"Fundamentals of recording"

F

Freak-a-zoid

New member
Wanted to start this thread to help out new PC recorders out there like myself. Forget about mastering, I want this to be a step by step process of the fundamentals.

So lets take a look at step 1(im assuming you have your DAW already )

Drums, the first thing i want to do is record the drums, okay dig, i got the DDR drum machine, Since they have pre-set beats i am unable to give each piece its own track so i have to record the drums on one track, I quess im correct in assuming one would get a better sound on the drums if each piece had its own track, fine can dig that but im stuck at one trak for now, it would take me months to sit there and record each piece to its own seperate track by tapping the pads. So how much difference does it make?

Would you say alot? a little or not much at all?

Okay, so i gotta record the drums on one track, so the next step is to get the correct "input recording" level

All input recordings are always recorded at 0db regardless of the instrument correct? if not, what recording level should one use for the drums?

Step 2 coming up...
 
Yeah, you want to get as close to 0db as possible without clipping,this way you'll have less floor noise. Also, your definetly starting out with one hand tied behind your back by having all your drums on one track. This can be a real headache later in the mix. There are all kinds of affordable software drum machines out there that I would suggest looking into.
 
Does your drum machine have a "Stereo Out" or only Mono?

If it has stereo, I would presume (maybe wrongly) that you can assign different drum parts to either left or right channels...........panning L to R as though you were sitting at a kit would be an improvement to start with, i.e: hi-hat to left, snare middle, kick middle, floor tom to right, etc. This way you are using two tracks as a stereo mix for drums.

Freak, your initial approach to recording needs a lot of common sense, a lot of time to "educate" yourself, your ears and your brain and a lot of trial and error recordings.

You were given a lot of great advice in your other thread........TAKE NOTICE OF IT......... cause it looks as if you are still looking for an easy way. There ain't no such thing.



:cool:
 
Have you considered using midi for your drums?
Perhaps a list of your equipment might help to narrow things down a bit.
 
my setup

Cubase 32
Gina 20 bit
512 Ram
1.1 gig AMD
Wav lab 3
Pod pro Im a guitarist
J-Station <-- for bass amp simulation
Boss DDR
LM-4 <-- bought that a while ago but i still havent firgured it out, sounds great, but how the hell can i use my mouse to click on each pad, im gonna learn the whole triggering thing later, right now i gotta understand the fundamentals

Lets put the whole stereo outputs of the drum machine to the side for now, okay, i recorded a smaple beat of the drum machine on track one, recorded as close to 0db without clipping.. sounds good to me, added a little revrb.. pretty good, could be better im sure but for now it'll work (Im bitting off more than i can chew right now), im an infant barely learning to stand and im already trying to run..

Now step 2, compress the drums? or wait to compress later after all instruments are recorded to hear if compression is needed?:confused:(oh who the hell am i fooling, i couldnt tell if the damn tracks need comprssion or not)

Okay, got my Fender Jazz bass on my lap and am ready to lay a bass track down..

Somebody stop me if theres something i need to do before i record the bass..

:D
 
OK............ some concrete tips to get you started...........

1) Make sure the sound source sounds the way you want it to (ie, don't rely on EQ or effects to make it sound "right" later)...

2) If you don't know if you need compression or not DON'T use it..... ('cos how will you know if you abused it or not!)

3) Always aim for minimal signal path - don't stick unnecessary outboard or other routing in between the sound source and the recorder.

4) There's no such thing as "fix it in the mix" -- well, there is such a thing, but it doesn't work........

5) Use effects during tracking ONLY if they're an integral part of the sound of the track -- even so - it's better to print the "effect" to another track to maintain flexibility later. You won't know the context until you have other tracks around it at mixdown.

6) Experiment your f*cking ass off!


Good luck...

Bruce
 
I suppose I'm way off on a tangent here but here's my two cents.
If you've got midi input/outputs on the drum machine and computer and if cubase handles midi(don't know nuttin bout it) I'd suggest just running the drum machine with midi and wait till the projects done to commit to audio.

I am certainly not a pro but one of my main beliefs is not to commit to effects,sounds or anything else that can be done later in the recording process.

You can undo a midi track,
you can undo an aux send,
you can undo a plugin,
but you can't undo an audio track you can only erase it.
You've got the tools you just need to use them to their fullest.

GOOD LUCK!:)
 
Okay moving right along

Thanks for the input

Step 3, my favorite.. Guitars!

Ive recorded both drums and bass using tracks 1 & 2, very dry and have eq'ed tweaked just a tad..

Now for recording the rythym guitars, cut back on distortion correct?

Record trak 3 (left) then rerecord the same rythym on track 4 (right) to give it a more "fuller" sound correct? or is there something better to try?

I dig the sound im getting at recording on my guitars so not much eq'ing needed.

Recording at 0db's

then next I'll lay the guitar solo..

Any tips on the solo? send it straight between the eyes of the mix?, double up on the solo or not?

Since no vocals needed in this instrumental, once the tracks are laid down should one eq the whole piece using the master panel or is the standard eq'ing done on each indivdual track?

