did the job. But one fried a power supply and the other became just plain noisy. Well, mixers aren't good for much if they are noisy. Would I have bought them expecting only two years service? At the price, maybe. But I didn't expect only two years service and bought them in spite of warnings from more experienced people.

Cheap gear has cheap components and a short life. I have a couple of B DI boxes. They are useful and they are worth the money. They saved me on one or two occasions. But you simply can't call them "clean." What they are is "way better than nothing five minutes before the gig starts."

The products are clever and the company is creative as all get out. But the marketing seems far to overshoot the products. The "tube gear" runs low current through a tube to get a tube effect. It's a pretty cool effect. But its still an effect.

Real tube gear involves high current, high precision, great attention to detail, frequently hand wiring, high quality transformers, incorporating the tube as a real amplifier. There's a price for all that. But "tubey" effects gear that is marketed as seemingly an equivalent encourages a newbie to learn the difference only after the VISA charge has cleared.

I guess the message is look before you leap.
 
here's my take on Behringer....

i think it's like this.

Lets say that one day, just plain out of the blue, i decide to become a race car driver. I dont know how to operate a car. i just think it might be cool.

so, would it make sense to run out to Hendrick's Motor Sports, and buy Jeff's back up car????? Hell, he's got money, he can get another.

No, i would go down the street, and purchase me a Monte Carlo at Jimmy Joe Bob's Used car and BBQ emporium.

There are plenty of valid lessons to be learned in the regular car before I hop on the track in a real race car.

Did i have to purchase twice? Sure, but the lessons learned were a hell of a lot cheaper in the street car as opposed what would have happened in a real race car.


All joking aside, I think you should buy what you can afford; and then USE IT. Learn it. use it some more.

When you finally get good enough to know (or experienced enough to tell) that the Behri need's to be upgraded, then you will have enough experience to know what you need and want.

I know someone will make this point; just puttting a (name the behri product) in a vocal chain degrades the chain.

Well, I say a behri in the rack (that i can turn the knobs on and learn what they do) is better than a Neve that i can only dream of.

Folks. use it. learn it. Then use it some more.

happy recording
 
Spaztic said:
I have been coming to these boards for awhile. I was just wondering what is the deal with people bashing Behringers products. Its really annoying when someone opens a thread about some behringer product, then automatically some troll comes in and says 'Behringer sucks, get this more expensive product'. Seems that alot of people are trying to justify there purchase of a overpriced product, when they could have gotten the exact same thing made by behringer for hundreds less. What do you guys think?

I own the behringer VAMP2 and also the ub2442fx-pro mixer. I have had these products for over a year and a half and have not had one problem with quality. Granted the built in effects on the mixer are not the greatest but I got it for its mixing capibilites not its effects.
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There is a place for cheap products like what Behringer puts out. There are many hobbyists who can't or don't want to pay for more expensive products, beginners, people starting out who need the capabilities but don't have the money, and also professionals who sometimes need a quick and cheap solution to an immediate need, or a specialty product. So Behringer fills a niche and an important one.

However, it is important to remember where they fit on the studio food chain and not get too wrapped up in their marketing claims, specs and all that nonsense.

Some of their products are better than others. I own a DEQ2496 and am generally very happy with it, although all the features don't work quite right (the ones I need do though, so I keep it). Their Aphex 612 gate knockoff is pretty popular, as is their CT-100 cable tester, a ripoff of the EbTech Swizz Army. The Edison also has a good following.

But what I've seen is that the people that get rabid about defending Behringer across the board are often people that don't own and haven't used really fine studio gear on a daily basis. So they are comparing Behringer only to other low end products, and their ears aren't necessarily trained yet to hear the finer points. Where you get real differences is when you compare it to expensive high end gear. Purely aside from the improved sound of better gear, the higher end gear will probably be much better built and last a lot longer, take more punishment, have a much bigger sweet spot, etc.

So it's a matter of just keeping things in perspective.
 
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To me it's all about trade offs and what I'm prepared to pay (what I can afford) for a given level of quality and performance.

To further radiorickm's analogy, it's like a drag car. If my Trans Am runs 14s, (Behringer, Sounblaster) I might spend $500 to get it to run 13s (Yamaha, Delta series). It might cost me another $5000 to run 12s (Neve, Apogee, Lynx).

It's purely down to how much I'm prepared to spend, and how badly I want that performance. The important thing is I know I'm not goint to get a 12 second car by spending $500
 
Spaztic said:
I have been coming to these boards for awhile. I was just wondering what is the deal with people bashing Behringers products. Its really annoying when someone opens a thread about some behringer product, then automatically some troll comes in and says 'Behringer sucks, get this more expensive product'. Seems that alot of people are trying to justify there purchase of a overpriced product, when they could have gotten the exact same thing made by behringer for hundreds less. What do you guys think?

I own the behringer VAMP2 and also the ub2442fx-pro mixer. I have had these products for over a year and a half and have not had one problem with quality. Granted the built in effects on the mixer are not the greatest but I got it for its mixing capibilites not its effects.
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Valid thoughts, mostly. Some on this board (and elsewhere) have high end equipment, even as amateur/hobbiests. I don't think they have to apologize for having a Soundelux mic or a Groove Tubes Vipre pre. Nor do they bash Behringer products to justify their purchases. Maybe they just think the Behringer stuff sucks the big one, when compared to their $2,500 preamp, or $3,000 compressor or $2,500 microphone or $2,000 monitors. They're right. Behringer stuff (along with many other products) are simply not in the same class as high end gear. Duh.

