Gating kick and snare

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chris Jahn
  • Start date Start date
C

Chris Jahn

New member
I have learned some new mic placements that cut bleed quite a bit from the snare, but its still there of course.

Who out there would rather gate the kick and snare and who would rather EQ out the things you dont want to hear?
 
Last edited:
Well compressing won't help you very much. In fact it'll cause for more severe bleed. Usually why people would want less bleed is so they have greater control of the individual drum's dynamics (compression and overall volume). Otherwise what would be the point of reducing bleed within the drum kit? OK, maybe a lil bit of comb filtering.... but I'd rather have that tiny bit of comb filtering than EQ.
An expander will help, but that's basically a gate.
EQing to reduce bleed? That is a horrible reason to use EQ. For me EQ is reserved for making the instruments/overall mix sound good. Unless for what ever reason the lack of bleed makes for a better mix :p.

So, yes expanding / gating is the superior method, second only to mic technique.

But first you must ask yourself is it really all that necessary?
 
Personally... I don't gate anything with the drums. I've played around with it, but was never happy with the results. The drums are a very acoustical instrument, and to my ears, the bleeds helps them sound natural, organic, and real. It can be difficult sometimes to get the kits sound squared away, but thats the only way I do it. The kit needs to sound good, the mic placement and choice is important, and the drummer has to be consistent... but in the end it's worth it.

I have 8 gate channels, and I don't think I've ever used them in production.
 
With gating, just as in Drumadog' replacement, blending a bit of an exagerated version of the single track (snare/kick, whatever) of what's missing blended with the O/H pushes it with out loosing everything.
Or use both, a processed one to control the sound on a verb feed.
 
eyeteeth said:
The kit needs to sound good, the mic placement and choice is important, and the drummer has to be consistent.
Click to expand...
Amen, brother. Especially that last one.

Get those right and the rest is unnecessary.

Get those wrong and the recording is not worth keeping.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
..Get those wrong and the recording is not worth keeping.

G.
Click to expand...
Do we still get paid after getting one of those sesions? :) :D
 
mixsit said:
Do we still get paid after getting one of those sesions? :) :D
Click to expand...
Hell yeah. It's not our fault if the drummer sucks or if he uses a kit that sucks.

The only thing we're directly responsible for in front of the glass is the mic placement - and maybe for the drum tuning, or at least talking to the drummer about the tuning. But if the drummer's kit sounds like mashed potatoes no matter how we tune it, or (as is usually the case in these instances) the drummer can't hit a freakin' snare or kick with consistancy to save his life - that is, if he can't play drums - that's not our fault or our problem.

Did Yoko Ono get her sessions for free just because she can't sing like Etta James? :D

G.
 
I sometimes gate snare and kick in metal or modern rock songs if the song is asking me to smash the hell out of the drums. If I'm recording a funk or jazz group who needs to sound live I want as much bleed as possible. Then again I never put as much EQ on my drums in those types of mixes, and dynamics become more important, so processing of any sort isn't really needed.

EQing to take out bleed seems like a bad idea

Ben
 
FYI he (thread starter, Chris Jahn) originally posted to use compression to remove bleed.

Then AFTER I posted he deleted that tidbit. So in case everybody's wondering why I said what I did.... :rolleyes:

Chris Jahn, you need to learn some forum etiquette. :mad:
 
For me it's all about mic technique. As eyeteeth said, drums are an acoustic instrument. They're meant to be heard the way they are. I don't gate and I don't do a whole lot of EQ if I can avoid it. If the drummer's good and the heads are relatively fresh and well tuned, there shouldn't be a whole lot of work involved after the mics are up.
 
Chris Jahn said:
I have learned some new mic placements that cut bleed quite a bit from the snare, but its still there of course.

Who out there would rather gate the kick and snare and who would rather EQ out the things you dont want to hear?
Click to expand...
Definetly not EQ to get rid of bleed.

I cant seem to get gates to work good on my drums.
They always seem to kill the attack of the drums.
Im using the Waves gate.

