FRUSTRATED...please don't let me quit...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Wikked Wood
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Wikked Wood

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Please bear with this long post...and I look for answers from all, beginners and experts, philisophical or not...
I used to be a musician that worried only about the music I was creating. And then I checked out a couple of studios and got bitten by that damned recording bug. Now I always check out footage of pro bands in the studio (Metallica, Van Halen, Dream Theater...even Winger if they show it!!!). I got together what I feel is a decent recording medium (AKAI DSP 12) and I began recording...Unbelievably I got a great drum sound with just an Alesis SR-16 and some 'verb, and even a pretty darned good bass sound with a $150 Squire bass into an Alesis NanoCompressor. Of course, a fair amount of appropriate EQ tweeking brought out these good flavors (I tend to mix down a rhythm section to play the guitars over cuz I like the sound). And since I live with someone elses baby in the house, I do all of my listening with AKG headphones. The horror occurs when I try to get my $3000 guitar rig to sound good on "tape". I don't get it, I love the tone I get on its own but it NEVER EVER EVER goes down right. I use the direct recording outs on the Tri-Axis, hoping that it will at least do a fair job emulating a mic'ed cab. But no matter how much EQ, pan placement, and reverb I work with, the frequencies clash REALLY bad. I can't get the pleasing sound I want with all that expensive gear. I listen to a CD through the AKAI and the same headphones, and it is at least listenable (of course, it's days of mixing on pro stuff and mastering..but it's NIGHT and DAY difference, not very subtle) So many times I thought "this is as good as it gets? Well, I may as well sell gallons of blood and go into a real studio..." And yet you guys claim to have good stuff with the same gear I do, basically. What am I missing??? I've read it all, seen it all, just haven't done it all. How steep is the learning curve. I'm a friggin' Lockheed Martin Rocket Scientist (for real!!!) Help...don't let me give up on myself!!! Is there a light at the end of the sonic tunnel? Take Care, all, and Keep Breathing...DAVE

[This message has been edited by Wikked Wood (edited 11-18-1999).]
 
Hello,
I'm a friggin' Lockheed Martin Rocket Scientist too! (well actually a software engineer, M&DS Valley Forge). As for your problem with recording loud, distorted guitars, I can't offer much advice, as I play quiet, gentle acoustic guitar music :-)
But, getting a good acoustic sound has been difficult for me as well and I just kept at it!
Don't give up!
Later - Evan
 
I understand how you feel about wanting to record live instruments when you can't. I started my studio in an apartment... need i say more. Well I bought a Roland GP-100 several years ago and was very please with the results for recording direct. I have had the oportunity to hear a Pod at a local music store, and I was impressed how good it sounded for the money. I have not bought one yet, but would like to for variety.

I guess what I am getting at is that you have to get the right tool to do the right job. Your current guitar rig may sound great live and even mic'ed, but for going direct you may have to use something else to get the sounds that you are looking for.
 
Well, I'm no friggin' Lockheed Martin rocket scientist, but I built a model of an SR-71 once. Does that count for something?
Anyway, I say give the POD a try. I think that little thing is fantastic! I am about ready to rid myself of all of the rack gear I have accumululated over the years (guitar processors) because the POD does a better job.
Good luck! Don't give up!
Brad

[This message has been edited by Brad (edited 11-18-1999).]
 
Thanks for the help so far...I've also heard a Sonic Maximizer or a tube pre-amp may help fatten up the sound a little. I'm even doing the stereo guitar trick...whereby I record one guitar through a stereo processor, one side with delay and the other side detuned slightly. Then in mixdown I pan them nearly hard left and right (leaving a little room on the outside for lead guitar and snare reverb). The overall level and "depth" is not the problem. Just the tone is butchering my mix. The only way I am happy with the tone is if I boost 4-5 K, and then my tom-tom and snare pop clarity go bye-bye. I'll never quit, folks, I'm with you in that. I'll just keep experimenting!!! Thanks again...DAVE P.S. All of you who aren't friggin' Lockheed Martin Rocket Scientists...rejoice. As GORDONE will attest, our stock is plummetting and we're losing contracts left and right. I'm going back to school!

[This message has been edited by Wikked Wood (edited 11-18-1999).]
 