Talk about "good for the money" all you want. That's a cop out. Behringer does not make anything comparable with high end gear. It's only a matter of money to get from one place to the other. This is America, the easiset place on the planet to get the dough.

More important, however, are the skills we acquire utilizing whatever gear we have available. It took some time for me to earn the money to buy my gear (from my day job). It has taken significantly more time for me (in my spare/hobby time) to learn how to use it. That means alot to me, regardless of the gear. Although I feel connected with my gear, I'm much more connected with the (limited) skill set I've developed to record.

Nonetheless, having high end gear makes things easier, nicer, more fun. It's actually sensual. All other things being equal, there's simply no reason to compare Behringer products to the likes of Pendulum, Manley, Microtech Gefell, etc.

Imagine yourself with high end gear. What would it be? Maybe $25K of stuff? Fine. Go earn the $$ and get it.

It's certainly a better hobby than boats, or race cars or ...
 
sdelsolray said:
More important, however, are the skills we acquire utilizing whatever gear we have available. It took some time for me to earn the money to buy my gear (from my day job). It has taken significantly more time for me (in my spare/hobby time) to learn how to use it. That means alot to me, regardless of the gear. Although I feel connected with my gear, I'm much more connected with the (limited) skill set I've developed to record...
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Those are words of wisdom that bear repeating. That's my story in a nutshell. I am working with the basics and I won't be outgrowing them any time soon.
 
I have $100,000 a year and still buy Behringer

I haave a lot of Behringer Gear.

4 Behringer compressors (no problems ever)
1 Behringer DDX3216 (same here)
1 Behringer M9000 (same here)
2 Behringer DIs (same here)
1 Behringer VX2000 (same here)

I do have some other stuff Joemeek, DBX, Soundcraft, etc.

I make $75,000.00 a year not counting my wifes salary and could buy a lot of nice equipment, but its not that important to me. Yes I work with nice equipment. I'm a sound contractor and a dealer for a lot of companies. I work with Crest, Midas, Soundcraft, Renkus-Heinz, EAW Klark-Tecknek everyday. I can buy gear for about 40-60% cheaper than street price. With the gear I have I get some very good results. My recordings are clean full bodied and sound wonderful and professional. My setup works great for what I want and I'm willing to pay.
 
I play a lot of live shows at various venues from small to large, and always make a point to wander back to the mix position and check out the gear. I'll sometimes see a fair amount of Behringer gear in the racks, especially in the smaller places. Usually the Behringer gear is the graphic eq's, or the feedback killer boxes. I have seen plenty of place that don't use any Bheringer gear either though.

Case in point, the place with the best sound I've ever heard in a live theater used no Behringer. No Mackie, DOD, Digitech, either, no budget gear at all. It was all top dollar stuff, from the DI's on up. And, it was amazing how great it sounded, absolutely superb. As far as comparing venues that stocked up on Behringer and other budget gear to this, absolutely no contest, they aren't even in the running.

The quality of the gear DOES make a difference to how music sounds, but there is a place for budget gear for a variety of reasons.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if those non-Behringer venues had much more experienced sound men, also...and many of them may have cut their teeth on Herr B.
 
sdelsolray said:
Imagine yourself with high end gear. What would it be? Maybe $25K of stuff? Fine. Go earn the $$ and get it.
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The thing is ... for a lot of people 25K is a whole years salary. I think it's all in relation to what someone can afford. Personally, I live in a small apartment, and use my home studio mainly for pre-production. I like to go into a pro studio when my songs are ready to go. (At least for drums and lead vocals). Others on these boards obviously have access to the dollars and the space to put together a more pro quality environment, which is cool. I also like to get out of the house sometimes! :-)
Having said that, the only Behringer gear I own is my headphone amp, and I agree 100% that Behringer gear is not even in the same league as high end electronics. However, it's not priced in the same league either. (For a reason of course).
 
Like I said in my other post. My household income is over $100,000.00 a year and I still buy Behringer. It's not always a money issue. Its a does it fit you needs issue
 
Absolutely. And if you need it to sound great, then clearly Behringer isn't going to be your main choice. I record solely through a Behringer UB series, but I am very aware that when I use my friend's Yamaha MG (which cost the same money), the same rooms, mics and instruments sound better, and we get less hiss.

I wouldn't say that Behringer sucks compared expensive stuff - that's not its job. But in some cases people are buying Behringer because it's shiney and silver and they assume it's the best for their money, when frankly it's often not. I find the chunky square DI boxes quite nice, and prefer the headphone/ctrl room source matrix on the Behringers to the Yamahas, but basically most other Behringer stuff looks like the real thing but doesn't sound like it!
 
i own a few behringer things, and i own some higher end stuff too.
i choose the pre amp that the music needs, not the "most expensive one.
its a subject of taste, character, and color.
not $, $$, or $$$.

peace
 
i have a lot of behringer gear and the only thing to die was a analog model amp, they knew of the problem with the output stage and fixed it, for the kind of work i do in my home studio demos and Ep's, i have never had a complaint from clients regarding sound quality due to the fact they have been in studios with the big ticket equipment, and are getting the same or sometimes better results when they leave. but high end gear pre's and microphones would be nice but with a wife,kid,and home loan what can you do.....
 
So, I just replaced my DVD drive on my main DAW (with a Plextor, of course)...

I threw in The Bourne Identity just for fun and to make sure that it was passing AC3 information...

There was a scene when (Julia Stiles, right?) was monitoring communications of this and that...

Did anyone notice that in movies, the CIA uses Behringer almost exclusively?

I wish I could vid-cap from DVD here - It was pretty hillarious...
 
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