Gear vs. Experience

[DARK_BLU]

That depends on if that engineer is experienced in working with your genre of music and just how good of an engineer that one is. I've worked with Engineers who came to the table with their own ideas about how my guitar tone should be for example, and wanted to choose my amp settings for me without knowing me, anything about me, ever having worked with me, or any experience recording a heavy metal band. There is no way some R&B engineer or country music engineer is going to suddenly be able to produce a heavy metal band without having any familiarity with the genre. There is also no way that I'm going to let any recording engineer choose my amp settings based on HIS ideas, because I am the one who defines my sound. Not some outsider. So, if the engineer in question has worked with your genre of music, he may actually have some ideas that may work well, but neither top shelf gear nor experience that doesn't include your genre, will cause any outside engineer to get a better recording for your music than one who's actually recorded music in your genre. You may not think it matters, but I have experienced this first hand. I'm a heavy metal genre musician and every single time I've been to a commercial studio to record, I get a recording engineer who's never recorded music in my genre, thinks he should choose my amp settings, and tries to be a "producer" and define my sound, rather than just give me what I'm paying for- turn the dials and give me the production I WANT and am paying for. This lead me to study studio recording and construct a home studio with industry standard hardware and software that gives me high production quality for a fraction of the time and money I've wasted in commercial studios.

Just because someone is a professional recording engineer, doesn't guaranty that they're good at it. There are a bunch of half stepping lames with college degrees who aren't very good at their profession, despite having "credentials". By the same token, there are a ton of clowns out there who've got high end recording equipment that have no training, experience, and don't know what they are doing. Even though I studied analog recording in the 80's, I make use of reference materials in order to get the high quality results that I'm getting on my own and my results speak for themselves. My techniques work for me in my genre.

 

[BroKen_H]

Let's just say if Phil Spector got out of jail today and went into a studio, he'd probably get hired and produce great things. But that's only speculation, cause he's out of circulation. Some of the modern techniques weren't even thought of when he went out 4 years ago. But, even he had to move on past the "wall of sound". It takes more than one recording technique to stay on top in the industry, just as it takes more than one hit to be Aerosmith and put in 40 years on the charts. What's important is your drive, your knowledge, and then your gear. So as far as the original question goes, I would say it's probably about 70/30 imo, because with environment and skill you can overcome weak equipment. Vegas were not made for drag racing, but professional drivers have raced them and won! Talent and experience are key (but having the right equipment as well as the right material cannot be minimized).

 

[davem12758]

First Define a Good Recording

Tell you what, Take all that fancy pre setup gear from the most highly thought of engineer, Give them an old $10.00 cassette recorder, and the mike it comes with, and see what they can do with that. Anyone who blows on someone Else's recording just for the sake of criticism in search of that perfect track will Never find it. Bellowing nothing but pompous flatulence in their minds, Engineers haven't gotten better, only the equipment to make it easier, and will only live with Knowing the method used to obtain that awesome sound. A good engineer will always criticize their own work much better than anyone else, and will Never be satisfied with the final results. To thine own self be true. And when is the last time you saw a perfect painting? If all the perfectionists had their way we'd all be spitting out the exact same stuff to feed the machine. No Thanks

 

[lukeslim]

I think experience or skill in using what you have on hand is better than great gear and little of the for-mentioned,this is also very much the case with live sound too i have seen lots of fantastic gear but the live mix was bad. You got have some reasonable tools to start with as being already mentioned but having some one with an ear for your music is vital, a great heavy rock guy may not be able to do justice to acoustic folk band and so on.
I was recently at a large folk festival and the sound in many cases was very poor lots of young guys at the desk with no idea on the music in front of them a Double bass sound was a mystery to them kick drums similar. All the low end was mud they seemed to have only ever listened to doof doof rap or pop sounds and tried to find that sound with folk bands.
I made an album using similar gear in first post and it sounds great i basically done all the tracking than handed the mixing and mastering to a better studio with guys with ears i trusted.
Cheers Luke

 

[Rod Norman]

Didn't really know where to put this thread.

I was wondering what percentage people thought this would break down into.

On the one side, you have gear. This includes everything from instruments (guitars, amps, etc.) to outboard compressors, EQs, etc. to interfaces to plug-ins/tape machines, consoles, and even acoustic treatment and monitors .... whatever. Basically anything that can be added to (or removed from) a system at any time, provided you have the money.

On the other side, you have experience. This is simply everything that an engineer/producer brings with him inside his head (or her head).

If you had to break it down into those two categories only, what percentage do you think each contributes to the final product?

For example, I know that, without a doubt, a pro engineer with decades of experience could get a much better sounding recording from my setup and gear than I could at this point. But I wonder how much better? I have a pretty humble setup including (have a few analog recorders too, but I'll just list digital here):

Yamaha NS10s
Reaper and various plug-ins (some free and a few affordable ones)
M-Audio Delta 1010LT 8 in/out interface
A few outboard delays from the 80s (Roland and Fostex)
DBX 166 stereo compressor
(2) DOD R-825 compressors
80s Tascam M-216 mixer
Few decent pairs of headphones

Mics:
Studio Projects C1 LDC
(2) Oktava MC012 SDC
Some 58s
Some 57s

That's the gist in the studio equipment.

I've treated my control room (11 x 14 ft bedroom with hard floors) with absorptive panels at reflective points and bass traps. I have an adjoining "live room" that's a converted den with wood floors. It's about 12 x 20 ft with 8 foot ceilings and has been treated with bass traps, some diffusers, and some absorptive panels on the ceiling.

Regarding instruments, I've got decent enough stuff (nice tube amps and guitars, nice drum kit, etc.)

So ... having that and only that at their disposal, could a pro engineer come in and create a full-professional-sounding recording that would impress not only the general public, but other recordists/musicians as well? In other words, would it be good enough to stand on its own, or would it need the disclaimer "really good for what he had to work with" or something?

Curious to hear what y'all think.

Thanks!

You have a pretty good setup. Here's where an experienced engineer would improve things without bringing in new gear:
1- You didn't really mention mics. But an experienced engineer knows which mics in your budget level would do the best and they would know most of all where to put them on what instruments. That alone would make for a much better sounding result.
2- They would know whether to compress pre or post recording. Most amateurs don't know the difference.
3- They would know how far to push the meters on which kinds of sounds to get the best tracks.
4- They would know where to set instruments and amps in the rooms you have. (Some engineers point the amps into a corner and place the mic facing the speaker.)
5- They would know how to get the best mix without mucking around with eq.
6- They know the value of "less is more".
7- They know how to get good "imaging" in the mix; a sense of where the music is coming from.
8- They know the frequency ranges of different instruments so they are miles ahead of an amateur in working with eq.
9- They know the value of pre-production and setting up instruments to get the best out of them. Issues like tuning, proper maintenance and avoiding buzzes and noise while adjusting the settings. Although some engineers just let the player do that, others will show them how to get a better sound. They know not to fix it in the mix.
I hope this helps.
Rod Norman