Frequency Newb Here!

[ActionFletch]

Hey guys /gals... (checked the FAQs, but can`t find a straight answer, hope this Q is not out of place)

Been enjoying using my new basic (cheap) home studio set-up a lot in recent weeks.

However an annoying thingy has struck me - BAD acoustic guitar "boom"... i.e. very bassy, not pleasant on the low strings.
I used M-Audio BX5a monitors and things sound warm and pleasant but then after burning a CD and playing on my Ford Car Stereo, the Bass MUST be turned ALL the way down!!

Pondering this odd problem, i`ve narrowed the issue down to my GUITAR!!! It has heavier guage strings than i used to use 6mnths ago, and consequently to keep it playable i`ve tuned it down a whole step (tone).
I`m thinking this standard D tuning is freaking out the mix? So i`ve compensated by EQ ing between 100Hz and 220z and it has helped enormously. (For nerds... 440 Hz for A on the G-string, so drop D must be somewhere in between the above range?)

So i`m happy now BUT.... why did my monitors not display this problem....! Arrrrgghhhh! Everything sounded beaut on my monitors, expensive Hi-Fi stereo and inexpensive ipod headphones, but the car stereo Sucked! Badly!
Has anyone experience in this? Has drop D always been an issue Or is it a case of dodgy car stereo systems?

Example of "boomy" mix which i have now fixed since posting video...
YouTube - No Wonder He`s Confused (Knopfler Cover)

 

[snow lizard]

Could be a number of things but car systems are usually great as a reality check.

If your mixing room isn't treated with bass traps you might have some problems with the low end frequencies canceling each other and not painting an accurate picture. Also depends on how low your monitors extend.

How was the guitar recorded? eg. what mic and where did you put it?

 

[ActionFletch]

My room is atrocious, but can`t fix that because its open and part of the house (i.e. study area with adjoining bedrooms, not enclosed). I appreciate conditions are far from ideal.

The mic was a Rode M1 dynamic and pointed straight at the sound hole, is this bad? The guitar, small bodied, dreadnought, standard tuning BUT in D! DGCFAD.
The bad boom is when striking the two low strings.

Thanks for your interest and help!

 

[snow lizard]

The sound hole is notorious for making acoustic sound boomy.

One of the most popular positions for acoustic is around the 12th fret. You need to experiment a bit with placement to find the sweet spot, but you can play around with aiming straight at the 12th fret or angling the mic towards the body of the guitar from around the 12th fret. Also, how close the mic is to the guitar will adjust the mic's proximity effect - artificial bass generated from how close the mic is to the source. With that mic I might play around with 6 inches to a foot away to see how it affects it. Playing and experimenting with the mic position is your most effective tone control.

Another place to look is from around the end of the body of the guitar looking at the bridge. It's a different sound.

Yet another technique people like sometimes is over your right shoulder around the height of your ear looking down at the guitar. It makes the sound come out more like what you hear when you're playing.

Aimed at the sound hole can work if the mic is a few feet away from the guitar but it really helps to have a good sounding room. Condenser mics are also pretty good at reaching a sound source from farther away, but you can experiment with all of this stuff with your dynamic.

Hope it helps, good luck.

 

[Armistice]

The mic was a Rode M1 dynamic and pointed straight at the sound hole, is this bad?

You won't find many people miking acoustic guitars who point a mic AT the sound hole for the exact reason you're describing.

Firstly - what sort of guitar is it? What's a small bodied dreadnaught? How far is the mic from the guitar?

Secondly - pop over the the recording and/or guitar forums... one of them has a "Recording Acoustic Guitars 101" sticky. Read it.

Thirdly - experiment - do a controlled test - make sure your guitar is as far away from walls as you can get, and at an angle (a) point your mike at the bridge at whatever distance you "normally" have it from the guitar - play something. (b) Move the mic so it's pointnig at the sound hole, play the same something, then repeat at the (c) join between neck and body, (d) at the 12th fret, (e) at the 7th fret (f) and at the 5th fret. Then, repeat the exercise with the mic further away - (I have no idea what distance you're using, but for the second exercise make it at least 12 inches if finger picking, 18 if strumming).

You'll thus assemble 12 different sound samples of the same piece of playing. You can do this all in half an hour. Listen carefully and you'll learn a lot and you'll find a direction to head in to refine your recorded sound.