Eck
 
With the Kick, I'm only concerned with sound. I don't really worry about bleed when placing the mic. If it's inside the shell, bleed is unlikely. If I end up with the mic on the outside, I'll often drape a heavy blanket over it and hope for the best.

The snare, on the other hand, is a different story. I try first to reduce bleed based on placement of the pieces of the kit. The hi-hat is my main concern here. Also, how hard the drummer hits his cymbals is a huge concern. Next, would come mic placement. But, even then, sound is more important than bleed.

After all of that is taken care of, if there is still a problem, I will use a gate. But, without full attenuation. I would NEVER gate before the sound hits tape/hard drive. Also, look for a gate that has some kind of look-ahead feature to avoid chopping off your drums' attack.
 
ecktronic said:
...I cant seem to get gates to work good on my drums.
They always seem to kill the attack of the drums.
Im using the Waves gate.

Eck
Click to expand...
Nice thing about the soft-plugs, you can set about a ms lookahead'. The Sonitus even has a nice 'punch eq that helps kick up a too-fat close mic.
 
If you want that snappy, heavily compressed snare sound with a slow attack setting, you usually need to use a gate. This still won't help if you haven't minded your placement, as when that gate opens, if cymbols are being hit at the same time as the snare, you'll hear it. Most luck I've had is just having the mic a couple inches above the rim, pointed across the batter head at the drummer's torso/crotchal region. If you're still having a problem, replace drummer and repeat.
 
I use gates on tom tracks.
It enables me to add a good slappy 8-10k boost, withough hearing the nasty tom mic bleed that accompanies such a boost. With out a gate, especially after such an agrresive boost, the overheads would sound too harsh.

Ill also gate the kick if i want its resonance to be cut short.

The snare ill gate if the drummer hits consistently.
If the drummer hits inconsistent and is a wild thrasher type, ill trigger the snare and tuck it underneath the original snare for more consitency in the mix.

The biggest problem with a gated snare is a guy that fucking HAMMERS his hi hats. Itll just sound like the guy whacked his hi-hat REALLY hard everytime the gate opens up for the sanre. Which to me sounds corny.


You want to know what the real alternative to that is?

Notice this issue before tracking even begins.
And tell the guy "So look bro, if you mash your hats that hard and hit your snare that softly, this recording wont turn out the way we'd all like it to"

Of course you say this tactfully, and respectfully.

Itll probably take a few tries, but after he (hopefully) does it right,
you can go on with your day, and mix your drums in peace.
 
mixsit said:
Nice thing about the soft-plugs, you can set about a ms lookahead'. The Sonitus even has a nice 'punch eq that helps kick up a too-fat close mic.
Click to expand...
Nice one.
Eck
 
xfinsterx said:
I use gates on tom tracks.
It enables me to add a good slappy 8-10k boost, withough hearing the nasty tom mic bleed that accompanies such a boost. With out a gate, especially after such an agrresive boost, the overheads would sound too harsh.
Click to expand...
I dont bother with gates on the toms. I usually replace them with samples Ive made so there is no bleed. And I play about with the attack and volume of the toms to get a realistic sound.

Kick and snare I use the original recording but sometimes place kick samples under the original kick if compression doesnt give me the desired consistency, or the kick is to punchy or not punchy enough.

Eck
 
ecktronic said:
I cant seem to get gates to work good on my drums.
They always seem to kill the attack of the drums.
Im using the Waves gate.

Eck
Click to expand...


wtf is up with that gate?

at least i'm not the only one, no matter how i set a waves gate i ALWAYS loose attack (o' course i don't use them because of it)
and the rest of there stuff is so good too........
 
giraffe said:
wtf is up with that gate?

at least i'm not the only one, no matter how i set a waves gate i ALWAYS loose attack (o' course i don't use them because of it)
and the rest of there stuff is so good too........
Click to expand...
I always thought it was either the drums being too dynamic or my skills at fault.
Good to hear it could just be a pish gate! :)

Eck
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top