I recently got a Pod and I used it on my most recent tune, but I mixed the signal from the Pod with the signal from my original setup... It worked out pretty well cause the Pod was picking up tonal characteristics that my rig was missing and vice versa...
I used 3 mics on my cabinet... 1 SM57 close to the cone... 1 AKGC1000 at about 3 feet and another C1000 at about 6 feet. Mix the signals from these 3 mic and youre gonna get some tone... Mix that with the Pod signal and you get even more...

Then again my "tone" is pretty harsh...
S8-N
 
I just spent the last 2 hours screwing around with my guitar amp trying to eliminate a hum... What a waste of time. I replaced all the tubes, patch cords, no luck... Decided to just record it with the noise, which is only audible for a second. Anyway, S8-N brought up the point I was going to. How are you micing your cabinet? I also tend to use at least 2 mic's on it. One close and one a bit further away (thanks Page). This tends to give you at least - some tonal options when mixing.

---

well.. guess I should have read the post. Hard to capture the sound of anything direct. Especially a guitar amp. Guess you should buy a Pod, there all the rage, and it may just work for you.


[This message has been edited by Emeric (edited 11-18-1999).]
 
POD...POD...POD...POD... Get the picture? It will solve all your problems and you won't get a hernia lugging it around. I bought mine 9 months ago and now I could'nt do without it... it's THAT good!
 
Ummmm...thanks for the advice, guys, but what have you heard about the POD from Line 6? Is it any good?
(Geesh, I know what I'm asking Santa for this year!).
When I get my own place, I'm going to have to start micing the cab. But I'll still mix in a POD for more options. But answer me this, aside from just using a POD, what else can I do to compliment the direct outs of the Boogie Tri-Axis. I serious have heard that those direct recording outs give tone, I just haven't found the good stuff yet (maybe my standards are just too high for my budget...)
 
WW

If you are going direct, it's the only way to go.

The POD, that is.

dmc

[This message has been edited by dmcsilva (edited 11-19-1999).]
 
Get the POD and you'll never need to mic another cabinet ever again. All the tones you could ever dream of are there in this amazing little unit. Marshall, Mesa Boogie, Fender Twin, etc. etc. etc... A PERFECT sound reproduction of just about every great guitar amp there ever was, without the buzz or hiss, and without farting around for 2 hours trying to get good mic placement. The POD unit also has great built~in effects and all the adjustments of a regular guitar amp, so you can tweak it precisely the way you want it. It's a steal for $300 bucks.
 
i have a POD...problem is..i dunno how to play guitar.. im learning though.. besides using the pod for guitar , its fun running vocals through the different amp models..makes for some good vocal effects when mixed with the " real " vocals..

- eddie -
 
I am a proponent of the POD. It has served me well (now that my recording set up is digital) But now that I think back, the way I used to do things way back in the mid-80's, I can see why so many people still want to mic a cabinet.
The sound was incredible, even when we old folk were recording on an old 4-trk cassete machine. But times have changed and I see the POD as the answer for those who want that same warm sound while recording music in the digital age. You can go direct, avoiding the sensitive neighbors, and you can get awesome sound.
Try it!

Brad
 
Stupid question of the day.....

How does your guitar rig sound when you record it with out any of the bass and drums along side? It may (or may not) make a difference, you never know...

One thing I've heard from a few sources is that a good track from a recording rarely sounds good on it's own (EQ wise and whatnot), and a track that sounds good on it's own frequently sounds horrible mixed with the rest of the recording. But then, I don't speak from experience! :)

Well, good luck in any case!

William Underwood
 
William:

What you said is my experience exactly. Great tone on it's own does not necessarily translate as well when mixed. Two things I use every time I mix guitar tracks: real time software parametric eq adjustments-easy to do in Vegas, and Cakewalk FX2 AmpSim.

The CW AmpSim is awesome. I use it in real time as well to fine tune the guitar sound. You can select different cabinets, adjust the presence, off axis coloration, brightness, drive, eq, volume, even add tremolo.

I use it on distorted tracks and acoustics, rarely using much if any of the drive control. I primarily use it for the other parameters. It really adds fullness to the sound and does wonders on acoustics.

dmc
 
Don't give up. I get a pretty convincing amped sound using a Tech21 Tri O.D. and ust a pinch of one of the hall presets on my Alesis Nanoverb. Everything was ust okay with my Strat, but after I bought a G&L Legacy Special with dual blade humbuckers, things really started happening. I think the humbucking signal is more suited to in line recording. The Nanoverb makes everything sound real; like a room mic on a big stack.

Check it out. If all else fails, send the family to Chuck E. Cheese and rock out...
 
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