Report back and we can go from there...

 

[ActionFletch]

Thank you both for all this advice, I'll look at that sticky and experiment! Then hopefully I won't have to go for a drive every time I mix down!

Great forum!

 

[snow lizard]

Actually going for a drive when you mix down is an excellent idea. Car systems have some serious flaws going on and once you can get a mix to sound good in there hopefully it will sound good everywhere else too. It's not a replacement for the monitors or the nice system, but it can be revealing.

 

[moresound]

Actually going for a drive when you mix down is an excellent idea. Car systems have some serious flaws going on and once you can get a mix to sound good in there hopefully it will sound good everywhere else too. It's not a replacement for the monitors or the nice system, but it can be revealing.

Yes what Snow said is true but after a few months you may become aware of the idiosyncratic of your monitoring area and mix accordingly then you'll find that fewer rides will be necessary.

 

[Armistice]

Yes what Snow said is true but after a few months you may become aware of the idiosyncratic of your monitoring area and mix accordingly then you'll find that fewer rides will be necessary.

So, is that when I should uninstall the monitors I have in my car? Sooo confused...

Good to see you've chekced in for the day moresound... thought there may have been a tragic turkey OD...

 

[moresound]

Nope no Tryptophan in me I decided not to eat turkey today.
There was turkey, lamb, ham, rabbit, and veggie .... I had rabbit.

You could see the ones that did eat turkey though dropping like flies! Having the wood stove blaring didn't help much either.

 

[snow lizard]

So, is that when I should uninstall the monitors I have in my car? Sooo confused...

Not necessarily, but the process here is called learning your monitors. It can take a while.

It might also be handy to invest in a set of Auratones or Avantones or Horrortones or whatever for your mix room. Note that high profile control rooms usually have near field monitors, soffit mount monitors (far field) and fairly big stereo type speakers (mid field)... They all have a purpose. Everything sounds good on midfields and the soffits are mostly for show. Still, they can probably paint a reference idea of what the low end is doing at higher volumes. The meat and potatoes mix work is usually done mostly on nearfields. You might also see (or used to in the old days...) an MCI 2 inch machine or something with a built in 5 inch speaker. This speaker arrangement sounds like shit but it has the advantage of not having a crossover and it can give you an idea of what your mix might sound like on clock radios, car systems, 3 dollar computer speakers, cheap AM radio... the "special needs" group let's say. Not having a crossover makes the speakers very revealing in the midrange and it's a problem that's hard to solve with any type of 2 or 3 way speaker. Anything with a crossover is going to have a hole in the sound at the crossover point.

Until then there's always the car...

 

[moresound]

I have a cheap little FM transmitter that can be purchased from the net. That I plug into the headphone distro and can go to any vehicle out side and tune it in on the radio (kinda cool) In fact you don't even have to bounce it down if you don't want to just listen to your songs on the radio I guess one could also talk on the talk back mic like a radio DJ and the whole town might think you have a number one hit with a bullet!!!

 

[TripleM]

Yes what Snow said is true but after a few months you may become aware of the idiosyncratic of your monitoring area and mix accordingly then you'll find that fewer rides will be necessary.

To add a little to what moresound said.... Find pro mixes that have acoustic guitars that you like and listen to them ON YOUR MONITORING SYSTEM. Listen to them back-to-back against your mixes and see if you can spot differences. It can help you learn your monitoring system.

 

[diggy_dude]

Nope no Tryptophan in me I decided not to eat turkey today.
There was turkey, lamb, ham, rabbit, and veggie .... I had rabbit.

You could see the ones that did eat turkey though dropping like flies! Having the wood stove blaring didn't help much either.

I slept most of the day and didn't have a bite of turkey. It's funny how sometimes you don't realize how tired you are until you stop and sit for a minute.

 

[ActionFletch]

To add a little to what moresound said.... Find pro mixes that have acoustic guitars that you like and listen to them ON YOUR MONITORING SYSTEM. Listen to them back-to-back against your mixes and see if you can spot differences. It can help you learn your monitoring system.

Thanks, that sounds practical and easy!

 

[moresound]

I slept most of the day and didn't have a bite of turkey. It's funny how sometimes you don't realize how tired you are until you stop and sit for a minute.

What was going on with you Diggy? Two or three days in a row with very little sleep?