FX on individual tracks get lost in the mix

[gibsonsgharp]

Recording novice/experiementer here with a mix question. When doing a final mix, I tend to get each track how I want it (EQ/FX) and then bring it into the "final" mix using the fader and pan.

However, as I add successive tracks to the mix, the FX that you hear on the previous individual tracks start to get lost as the new tracks fill in the empty spaces.

For example, reverb on a vocal - a nice subtle reverb on the vocal gets lost/stepped over by a guitar riff even though panned to different "areas" and the guitar track is at a lower fader level (yes really,,,,, a guitar turned down)

When I hear pro recordings, I still hear the reverb on the voice over and above the guitar riff (and the guitar sounds full and at high level)

Generally, when i record vocal reverb I record the vocal "wet" with the reverb I want directly on the vocal track, vs. adding it later in the mixing process.

Any tricks? Am I missing something?

 

[gecko zzed]

The advantage of recording dry is that you can later apply effects in the context of a mix once you've got other tracks recorded.

 

[The Cancers]

Also, what the individual track sounds like alone doesn't matter at all. You're gonna need to start working on doing your eq-ing and effect adding and whatnot in the mix. No one is gonna hear that individual track, they're gonna hear the whole mix, so that's where you've got to get the individual tracks sounding right.

 

[grimtraveller]

Also, what the individual track sounds like alone doesn't matter at all. You're gonna need to start working on doing your eq-ing and effect adding and whatnot in the mix. No one is gonna hear that individual track, they're gonna hear the whole mix, so that's where you've got to get the individual tracks sounding right.

I've made this mistake many times in the past, putting way too much of an effect on because it doesn't seem to translate well when all the other elements are brought into play. So I'd put more on and think, yeah, that's it. I can hear the reverb or whatever....It's a natural mistake to make early on but later when I'd listen to my stuff, it would sound mushy, drowning in effects and I'd feel murderous at my folly !
My thinking on effects has completely changed, especially on the vocals. Now, I use a tiny amount of FX. Just enough for a very slight alteration, unless I'm going for a deliberately obvious effected sound. I keep in mind the entire song and it's sound, not particular elements.

 

[RAMI]

If you're recording the reverb while tracking a mono source, like vocals, your effects are also going to be stuck in mono. Reverb should be a stereo effect (most of the time). This could be why it seems to be getting masked, it's sitting right in the middle with your vocal track instead of coming out in stereo.

 

[mattdee1]

Recording novice/experiementer here with a mix question. When doing a final mix, I tend to get each track how I want it (EQ/FX) and then bring it into the "final" mix using the fader and pan.

However, as I add successive tracks to the mix, the FX that you hear on the previous individual tracks start to get lost as the new tracks fill in the empty spaces.

For example, reverb on a vocal - a nice subtle reverb on the vocal gets lost/stepped over by a guitar riff even though panned to different "areas" and the guitar track is at a lower fader level (yes really,,,,, a guitar turned down)

When I hear pro recordings, I still hear the reverb on the voice over and above the guitar riff (and the guitar sounds full and at high level)

Generally, when i record vocal reverb I record the vocal "wet" with the reverb I want directly on the vocal track, vs. adding it later in the mixing process.

I'm inclined to say you might be looking at this the wrong way. I don't think you should be looking at it like "Ah man, I put all that lovely reverb on the vocals and I can't even hear it in the mix."

For starters, treatments like reverb and delay don't need to be "obvious" to be effective. In fact, often times, they're more effective when they're not obvious.

On the other hand, if you're really looking for an "obvious" effect--a My Morning Jacket style vocal drenched in reverb for example--you're probably better off tracking dry and adding the verb after the fact. Then, it's just a matter of dialing it in until it sounds the way you want it.

 

[Todzilla]

Also, what the individual track sounds like alone doesn't matter at all. You're gonna need to start working on doing your eq-ing and effect adding and whatnot in the mix. No one is gonna hear that individual track, they're gonna hear the whole mix, so that's where you've got to get the individual tracks sounding right.

^THIS.

You shouldn't be assigning any EQ, dynamics or effects outside the context of the overall mix. And lots of effects are best left subtle enough so they're felt more than heard.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

The other thing here you want to keep in mind, aside from simply that 99 times out of 100 you're better recording dry, is you should probably also be thinking about WHY the FX are getting lost in the mix.

Is that vocal reverb getting lost because it's just so subtle, or is most of the decay falling in the same frequency range as the guitar so it's getting lost behind it? Is maybe a longer decay and lower 'verb level just not appropriate given the tempo of the song, even if it sounds great in isolation, because a shorter decay mixed a little higher would cut better? Is that awesome-sounding tape echo on the lead guitar not cutting because it's too quiet, or because it has so little high end that, while it sounds dark and organic ping-ponging back and forth solo'd, it's just not able to poke through the full mix?

The real advantage of adding FX later is, for me, not JUST that you get to adjust levels once you have a big picture to look at, but also because it gives you so much more flexibility in how the FX act. For instance, I'm a total delay junky - I'm almost incapable of mixing a guitar solo without delay on it. Almost without fail, I'll also have an EQ on my delay FX bus cutting out almost all of the low end and much of the lower mids, because in my experience what your ear latches onto for that "stereo delay" sound isn't the bass and lower midrange (which just makes everything muddier without really being too pronounced in the mix) but rather the upper mid/treble frequencies, so by getting rid of the stuff I don't really hear anyway, I can get a clearer, more focused sounding delay that fights with the rest of the mix a hell of a lot less.

 

[Bristol Posse]

Think about listening to a live concert. Do you think about how great the reverb sounds, or do you say wow they sound great overall YEAH!.
Close mic'd stuff is as if everything is front and center, 6 inches or less away from your ears which is not how you listen to real music in a live setting. Adding verb and EQ generally is to make it sound like a more natural performance in a real 3D space as aposed to everything front and center right in your face unless you are going for a specific non real sound.
The best Live venues in the world are generally not well known because they make the vocal really washed out full of reverberation but rather the opposite that they are great at bringing out the sound of the band without a lot of muddy low end waves and verb building up

When you talk to someone across a room you don't conciously notice reverb, there is enough for your brain to make the calculation of distance but if there were a lot more it would sound very odd and you certinly would notice.

Unless you are shooting for a specific "un natural" echo effect you only need enough verb to allow your brain to make the association with distance and that is usually subtle, when you combine that with low and high pass filters to further simulate the effect distance has on sound, and panning to move things around you can get a more 3D effect. But it's difficult to do well and I certainly haven't got it all the way right yet.

Locking in verb at tracking ties you to that particular sound at the outset, you can't really add more, because reverbing reverb sounds wierd and not in a good way usually and it's more or less impossible to get back to a dry track without re tracking the whole thing. Thats why most suggest tracking dry and adding FX later