Gain = Volume Level and Volume Level = Gain

[Nick The Man]

are these the same thing .. for example how on a mixer there is gain and there is level ... are they identical

 

[bennychico11]

the gain you're seeing is probably the preamp control. This boosts the microphone signal before it even enters the rest of the channel strip.
The fader at the bottom of the strip can give you extra gain before sending it onto the stereo buss. Proper gain staging starts with the source and continues through until it gets back to your ears.

If the instrument you're recording is too quiet, turn it up.
If it's too loud and you can't turn it down, add a pad.
Boost or lower the volume with the preamp
Boost certain frequencies
Add a compressor if needed
Raise the fader if you still need more signal
etc.

The ideal way would be to just leave everything in the mixer at unity and still get perfect level on the output with perfect EQ and dynamics. So leave everything at unity, and then start turning things beginning at the source. Less noise and less distortion will enter your signal.

 

[Nick The Man]

ohhhhh ok .. ive always used the level faders but maybe ill do a little test and see what sounds better thanks

anyone else?

 

[dgatwood]

Boost early, boost often?

Seriously, though.... In an ideal world, with all amp stages being equal, your best bet is to gain up early. That way the audio through the remainder of the chain will be at a relatively high level, and thus any noise introduced during the remainder of the chain will be lower proportional to the signal level.

All things being unequal, though, boost as much as you can with the amp stage that introduces the least noise.... Experiment.

 

[Nick The Man]

Boost early, boost often?

Seriously, though.... In an ideal world, with all amp stages being equal, your best bet is to gain up early. That way the audio through the remainder of the chain will be at a relatively high level, and thus any noise introduced during the remainder of the chain will be lower proportional to the signal level.

All things being unequal, though, boost as much as you can with the amp stage that introduces the least noise.... Experiment.

ok yeah cool ... ive already been messin around

 

[Adam P]

Solo a channel and bring the gain up so that only the loudest of your peaks make the clip indicators light up, with your average levels much lower. Then use the channel fader to adjust the level to the 2-mix.

I think of it as this: The gain is for the absolute level. The channel fader is for the relative level.

 

[Nick The Man]

Solo a channel and bring the gain up so that only the loudest of your peaks make the clip indicators light up, with your average levels much lower. Then use the channel fader to adjust the level to the 2-mix.

I think of it as this: The gain is for the absolute level. The channel fader is for the relative level.

hmm cool way to think of it

thanks

 

[wx3]

Well here's better advice...

Leave your fader at unity, and adjust your trim so that your peaks are at the nominal operating level of your recording equipment.

 

[Nick The Man]

so dont let the peak lights go on?... keep things right on the breaking point of peaking

 

[Farview]

so dont let the peak lights go on?... keep things right on the breaking point of peaking

Does your board have meters? If it does, use them to set your levels.

There is no reason for anything but drums to sometimes hit the peak light. If you are hitting the peak light with, for example, a distorted guitar, you are just recording way too hot.

 

[Nick The Man]

Does your board have meters? If it does, use them to set your levels.

There is no reason for anything but drums to sometimes hit the peak light. If you are hitting the peak light with, for example, a distorted guitar, you are just recording way too hot.

yeha ok thats what i thought ... no i dont have meters but im saving for a board that does have meters so ... hoprfully ill have that soon

 

[Farview]

yeha ok thats what i thought ... no i dont have meters but im saving for a board that does have meters so ... hoprfully ill have that soon

There aren't even a main set of meters for the output?

 

[Nick The Man]

There aren't even a main set of meters for the output?

oh well yeah .. use the solo button then ... i forgot about doin that

 

[Farview]

oh well yeah .. use the solo button then ... i forgot about doin that

You read my mind. Set the levels so they are at 0dbVU. Make sure you read the scale, some mixers are different than others in the way they implement the meter.

 

[Nick The Man]

ok so this is what ive been doing :

turning the gain/trim all the way up and then moving the leve/fader up until im at 0

 

[Farview]

ok so this is what ive been doing :

turning the gain/trim all the way up and then moving the leve/fader up until im at 0

That is the exact opposite of what you are supposed to do.

put the fader at unity (the scale along the fader might say 0) hit solo and set the level with the gain/trim control.

The gain control is for bringing the incoming signal up to or down to line level. The faders are for setting the relative volumes of the different channels against each other.

 

[Nick The Man]

That is the exact opposite of what you are supposed to do.

put the fader at unity (the scale along the fader might say 0) hit solo and set the level with the gain/trim control.

The gain control is for bringing the incoming signal up to or down to line level. The faders are for setting the relative volumes of the different channels against each other.

aaaaaa ok cool ill do that .. sounds like a better idea lol

so pretty much the way my boards faders will all be set the same but the gain knob will be diofferent for eachone

 

[dgatwood]

That is the exact opposite of what you are supposed to do.

put the fader at unity (the scale along the fader might say 0) hit solo and set the level with the gain/trim control.

The gain control is for bringing the incoming signal up to or down to line level. The faders are for setting the relative volumes of the different channels against each other.

I would caution that this depends on how the mixer is built. If the faders drive a VCA, you are correct. If the faders are pure analog variable resistors, it may actually be a cleaner signal with them all the way up and lower preamp gain.

The reason for this is that the mixer is actually boosting beyond unity and the fader is just cutting it back down (or occasionally vice-versa). You're going to have that gain up prior to the fader anyway, so you might as well not add an additional cut with the fader and additional gain at the preamp, as this will just add additional noise unnecessarily.

That is, of course, unless there's enough noise induced in the signal path between the preamp's output and the pre-fader gain stage, in which case it again becomes beneficial to have the fader at unity gain (or even lower if there's enough headroom) and have the preamp gain hotter, as the noise introduced in that short section of inter-stage wiring would be smaller proportional to the signal at that stage. This is, of course, unlikely.

The point is that there are no hard and fast rules. Without seeing a schematic for the mixer in question, these are only general suggestions. You have to experiment to see if the suggestions are correct for your particular mixer.

 

[dgatwood]

Solo a channel and bring the gain up so that only the loudest of your peaks make the clip indicators light up, with your average levels much lower. Then use the channel fader to adjust the level to the 2-mix.

Yikes! The clip indicators shouldn't ever come on. You should set it so that they barely light up, then roll it back. In most mixers I've seen, as soon as that clip light comes on, your preamp stage is clipping audibly (and unpleasantly....

I think of it as this: The gain is for the absolute level. The channel fader is for the relative level.

True, but personally, I'd remember it this way instead: A gain control is a boost. A fader is a cut. Most modern faders with unity gain indents are also a boost above the 0 dB mark, but that depends on how the circuit is designed.

You can be pretty much assured that lowering a fader below 0 dB represents a cut (which should pretty much not be used unless you are actively riding the levels), while raising gain represents a boost (which should be used only to the minimum extent necessary to get the desired output level).

As always, YMMV.

 

[treymonfauntre]

volume knob is an attenuator