gear to warm up my digital recordings?

You did prove both of our points! Maybe mine more though! :-)

They paid a real guy real money to make the record sound major label. That mixing expertise goes a *long* way toward overcoming any limitations of gear. The mix engineer is probably the most important element, and I highly doubt that Crossfade's album was *mixed* in their home. It was probably mixed at a commercial studio with great gear, all the toys.

If you spend $65,000 on mixing an album: engineer, commercial studio and all, you are not talking about a demo anymore in the sense I was referring to it in this thread.

It is a great story though, and you like to see a band with determination and perserverence get a record deal like that.
 
SonicAlbert said:
You did prove both of our points! Maybe mine more though! :-)

They paid a real guy real money to make the record sound major label.
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Yes, but again the tracking was done with home studio gear.

SonicAlbert said:
That mixing expertise goes a *long* way toward overcoming any limitations of gear. The mix engineer is probably the most important element, and I highly doubt that Crossfade's album was *mixed* in their home. It was probably mixed at a commercial studio with great gear, all the toys.
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Yup, like I said it was mixed by Randy Staub (on the SSL) etc. I agree it went a long way on those home studio tracks!

SonicAlbert said:
If you spend $65,000 on mixing an album: engineer, commercial studio and all, you are not talking about a demo anymore in the sense I was referring to it in this thread.
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But it's not a demo, it's an album they recorded and again those tracks stand up fine. Wasn't Norah Jones' first album a demo? Hers was done with Neumann mics etc. but was still intended to be a demo. They both got record deals.

SonicAlbert said:
It is a great story though, and you like to see a band with determination and perserverence get a record deal like that.
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Exactly! And the point emerges: persevere and don't think you can't make it because you cannot afford a $35,000 console and $6,000 Neumanns. Those things do make a difference but again I don't want people discouraged who have talent but not the cash for the "pro" gear. We've all seen "pro" gear net pretty tragic results and have all been guilty of bad sound with good gear at times. Music always wins with satisfactory gear and sometimes less than satisfactory.

The nice tools do make life nicer though.

War :D
 
You've made great points, and I don't want to pick nits. BUT, the gear does make a difference because the album that got them their deal was mixed by a pro on an SSL with other high end gear involved.

So while it is fair to say that perhaps you don't need the huge cash outlay on gear to get ahead, this band *did* put out the cash outlay, and didn't get ahead until they did that. They made the right choice for them. I personally have chosen to put the money into my own studio, and then hire an engineer in here. I'm paying for his time, but not studio time because I own it. That works for me.

While I agree that no one should get discouraged about recording just because they don't have a drool rack, by the same token it can be a bit misleading to say that you don't need the high end stuff or the pro mix engineer either. I'd say it's more important to get an excellent professional mix engineer involved than to have a ton of top end gear.

My first album was done on Mackie CR-1604's, and it charted #1 nationally on the NAV Top 100 Radio Airplay charts. The album sounded great then and still does now. I brought in a killer mix engineer, someone with great credits, who did a bang-up job.

My studio is a lot more evolved now, so the results are even better, plus there are more options as far as processing, etc. I can hear the improvements as I make good gear choices. It's interesting. So again, while nobody should be intimidated out of recording just because they don't have hig end gear, they should also be aware that the good stuff *really does* make a difference.

The line between demos and finished product has been blurred a bit. Demos are probably much better than they used to be as far as production values.
 
SonicAlbert said:
I'd say it's more important to get an excellent professional mix engineer involved than to have a ton of top end gear.
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If you're lucky enough to live in a market where you have access to rentals, then quality of gear shouldn't be an issue. Just use what you got and rent what you don't. Think about it: If you've got a family reunion or graduation party coming up, are you going to go out and buy a tent for it, along with the Porta Johns? C'mon, now.

It's all about knowing what the heck you're doing and having talent and a good ear to go along with that knowlege.
 
Bowisc said:
You're looking for a sound that resembles the characteristics of tape saturation,then there are tools that will get you close, if you're willing to experiment.

PSP Vintage Warmer plug-in is pretty decent if you want an inexpensive shot at it.
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Here's a link to PSP. Try the Vintage Warmer, (free demo) you've got nothing to lose. It works well for me. PSP plug-ins in general are very "analog-like" sounding.


http://www.pspaudioware.com/indexen.html
 
chessrock said:
If you're lucky enough to live in a market where you have access to rentals, then quality of gear shouldn't be an issue. Just use what you got and rent what you don't. Think about it: If you've got a family reunion or graduation party coming up, are you going to go out and buy a tent for it, along with the Porta Johns? C'mon, now.

It's all about knowing what the heck you're doing and having talent and a good ear to go along with that knowlege.
Click to expand...