Freak, is Freaking out man! :D
 
joedirt said:
Yeah, you want to get as close to 0db as possible without clipping,this way you'll have less floor noise.
Click to expand...

that's...not really true.

For various reasons..

but, the whole point of 24bit recording (or..16bit, when it was a baby)

is that we *can* record things quieter and still get lots of resolution out of it.

Thats a gift people! Not a burden! I bet when we have 64bit recording, people will still be saying "yes...record as close to 0db as possible....when you get quieter you sound like shit"

Even though you could record at -28db and it'd be better than a current 0db 24bit recording. <sigh>
 
A few things on guitars:

1. Any judgements made regarding how your guitar parts sound should be determined while listening to the drums and bass behind it.. When instruments are combined, certain frequencies get layered and some overridden. So just because a guitar sounds awesome by itself does not necessarily mean it's gonna sound good with the rest of the band.

2. Using EQ to tweak your guitars is fine if you have limited equipment and you are experimenting, but keep in mind that EQ is a much abused device that in more advanced sessions should be avoided during the tracking stage. This is especially important if you are using a separate EQ unit (as opposed to a software version) because the sound of the EQ will taint your guitar sound.. You will definately notice an overabuse of EQ after some time is spent listening to your mixes.

3. Don't skimp on the mids. It's very tempting for guitarists to want to completely eliminate the mids from their initial tracking (usually via EQ or their amp setting). This is a bad idea because there will be times when mids can really fill in the holes on some mixes and it's important that you know how to handle this frequency range. If you cut the mids out of your guitars when tracking, then you won't be able to get them back if you need them when mixing. It's always a good idea to keep all the frequencies of an instrument in its initial track.

Cy
 
Thats a great point Cyrokk

Thats a great point about the mids, 10 years ago my mesa boogie i use to pretty much eliminate my mids to get a much warmer or "fatter" sound, I'll definately record them on this go and cut them back later if needed..

Lat step and I think we can wrap this up, thanks to all that lended a hand.. I really appreciate your help, I'll ceratanily pass down what i learned over the last few days down to the next person that is just getting started

Lets say all the track are layed.. lets talk about effects for a second.

We all know Reverb and drums are like french fries and ketchup.. gotta have it, unles of course ya go to McDonalds. .:)

at this point, each instrument should be eq'd seperately correct?(if needed)

as opposed to the whole mix?


Thanks again
 
Hey Freak - I thought from your other thread about the same subject that you were listening to all the sage advice you were given, but you're still trying to skip 90% of the necessary steps. You can't really say "let's just skip all the drum discussions... I'll put some 'verb on my mono drum track and it'll sound great."

It won't. I can foretell that in three days your post will be, "I did what you guys said and it doesn't sound right. Why?"

The reason is that you're really not following anyone's advice. Slow down some, man. You'll get it. It's just way damn harder than you think, unless all you want is a really quick demo to show your mom.

There are a lot of guys here in my boat. I've been playing music since I was three years old, I have a bachelor's degree in Sound Recording Technology (from a MUSIC school, not a tech school), I've owned and operated a studio for almost ten years, and I've played several instruments in all kinds of bands, orchestras, and small groups for most of my life...

AND I'M STILL LEARNING ALL THE TIME! This is how it goes.

Slow down, listen, and read. Don't take shortcuts. You'll get there.

I'm not trying to slam you - I'm just trying to give you the best chance to like what you're doing five years from now.

Ken Rutkowski
Outer Limit Recording Studio
 
Key Kendog

Hey, no harm taken, slam all you want, its the best way to learn, i did read (very closely) to my other thread the inputs.

But telling someone to slow down f*ck around and learn is like giving someone thats never played golf a golf club and telling them to go out and hit the balls you'll learn.. well. no he wont if he doesnt understnad the fundamentals and the first step like, how to grip the club.

some said record as high as you can without clipping, other say not so, so who's advice to take?

Again, i was referring to a simple guy with a DAW in his room with Cubase, Drum machine and a pod pro and a Korg, giving advice about room size, and how one strums a guitar im sure makes a world of difference in how the sound comes out in a studio.This is direct recording where room size and mic placements are irrelevant.

Your right, i suppose i could just learn by error, but wouldnt the best way to learn by error is to first learn the foundation of recording, like level peaks, whether drums pieces for best results should be recorded on seperate traks, whether drums should be recorded dry, the effects added later like reverb or should reverb be added during recording of drums, cutting back on distortion on guitars, stuff like that is what im looking for.

Some say get the guitar to sound as you want them before recording, others say no.

Again, telling a newbie to just wing it isnt very helpful, advice like Cyrokk and his mids suggestion makes sense, and thats the type of advice us newbies are looking for.

It may sound as though im trying to make something difficult easy, not really, im trying to understand the basic simple stuff that most follow in recording direct on a DAW.

I really appreciate all who helped, i did gain some good advice, however, the record as high as you can without clipping seems to be a conflict between recorders.

Ist it record as high as you can without clipping or just record a 0db?

