FxCK!!! Just bollocksed my nut :|

[legionserial]

Actually I changed the string to 052 gauge after reading your post - and for one thing, it's alot easier to play (man, pinch harmonics.. it was nearly impossible to hit those on the 060 gauge one ) . Another thing I noticed straight away about either of those strings - it keeps the tone more under control, I suppose it's because they resonance less comparing to 038 gauge.

My guitar is pretty much always tuned to D standard. My low E is always a 46 and has been for years, and I have had no problems with going drop-C with that guage.

I think the low B on my 7-string is a 52, but I really can't remember. I haven't changed the strings in a while because I don't use it much.

 

[ofajen]

My guitar is pretty much always tuned to D standard. My low E is always a 46 and has been for years, and I have had no problems with going drop-C with that guage.

I think the low B on my 7-string is a 52, but I really can't remember. I haven't changed the strings in a while because I don't use it much.

Electric is easier than acoustic, for sure, when it comes to drop tunings. First, you don't really have to worry about lack of volume. And most electrics have adjustable saddles to tweak intonation.

Still, a typical nickel plated steel round wound of .046" tuned to C on 25" scale is gonna give you about 11 pounds of tension. That's pretty low. Assuming the other strings have around 17-20 pounds of tension on an electric with light gauge strings, that low C is going to sound at least somewhat flabby and there will be a tendency to have notes pull sharp when fretted, just because the fretting force will bend those slack strings much more than the other strings. A .056" string would feel about right at low C if .046" is what you use at low E.

The problem is much more vexing with standard acoustic guitars with a 25' scale and tuning to low C. With an acoustic, you need the bigger gauge and stronger tension to get reasonable acoustic tone and volume, but then you run into intonation issues and most acoustics aren't set up for adjusting the intonation.

I typically have 25-30 pounds of tension on most acoustic strings and would like to have at least 25 pounds on the lowest string. But at low C, even a .058" string only delivers 19 or 20 pounds. That's about the best compromise, which is probably why John Pearse and the Guitar Craft folks package sets with either a .058" or .059" sixth string. It would take a .066" string to deliver 25 pounds of tension, but the 25" scale is really too short to properly sound a string that thick.

Cheers,

Otto

 

[CoolCat]

Man, a hundret bucks! Knowing our prices in the UK it would easily be a hundret quid. I might as well think of getting a new guitar in this case

I tested my guitar last night after the clue had hardned, and it held on for half an hour without breaking again. It seems now I can only have my fingers crossed, or start saving for a new axe.

I doubt glue will work?

I'll bet you could put one in yourself, if $100 is too much or your guitars not worth that. Yes its not a pro job, but if $100 is a lot of money....

Its all relevant, but replacing a nut isn't anything like replacing a fret board, or fret leveling job, or installing fancy pearl inlays and higher level stuff?

And if you screw up your out $10, and then you take it to a pro. I did my first one and it came out fine. It measures fine and tunes up and was fun to learn something, especially after trashing out a guitar due to my ignorant fret sanding!

pre-measure, read some., ask questions and have your little pile of tools all ready. IMO...

buying a new guitar because the nuts broke is extreme isn't it?

good luck

 

[Light]

what overhead... 4 bucks for a bone blank plus an hour (at most)labor

How do you stay in business thinking like that? I've got the building our shop is in, which has a mortgage, property taxes, and utilities. The business has to pay for it's license and insurance. And of course, the billable hours need to cover the cost of paying my employees non-billable hours. My employees need to get paid, of course, and then I need to pay my share of their taxes, their health insurance, their retirement IRAs, etc., etc. It's a business. It costs money.

Oh, and doing it right takes more than an hour. Even for my shop manager, who is the best and fastest repair guy you will EVER see. Not much more to be sure, but more than an hour.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[muttley600]

How do you stay in business thinking like that?
M.K. Gandhi

I think he probably does it in the dark with no heating or water. The workshop rent is free also and he gets his tools from little elves who normally make shoes. Thats just the start. Then there is all the business and personal tax that can be waived because, well just because really. No insurance required obviously and you don't even have to think about future contingency's for price increases because they just don't happen. National Insurance is not required nor is insurance in case of loss of working ability. All employees can take a share of that $50 first as well. Me and the wife and kids will be happy to starve on whats left.