It's also all about knowing what you *can't* do, and compensating for that by bringing in people who have areas of expertise that compliment your own. That involves some self-scrutiny and acceptance of weaknesses.

There's also the element of commitment. Willingness to put it all on the line and lay some real bread down in order to get *results* that are top end. That's what that band War is talking about did. There has to be a burning desire to have results that are second to none.

My goal with my first album was to create tracks that would stand up to the best in the genre, and be basically in the top 5% as far as quality of recorded sound and concept. Didn't matter to me if it didn't chart or sell or whatever, it just had to be good, that's all. There has to be a burning desire, a desire so strong it wipes away all the compromises that inevitably fall across one's path. So yeah, you've got to have the talent and ear, but you've also got to have that powerful will to push the project to the next level all the time. It's maybe more about that than anything else.

As far as renting, if you hire a professional recording engineer they will also most likely have some of their own gear they are willing to bring as well. So that can kill two birds with one stone so to speak.

I prefer to have my studio well-equipped with my own gear because it allows me to set everything up in advance and have it ready to go. Saves setup time and makes the session flow smoother because I know the gear, patching, cables, etc., etc.
 
SonicAlbert said:
It's also all about knowing what you *can't* do, and compensating for that by bringing in people who have areas of expertise that compliment your own. That involves some self-scrutiny and acceptance of weaknesses.
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If you could call it that. To the extent that not being able to do absolutely everything is a weakness.

Even for the truly hardcore DIY's . . . I mean verticle and/or horizontal integration can only go so far before you get severely diminishing returns on your time. When you have people writing, singing, performing (playing all the instruments), AND producing their own material . . . where else is there to go? :D The next step, I guess, would be to design and manufacture all of your instruments. Then you could take up printing and learn how to press your own CD labels, I suppose, but even that might not be DIY enough for some guys. :D

I guess there's some novelty to someone who's versatile and can do a lot of things, but it's not very practical or even entertaining in a real-world sense.
 
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After listening to "So long farewell" on my computer speakers at work, my guess is that your recording room is too dead, you are not placing your microphones properly and you are letting the guitar player have far too much influence on the mixing. :D Just my 2 öre (swedish).
 
In addition to the Vintage Warmer plugin, PSP audioware also makes a collection of four plugins called "The MixPack."

The MixPressor compressor is really colored and warm. Also included is something called the "MixSaturator," which is a preamp emulator plugin.

Cheap solution - $150.00. Probably not a "fatso" or "distressor" quality fix, but worth a shot. The demos are free.

Lastly, Mateusz, the head of PSP is a dedicated, friendly guy. He'll answer all your questions quickly and intelligently.

Ken
 
Oh boy, the ol' how do I make my recordings "warm" crap followed by "get a vintage "warmer" or a mix saturator", etc. etc. etc. First off we need an quantifiable operational definition of what "warm" means in order for us to understand what you desire. Terms like this get bandied about in my control room from day to day and I don't understand what the hell anyone is talking about. Do you mean tape saturation, harmonic distortion, head bump, tape at 15 ips vs. 30 ips. dolby SR vs. Dolby A or undecoded NR, A certain tape formulation, Ampeg vs. Studer (what Ampeg Model vs. What studer Model), etc. etc. etc. and this is only the recording medium as applied to analog and a small portion at that without any consideration for mics, pre's, mic placement, room acoustics, blah blah blah. No vintage "warmer" will give you the desired effect as most of these devices generate the type of "effect" that analog engineers try to eliminate in the first place! The amount of these artifacts present in a properly calibrated and aligned machine I submit are minimal and essentially inconsequential. I beleive your recordings as Dot put it actually don't sound "right" and your are mistaking this for it not sounding "warm" I beleive a generation has now grown up without actually ever using an analog machine a beleive the fault is their digital machine not sounding "analog" enough without actually having ever heard an entirely analog chain in a professional studio. I have made wonderful recordings in the digital medium which has vastly improved in the last several years and they sounded "right" Granted I have several decades of experience, wonderful converters, excellent mics and pre's, good sounding rooms and mixing down on my wonderful analog desk certainly helps matters. I certainly know if my 2" sounded like a vintage "warmer" I'd have it fixed. Please understand companies manufacturing "analogizing" products don't want you to know the truth: you need experience and knowledge, good room acoustics and good musicians in order to get good recordings. It's getting kind of "warm" in here, eh?
 