For me, it cant be a "listener's choice" much like eq'ing can be, maybe im wrong, but that seems to be a subject that has to be one way or the other.

Thanks again for all who help

Freak out! :D
 
On the contrary, my good man - I wasn't saying that you should go off and practice on your own at all... I was merely saying that you should slow down, listen to those who would give advice, and take it a step at a time.

You're smart to ask for advice. The problem is that there are rules, but they're not concrete enough to apply to every situation ( like levels varying from analog to digital). That's why so many of us have suggested trial-and-error as an important part of the process.

In general, yes, record as high as you safely can without hitting digital zero (clipping), get the sounds as good as you possibly can with proper instruments, proper playing, and good mic technique, and leave instruments on separate tracks as much as possible so that you can tweak one sound without affecting others.

The best way to get great advice on these forums is to do your research (as it seems you have been), play around with your setup, and then ask more specific questions. That's where people here can shine and give you great answers. If you ask (and I'm exaggerating here) "How do I record?" the real answer is about a million paragraphs long, so we have to generalize, which doesn't help you as much as you'd like.

We're all here to support each other, so ask away, but try to be more specific.

One last thing. Hands-on experientation is the best way to to learn. That's why everyone here gives basic guidelines - so you can take those kernels of info and apply them to your own needs.

Happy recording!

Ken Rutkowski
Outer Limit Recording Studio
 
Thanks again

lesson learned and your suggestion well taken, I'll be more specific in the future. :)

By the way, while i got you on the horn..

Being a studio guy, perhaps you can answer this.

Something ive always wanted to know.

recording software like Cubase, Cakewalk, Pro Tools etc are all just interfaces correct?

Im assuming its ones eqiupment that gets the best results.

Other than some of the extra bells and whistles that some recording programs have over others, like better plug-ins etc,it does it really matter what software you use?

In other words I would basically get the same sound using any other program as i do with Cubase? Its the hardware im assuming that makes the difference...

Using my Gina 20 bit card will result in the same quality with Cubase vs any other program right?

So going out and investing in Pro-tools thinking it may improve my sound quality is tossing $$ out the window?
 
"Ist it record as high as you can without clipping or just record a 0db?

For me, it cant be a "listener's choice" much like eq'ing can be, maybe im wrong, but that seems to be a subject that has to be one way or the other. "

Ok, for starters - > 0db = clipping.

When you go past 0db in digital, that is when the clipping comes.

So, if you record everything at -1db, then you will never clip, and all of your tracks will be as loud as possible.

Is that a good thing? Well...depends on who you ask. I have done a lot of thinking/discussing on this, and come to the conclusion that no, absolutely not the best way to do things.

The two basic reasons for this are:

1.) You run the risk of killing true dynamic range in your recordings.

2.) Digital signal processing (yes, that means volume adjustments too) screws with your sound. When you have good ADDA in your system, you get a nice pure digital sound modeled after an analog wave. Then, you start reintterpreting that wave digitally, over and over again, level changes, effects, what not - and you keep getting worse and worse. This problem is bigger if you don't have that great of processing gear.and esp. if you don't have a flawless preamp/adda etc. to start with.

So, the moral is - if you know you want a quieter drum sound in the mix...why not just record it close to where you want it level wise....and save yourself some DSP in mixing.

This is also where 24bit recording comes in, as I mentioned. Now we can record at say -8db, and get the same quality as we can at 0db with 16bit. Of course some people will always say "fix it in the mix" - but that isn't the case.

Esp when you seem to be doing rock type music.

When recording, try to imagine that you are recording the band live...and visualize how everything is going to sound together before you hit the record button.

Having the drummer hit the snare while you get a compressor and preamp setup so that the snare is recording right at 0db...just so you can turn it down later..well, thats just crap ;)
 
I'd record hot as possible if I had ProTools HD...or, a neve digital mixing console...or, was mixing on a nice analog console..or.whatever.

But, I can't stomach the thought of using anymore DSP than I have to...knowing that my processing isn't top notch.
 
Hey Freak - It's definitely not just an interface difference with a few bells and whistles. You have a good converter system, so you'll be able to use the programs to their best advantage. Different programs handle the audio differently, and the bells and whistles that you talk about are really more like major features.

If you're just looking for good basic sound, they'll all do, but if you're looking to get professional results, you have to go for the big boys. I'm a staunch Samplitude advocate, but I haven't used all the others out there. Cubase, to me, handles MIDI well, but isn't well suited for audio at all. Admittedly, Samplitude doesn't have much in the way of MIDI, so I use Samplitude for audio synced with Cubase VST32 for MIDI.

Also, the quality of the plug-ins makes a much bigger difference than you might think. A grainy or tinny sounding reverb will kill a good mix pretty quickly, depending, of course, on how much it's used. You'll see for yourself as soon as you start trying demos of the different fx available. Try www.analogx.com for a ton to try and some to keep.

And I'm still sticking with recording as hot as possible without going red. It always makes sense for best s/n ratio. That way, anytime you turn something quieter you're also turning down any noise inherent in any part of the system.

Ken Rutkowski
Outer Limit Recording Studio
 
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