gain staging/waveform

[davecg321]

hey

when i set up the gain on my interface correctly making sure not to clip (peaking at around -6 max!) i get around -10 db in cubase. after recording my visual waveforms sometimes look quite small and weedy! haha and peak somewhere around -15 to -10 db.

i read in some article on the net that digital interfaces are calibrated this way to read Dbs at lower level thus avoiding clipping within DAWs

the perceivable volume still seems to be there... i am just worried that if i need to raise a particular tracks volume i will effectively be raising the noise floor.

any ideas?

dave

 

[snow lizard]

The noise floor being what?

At around the levels you're describing I find that individual elements in a mix rarely need much boost and sometimes get brought down to leave enough headroom. If you print hotter levels you risk overdriving the front end and there's nothing you can do to get rid of it.

 

[davecg321]

yes you are correct, nearly all the time i am turning down levels. i was just concerned that if i needed to considerably raise a track would this not in turn raise the noise level of that track (background, equipment etc..)

 

[mixsit]

... nearly all the time i am turning down levels.

.. i was just concerned that if i [snip] raise a track.. would this not in turn raise the noise level of that track (background, equipment etc..)

Yep. But.. think about what you just said. When you turn the track up- all that noise comes up with it.
..just like it all went down with everything else when you turn a track down


So, what's really going on here is.. the noisiest thing in in your track.. was those background noises.

Let's say they were 40 or 50 db below you average vocal' signal. Not a pristine perfect 'stands alone solo track, but fine and usable in most contexts.
Down around 30db below that let's say is your mic and preamp noise floor.

All this stuff moves up and down as you raise and lower a track. (And as you add compression all that lower stuff gets even worse relative to your final track level

Upshot-
It's your initial recording conditions where you set how noisy' the tracks are.
If you turn it up now' (at tracking) or do it later ('mix... it's damned near same same

- when i set up the gain on my interface correctly making sure not to clip (peaking at around -6 max!)
- i get around -10 db in cubase.
- after recording [snip] peak somewhere around -15 to -10 db.

If the interface has decent meters (reasonably accurate) and read peak dBs below full scale for its converter, it would align very close to the same as the peak meter in your record app. And.. if all your levels (track 'trim/'gain, fader) are all set 'zero -unity- , would also align with your track's playback peak meter.

Interface 'clip lights may not be set for 'zero dBFS either.

 

[Farview]

hey

when i set up the gain on my interface correctly making sure not to clip (peaking at around -6 max!) i get around -10 db in cubase. after recording my visual waveforms sometimes look quite small and weedy! haha and peak somewhere around -15 to -10 db.

There are a few things that might be happening. The most likely one is the meters on your interface are giving you an analog reading using dbVU and cubase is giving you a digital level in dbFS. The meters are telling you two different things about the same signal and both are correct from the perspective of what the meters are actually reading.

Another one might be just the meters on the interface only have a few bars and don't have the resolution to tell you exactly what the level is.

The problem of the waveform display being really small is taken care of by one of the three zoom controls. The zoom control on across the bottom of the screen on the right is to zoom in and out of the time line. The vertical zoom control above it controls how tall the tracks are. There is another vertical zoom control on the top right, that controls the size of the waveforms. (it does not affect volume, just the display)

 

[jaynm26]

hey

when i set up the gain on my interface correctly making sure not to clip (peaking at around -6 max!) i get around -10 db in cubase. after recording my visual waveforms sometimes look quite small and weedy! haha and peak somewhere around -15 to -10 db.

i read in some article on the net that digital interfaces are calibrated this way to read Dbs at lower level thus avoiding clipping within DAWs

the perceivable volume still seems to be there... i am just worried that if i need to raise a particular tracks volume i will effectively be raising the noise floor.

any ideas?

dave

what farview said

 

[bouldersoundguy]

when i set up the gain on my interface correctly making sure not to clip (peaking at around -6 max!) i get around -10 db in cubase. after recording my visual waveforms sometimes look quite small and weedy! haha and peak somewhere around -15 to -10 db.

There's often a few dB of added safety margin on analog meters going to converters. Considering that "-15 to -10" in the DAW is just about right it's a good thing the meters are like that.

 

[Mo Facta]

hey

when i set up the gain on my interface correctly making sure not to clip (peaking at around -6 max!) i get around -10 db in cubase. after recording my visual waveforms sometimes look quite small and weedy! haha and peak somewhere around -15 to -10 db.

Are you using stereo or mono tracks to record to?

In Cubase, the pan law can sometimes confuse levels across the board. The gist of it is that if your pan law is set to -3, mono sources going to stereo busses or groups will be attenuated by 3dB. First thing to check is the metering on the audio interface software (if it came with any). Next thing to check are the input channels in cubase. Do you know how to view them? It is usually the first "hide/show channels" button at the left of the mixer. If your interface has metering in its own software, compare it with what Cubase is reporting on input. Note that if you've routed a mono input to a stereo track and your pan law is set to -3dB, you'll get a discrepancy.

i read in some article on the net that digital interfaces are calibrated this way to read Dbs at lower level thus avoiding clipping within DAWs

That is what is called 'internet wisdom' and it is usually bullshit.

the perceivable volume still seems to be there... i am just worried that if i need to raise a particular tracks volume i will effectively be raising the noise floor.

any ideas?

dave

If you have recorded with peaks in the range you describe, there shouldn't be a noise issue when you raise the level.

Cheers

 

[bouldersoundguy]

That is what is called 'internet wisdom' and it is usually bullshit.

I just tested my Mobile Pre USB and when the interface clip light blinks my software meter reads -2.3dBFS.