Sometimes I wonder if anyone has a clue what it costs to run even a small workshop.

 

[legionserial]

Still, a typical nickel plated steel round wound of .046" tuned to C on 25" scale is gonna give you about 11 pounds of tension. That's pretty low. Assuming the other strings have around 17-20 pounds of tension on an electric with light gauge strings, that low C is going to sound at least somewhat flabby and there will be a tendency to have notes pull sharp when fretted, just because the fretting force will bend those slack strings much more than the other strings. A .056" string would feel about right at low C if .046" is what you use at low E.

I really don't have that problem. I would actually have expected to get more slackness and a flabbier sound, but I just don't. It may be that I have become accustomed to it, and naturally compensate with a lighter touch,but it's not something I do consciously, and I usualy play pretty hard. It may be that it's just at the point where tuning any lower would cause the aforementioned problem with playing. I've pulled it down to A before and that was pretty bad. As you'd expect.

 

[ofajen]

I really don't have that problem. I would actually have expected to get more slackness and a flabbier sound, but I just don't. It may be that I have become accustomed to it, and naturally compensate with a lighter touch,but it's not something I do consciously, and I usualy play pretty hard. It may be that it's just at the point where tuning any lower would cause the aforementioned problem with playing. I've pulled it down to A before and that was pretty bad. As you'd expect.

Yeah, I think our expectations are lower on electric. Plus tensions are lower in general and we use magnetic pickups on solid bodies, so we don't worry about acoustic tone. I've read that Fripp uses at most a .052" string on electric and he tunes to low C. I still prefer to use at least a .056", but to each his own.

Cheers,

Otto

 

[suprstar]

Ever since I started my "WTF? Alternative tuning" thread I wrote a piece in drop-D out of curiosity, and I realized what I've been missing out on. I wanna try drop-C now, and it just was not possible with my standart 38-gauge low-E. It just wobbles like a fish if you go anywhere that low.

Yeah, drop tunings rox! 38's are really light anyway, my standard E guitar has 10-46's on it. Actually, I think ALL my electrics do, I've pulled off drop C no prob with 46's. A little loose, but that doesnt bother me.. Plus it's nice to be able to bend a string 5+ frets high,

 

[Roguetitan]

How do you stay in business thinking like that? I've got the building our shop is in, which has a mortgage, property taxes, and utilities. The business has to pay for it's license and insurance. And of course, the billable hours need to cover the cost of paying my employees non-billable hours. My employees need to get paid, of course, and then I need to pay my share of their taxes, their health insurance, their retirement IRAs, etc., etc. It's a business. It costs money.

Oh, and doing it right takes more than an hour. Even for my shop manager, who is the best and fastest repair guy you will EVER see. Not much more to be sure, but more than an hour.

Gandhi

like I said before this is suplemental not primairy, I work in my garage,
I don't have employees. I get most of my work from local merchants, I pick up on Mondays and deliver on Friday most of the work primairyily involves electronics upgrades but I get a lot of setup work which involves nut and bridge work as you know a lot of the low end to mid range instruments have these crappy graphite impregnated black plastic nuts which the dealer recomends to the customer to have a custom bone nut made in its place therefore most people don't mind paying the extra fiddy to get a good nut to ensure they are going to have the best possible playing instrument once they get the instrument back.
I am sure the retailer probably jacks up the price so they make something out of the deal but I don't have anything to do with that end of the business transaction, I just do the work and get paid my fee upon delivery.

I would also venture to say that your repair guy don't make 50 bucks per hour if he is an hourly employee.... and if he does.... Soo are you loking for a good luthier? I need a job

aparently your guy is not the fastest if he cannot do a simple nut job in an hour or less
I can remove an existing nut make a new nut from a blank and have it installed in an hour or less and it will be done right.