Hello, this may seem off topic but i'm relatively new to home recording (i've been around studios but never tried to record at home until now) and I have a question about equipment to buy. I'm looking at recording straight to my hard drive (I have a decent computer) and I would like your opinions on an interface (convertors and pres) that will give me the most "right" sounding recordings. This seems to be the way the conversation is headed and if any of you experienced home recorders could point me to some good equipment (not pro level prices but solid for home recording) that'd be great. If this should be in another forum, let me know. Also, I realize the importance of good mics, room, and placement so i'm not asking for a comment on that, just on the best way to get sound from the mics to my harddrive. Thanks
 
Everybody knows that you use T-Racks to warm up your digital recordings! (Please don't beat me Blue Bear!)


My warmest recordings were all done with a Studer.. however these days I don't have access to such a fine piece of gear. Now I do my own recordings at home with your basic Fostex 16track digital unit and the masters sound clear and crisp..not to mention rather digital. Do I have a problem with this? Nope! I've tried many different things to "warm" up my recordings from software, mastering to reel-to-reel, etc. All I noticed is that my digital recordings still sound digital but with a pathetic washover (attempt) to warm them up with whatever method I had used. Many people wouldn't notice but I can tell a digital recording that has had something done to it to try and "warm" it up. Most often it makes the digital recording sound worse.

Granted, professionals can do it right but then again.. professionals start from scratch instead of trying to apply a "plug" or whatever to the master in a pathetic attempt to warm it up when the damage has already been done.


If you want warm.. best go with a Studer from the get-go.


//AdrianFly
 
Sweetnubs,

Have you tried those PSP plugs? They've got character, I tell you. I agree with you - plugs are no substitute for getting a warm analog / tape sound the "right way."

The Arturia Moog Modular V is no thirty-thousand dollar is no replacement for the real deal either, but a guy can get into the ball park with the thing.

Sounds like you're a pro, and I'm a hobbyist! Which is ok - we need both types. I'm wondering of which ilk the original poster identifies himself with...

As for your idea that many of us have started using the term "warm," when we really mean "right-sounding," that's some interesting food for thought. A friend of mine, upon building his Neve-clone preamp announced, "I've learned digital isn't really the culprit afterall..."
 
Hey Sweetnubs,

You kind of came off as sournubs on that post. And as Ben said, have you tried any PSP plugs? Craig Anderton did, and wrote a very favorable review of the Vintage Warmer for EQ.

I merely suggested it because I thought it might be of some value to the original poster. It's kind of a multi-band comp/limiter with some unusual features. I'm sure it doesn't sound like what you record with, but it has made some changes to my humble home recordings that are pleasing to my ear.
 
Guys . . .


Sweetnumbs tells the truth. And the only reason he comes accross as being sour sometimes is because he often tells the truth that many of us don't want to hear.

Yes, some plugins like the PSP or any other processor for that matter, can make for a cool effect on certain things. No one's dismissing the use of certain processors or plugins for their utilities -- but they are effects, and nothing more.

What the nubs is getting at is that none of these thingies or effects are substitutes for proper tracking and mixing practices.

I'm sure that the 'nubs would agree that even recordings done on his 2" Studer can sound pretty "cold" (if that's a term) when placed in the wrong hands or used improperly. Most of the time, what people think of as "warm" has very little to do with the recording medium (or any other piece of technology), and everything to do with how it was tracked.
 
Warhead said:
http://www.taxi.com/transmitter/0305/headlineA0305.html

I'm just trying to prove a point here.

These guys recorded their album in their house with an AKG C3000B (not a great mic by anyone's standards), triggers and an Alesis D5, Pods, and Cakewalk. They didn't use any special converters etc. They didn't have a high end preamp either.

And they've got a record deal with Columbia.

Now, to illustrate your point, they did pay Randy Staub about $65,000 to mix the album for them for major label release.

I am still in agreement with you, in that you can severely limit yourself in some cases by using bottom of the barrel gear. But, the music always wins. These guys have what the label considers to be good songs and that was all they needed. Besides...think of how much money Columbia saved by not having to pay for a full production!

It can happen, that's really all I'm trying to say. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just know there are thousands of people looking at these sites thinking that their music doesn't have a chance because they don't have a $3,000 preamp or a $6,000 Neumann mic.

BUT, when we start moving beyond the Behringer and Mackie mixers you can clearly hear the difference. My life is SO much easier with several high end mics to choose from and better mic pres etc. and it makes a real difference. But you and I are fortunate enough to be able to afford this stuff also!

By the way, Crossfade are really nice guys who are in their 30's, married with kids, and they STILL made it in rock n' roll! I assisted on an album they did in the early 90's when they were called "The Nothing" (that Taxi writeup erroneously calls them "The Nothingness").

War :cool:
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This popped up today in my email. It's a great interview and all the gear they used to record and all the 'mysteries' are brought to light in it.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/content/doc_id=98545/src=3NL5E5?c_lid=a8
 
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