frequency response curve of commercial home stereo equipment

[Hi_Flyer]

yeah he set his own controls. I wouldn't have felt too comfortable twisting knobs on his amp...

hell, most of these tracks were recorded live to a tascam 688, without any kind of monitoring other than headphones, so monitoring and mic placement was kind of guesswork.

 

[HangDawg]

yeah he set his own controls. I wouldn't have felt too comfortable twisting knobs on his amp...

hell, most of these tracks were recorded live to a tascam 688, without any kind of monitoring other than headphones, so monitoring and mic placement was kind of guesswork.

Well, you better get over the feeling uncomfortable about it. Most guitar players don't know what a good guitar sound is let alone how to find one on a solid state marshall amp.

The guitar tone is bad, real bad. I don't think there is any amount of "Tweaking" that is going to get it sounding any thing other than a hollow mess. If re-tracking the guitars is not an option I think you're hosed.

 

[Hi_Flyer]

could the problem be that I used two mics on the cab? maybe phasey stuff is going on that is making it sound hollow?

re-tracking is an option though.

 

[sushi-mon]

could the problem be that I used two mics on the cab? maybe phasey stuff is going on that is making it sound hollow?

re-tracking is an option though.

Line up the tracks and see if you have phase issues, then nudge the delayed track to hear the difference.

 

[HangDawg]

could the problem be that I used two mics on the cab? maybe phasey stuff is going on that is making it sound hollow?

re-tracking is an option though.

Definately a possibility. If you can't get 1 mic to sound good, 2 isn't going to help and more than likely make it worse. In either case, you need to start with a good sound. Like I said, what bonehead thinks is good is probably not going to record well. The first 2 things that you always need to remember when trying to get a nice heavy crunchy guitar sound are.

#1 Turn down the fucking gain.

Douchebag is going to insist that it sounds like shit but you need to ensure him that if he wants unholy sounding guitar tracks, he must trust you. In fact, the best thing to do is keep him away from the amp and in the control room. What it sounds like in the room has very little to do with what will come out on tape.


#2 Turn up the mids.

In order for this type of stuff to come out well, you need more mids than are commonly used in a live situation. Guitars are afterall pretty well based in the midrange but what do most idiots do? Scoop all the mids out and crank the lows and the highs. You will need those mids to get the needed articulation in this type of song.

 

[HangDawg]

Line up the tracks and see if you have phase issues, then nudge the delayed track to hear the difference.

I really believe he is going to have to start over. I'd like to hear 1 of the guitar tracks soloed to any of those songs. What I expect to find is a crappy mid scooped over gained fizzy mess.

 

[Ethan Winer]

> does anybody know what frequencies are usually boosted in home or car stereo stereo equipment? Is there a curve that is sort of "typical" in mid to low priced home stereo gear?? <

The goal is always flat response, and aside from gear that has a built-in EQ, there should be no intentional deviations from flat. Especially for electronics, versus microphones and speakers that sometimes add an intentional "presence boost."

> my mixes is that they seem to sound muddy on home stereo equipment <

As HangDawg explained, this is almost always a function of the room you're mixing in.

> the same mix will sound fine on the monitors and muddy on the stereo in the same room. What does that mean?? <

Assuming both sets of speakers are 100 percent accurate (yeah, right), it means the room is skewing the low frequency response differently because the speakers are in different places.

--Ethan

 

[sushi-mon]

the distorted can't tell what the hell is going on mess though.

Funny, but that seems to be the exact point of this music...

 

[HangDawg]

Assuming both sets of speakers are 100 percent accurate (yeah, right), it means the room is skewing the low frequency response differently because the speakers are in different places.

--Ethan

I moved my monitors recently (Event studio precision 8's). I moved them away from the front wall about another 6 inches and down about the same(they were titled down). The bass response is completely different. Better actually. Still need more bass trapping and I have quite a bit as it is.

 

[HangDawg]

Funny, but that seems to be the exact point of this music...

But it doesn't have to be such a mess. There's distortion from over limiting going on here. And, just plain bad guitar tone.

 

[sushi-mon]

I really believe he is going to have to start over. I'd like to hear 1 of the guitar tracks soloed to any of those songs. What I expect to find is a crappy mid scooped over gained fizzy mess.

Yeah, kinda why I was hoping to get some tracks to hear what the deal is. I mean, I heard the guitar screaming from 125up to 8k. And, I imagine getting rid of the lows would help him clear up too much of the mush on the lower end which was most of his initial point.

I am no expert on this style of music, but it seems the point of it is to be objectionable. This band wants it to sound like they do live, and it seems like it is pretty close.

I figure if this engineer starts talking about articulation, and clarity, etc. He might get a guitar over the head and some cymbal stands up the a$$

 

[Hi_Flyer]

#1 Turn down the fucking gain.

Douchebag is going to insist that it sounds like shit but you need to ensure him that if he wants unholy sounding guitar tracks, he must trust you. In fact, the best thing to do is keep him away from the amp and in the control room. What it sounds like in the room has very little to do with what will come out on tape.

control room?!?! he was recording his guitar in my kitchen!

yeah the guitar on the right is extremely fizzy. bad mic placement. way too close to the center of the cone. like i said, I tried to EQ it out... it was also recorded to cassette tape. As a matter of fact, I was thinking about having him re-track this guitar... I have a feeling that one of the tracks on the left side will be usable though. If I can, i will post a clip when I get a chance...

I don't think the tone in the amp is all that bad, considering its a solid-state amp. Definitely a bit fizzy though...

As far as phase issue in the two tracks... I checked the tracks and the peaks and troughs line up, but I know that doesn't guarantee that my placement was dead-on.

 

[sushi-mon]

I moved my monitors recently (Event studio precision 8's). I moved them away from the front wall about another 6 inches and down about the same(they were titled down). The bass response is completely different. Better actually. Still need more bass trapping and I have quite a bit as it is.

Nice monitors. I have the Event TR8s (Events seem like they make good stuff). I have some bass build up going on in one of the corners, that I plan to address. Annoying 75 hz and some 125hz stuff. However, my mixes do seem to translate well into the shelf stereo and my car and my computer desk, so I am not sure how bad it is affecting my mixes. Plus I mix at low volumes, 75-80 db rms, so I might not be having too many problems.

But both of these are front ported, so I beleive having them against the walls or in corners is not nearly as bad as rear ported speakers.

I have mine about 4 inches from the wall and 10 inches on the other corner (angled in of course). I have them pointed up 4 degrees using the Auralex pads backwards.

 

[HangDawg]

Yeah, kinda why I was hoping to get some tracks to hear what the deal is. I mean, I heard the guitar screaming from 125up to 8k. And, I imagine getting rid of the lows would help him clear up too much of the mush on the lower end which was most of his initial point.

I am no expert on this style of music, but it seems the point of it is to be objectionable. This band wants it to sound like they do live, and it seems like it is pretty close.

I figure if this engineer starts talking about articulation, and clarity, etc. He might get a guitar over the head and some cymbal stands up the a$$

Well then if this is what the guitar player wants it to sound like, then job done everyone is happy. But I can't imagine any guitar player thinking that sounds good regardless of the type of music. It's completely the opposite of a heavy thick guitar. It's weak and flabby.

 

[sushi-mon]

control room?!?! he was recording his guitar in my kitchen!

yeah the guitar on the right is extremely fizzy. bad mic placement. way too close to the center of the cone. like i said, I tried to EQ it out... it was also recorded to cassette tape. As a matter of fact, I was thinking about having him re-track this guitar... I have a feeling that one of the tracks on the left side will be usable though. If I can, i will post a clip when I get a chance...

I don't think the tone in the amp is all that bad, considering its a solid-state amp. Definitely a bit fizzy though...

As far as phase issue in the two tracks... I checked the tracks and the peaks and troughs line up, but I know that doesn't guarantee that my placement was dead-on.

Sounds like the way you recorded things, is the way they should have been done for this style of music IMO

At least you know the phases are not cancelling each other and thining things out.

Heck, fuzz and crack and weird placement. That is part of what made the guitar track on the Kinks song "All Day and All of the Night." stand out. Rumour has it that it was recorded using a blown speaker.

 

[HangDawg]

I'd retrack. Get the guitar player in a different room than the amp is in. Have him play and tell him you need to go adjust the mic placement. While in there, check the amp. I'd set bass and highs about 9 oclock and mids at 12. Turn the gain on the channel to about half. Take whatever mic you are using (just 1) and jam it up on the grille about 2-3 inches in from the outer edge and angle it in about 45 degrees. There's your starting point. Go back where wanker is and listen on the monitors and see what you got. A good way to tell if there are going to be low end problems is have him play some open chords, if they sound muddy, you are going to have a real problem when the palm muted stuff kicks in. Move the mic, ever so slightly towards the center of the speaker. Go check. Rinse and repeat. Now have him do so heavy palm muted shit. Is it to thin and twangy. Reduce the angle a bit or move the mic towards the edge some. Only after much movement of the mic, should you dick with amp settings.

Believe me, once you get it where he digs the sound coming out of the monitors, just for shits and giggles let him hear the amp in the room. It's usually a look of shock and horror.

 

[HangDawg]

Sounds like the way you recorded things, is the way they should have been done for this style of music IMO

What the hell is that supposed to mean Bad recording does not fit any style of music

At least you know the phases are not cancelling each other and thining things out.

Sorry, can't be known by looking at two different guitar tracks.

 

[sushi-mon]

What the hell is that supposed to mean Bad recording does not fit any style of music



Sorry, can't be known by looking at two different guitar tracks.

It all depends on the level of the band and what they are trying to get. If the band is happy and this guy is getting paid fine.

You get the guitar track fixed, then he needs to fix the drums, then the vocals, then the bass guitar, etc. If this bands point is to get a 3 song demo so they can put it on their website and get a couple of gigs, these recordings are there. If they are trying to get "known" for their studio prowess, and this engineer wants to be known as the catsa$$ of death metal engineers, then yes, they need work.

Do you think this band really CARES so darn much about the sonic quality ? Seems like to me, they would rather brag about recording in some guy's kitchen, and flying in a cassette taped performance, having something they can blare in the car that is totally awash with guitar, and they did it all for the price of a keg of beer...

I believe he had two mics on the same cabinet and was talking about phase issues between them which is what I was talking about. Two different tracks would be a different story about phase, I don't think there would be much you could do about that, unless the performance and hence the waveforms were similar.

 

[Hi_Flyer]

>
The goal is always flat response, and aside from gear that has a built-in EQ, there should be no intentional deviations from flat. Especially for electronics, versus microphones and speakers that sometimes add an intentional "presence boost."

really?!? I was under the impression that home stereo equipment is often hyped in the lows and the highs?? No truth to this at all?

 

[HangDawg]

Do you think this band really CARES so darn much about the sonic quality ? Seems like to me, they would rather brag about recording in some guy's kitchen

You could be right I guess. I've just never had anybody come in and say, "Hey buddy how bout you make us sound like shit m'kay".