"Fractal City"

Have you ever played in a band? Do you see, and listen to, live music?
How did you come to write this tune?

Here's the thing....setting aside the recording:

The tune lacks organization, interest, and harmonic cohesiveness..there are some fish in the chords here and there. What I'm hearing is someone trying to make music who hasn't experienced making music in the 'lab'..or garage...with other players...learning what does, and doesn't work.

I think you have to keep recording; but you need to build your mind...listen and study good music...get some experience performing and learning how to organize and arrange music live. Acquire a 'reference library'.

The recording doesn't sound that great....but that comes with trying and moving forward.

The musical work, also, should be something worth the effort of spending all that time and energy of recording on. You need to build experience with the product before you wrap it in a fancy package and expect wonders.

The #1 place to do that is in the garage or basement...working things out with a band....giging a bit...wherever. Spend time hashing out some covers that everybody loves to play: walk in the shoes of other songwriters and arrangers. Work out you own stuff with others' ears to help.

When I listen to songs here, I doesn't surprise me that the best of them are most often created by people who play for audiences, in bands. No great recording quality can make dull arrangements, poor execution, and disorganized ideas into a good listen. There are two roads you have to actively move on: recording; AND musical/composing skill.

I'm guessing that this tune is something you created when you sat down and said 'I gotta write a song'. What you got is uninspired; uninspiring. There's one place where that inspired music lives...inside your head. Listen for it. It's already written. Learn to transcribe what you already have, instead of trying to make something by yourself. The subconscious mind has a juke box that provides soundtrack to your thoughts. You just can't hear it, because your not listening for it. Tell yourself, over and over, that you're tuning in. Sort of self-hypnosis. Believe it's there. It'll start playing so you can hear it, sooner or later. Much better stuff than you can build yourself.

Having some experience arranging a live band, and learning the rythmic mechanics of instruments and pitches, and basic in-the-bones harmony 'what sounds good, and what doesn't, will help you to make what's in your head a reality, without gumming it up.

Honestly, this tune is not good....and it devolves into a disaster when the snare starts soloing over the vocal. The Leslie-fied Farfisa organ solo from start to finish makes me want to hurt myself. There is little effective melody, and the phrasing of the words is just ...... You need experience and learning and listening. Music is made when tones and rhythms are organized.

It's a lot of work.

Hope this is helpful. File under 'tough love'.
 
Wow, thanks for the thorough feedback.

Nope, I've never played in a band. And that's partly why I have trouble getting some sort of emotional connection when I record and attempt to complicate the issue with some random metaphors.

And you are right about my sitting down and saying "I have to write a song." I basically wrote the song out of a sort of compulsion to not abandon it. And that's probably the quickest step to uninspired, sterile stuff.

Yeah, I think I forced and rushed a lot of the songwriting, especially lyrically, and a lot of it is random and nonsensical and lacks focus looking back on it. I honestly think my other song "Perfect Day" is a lot more coherent melodically and less chaotic in terms of mood, since it came a lot more naturally.

And although I'm not a drummer, I recognize listening more intently that parts of the drumming are plain bad. I used a drum VST called Mydrumsetrocks. I actually think it's a bad thing that I use MIDI so much, since it keeps me from actually recording acoustic sources and actually learning drums.

Mixing with headphones mostly doesn't help either. Usually I'm afraid that listening to what I've recorded through my monitors will sound so crappy that I'll refuse to continue with it.

Thanks for the honest evaluation. Yup, you're right about music being a lot of work...compulsively grinding this song out and now in retrospect realizing that most of it's incredibly dull not to mention incoherent (to the point of wtf do I mean by these lyrics?) is frustrating. I definitely rushed this song compared to my other one and it really shows.

I think the main thing for me to do now is take a break from attempting to record and listen to music I like and recognize what I like about it. And possibly find someone to jam with instead of basically wandering in musical wilderness.
 
Not just jam......find some cats who are about where you are, and learn each others' tunes...a lab where you can try things and change them without setting up mics and committing to guesses. Eight pairs of ears is a great thing to have when putting tunes together. Jamming is more like spinning wheels: dedicate the unit to producing polished finished product. Hone and grind. There's a great story about Steve Tyler and Aerosmith's early success. Steve was an anal-retentive perfectionist. He'd make the fellas practice insanely-long hours and days and weeks on single tunes, until they shook the earth. The result was their first few fantastic records. Didn't just happen..they worked their butts off. A guy like that in a band earns the name 'Buzz Saw". The drill sergeant. You need to be him...or to work with that guy.

When you connect with the music in your head, don't try to hear and remember everything at once. Just grab whatever comes first. Remember it. Learn it. The rest is attached, and comes to you as you master that first little thing. Melody of the lead vocal may be all you hear...and maybe a single hookey turn of words. Get the melody first, then craft words to that. A little micro-casette pocket recorder is your best friend. Music comes to you while you're doing and thinking of other things.....you have to grab what you hear FAST...or you lose it forever. After a while you'll be able to hit 'replay' in your mind on short pieces...make them play like loops...and be able to learn the melody. Sing that into the ever-handy pocket recorder RIGHT AWAY. When you play it later, the sound will prompt your imagination...and the snip of tune will start playing again in your head...the whole 'band'. Like magic, honest. It's like being an outside listener to what's playing on your mental jukebox. But , most important, is that you must believe that music plays in your head...and keep telling yourself to listen for it...or you won't hear it. It's faith that gets you there. Faith that you, and everyone born, has a personal, unique soundtrack that plays to your thoughts. And it's better than anything you can try to build yourself. The music is a gift you were born with, courtesy of the Master Composer. Trust me. It took that faith for me to plug in...advice I got from a songwriter I respect very much. He weren't lyin'. The first time you hear a song unfolding in your head, it'll be an "OH S##T" event...your heart will pump real fast, and you'll KNOW it's coming from a special place...'you' have little to do but grab it like an apple on a tree. *pluck*!!! After a while you'll have more ideas than you can use. Believe. It's real.

Any mechanical music knowledge you can pick up along the way can help you transfer what you hear in your head more easily to reality. This takes years of effort, but every day you'll get better at it.

One other thing...if you're using midi drums, you can start to gain independence and other drum skills by playing out parts on a set of inexpensive pads, instead of keys or sequencer-only. Should be able to grab a set really cheap on Craig's List...way under a hundred bucks. Do your scratch track to the metronome setting on the platform, and do one drum track just HH, snare and bass drum. do another track with and ride, etc. After you get three or four midi tracks, you can bounce them together and edit and quantize as necessary....until you can grab a kit...and by which time you'll have some fundamental skills to play music on them.
Just learning to hold sticks comfortably for three minutes while playing is tricky at first.

Just keep working hard....and smart. You'll kick ass, too.

Some of the best schoolin' I ever got was the six days a week I spent in basements and garages hashin' out tunes with my friends for many years, preparing for whatever gigs we could get. The goal made the work meaningful.

ps...don't stop recording. Do something with it, every day. Like just playing with a single vocal line, 30 seconds long...see how fantastic you can make it sound, from performance, to chain, to master. A half-hour of exercize and preparation.
 
yeah, about a micro-cassette recorder, my sansa clip's record function has def been underutilized. i really hate losing little tidbits of lyrics and realizing that they're gone forever, it kind of breaks the organic flow when that happens. i usually only try to write lyrics when i'm around a computer for this reason, though bringing my mp3 player with me should probably get rid of that problem.

i may re-strategorize the way i "unfold" the songs in my head. usually the rhythm guitar/piano goes first, but i think i'll try coming up with the melody/lyrics first more. Also, wasn't it Brian Wilson who said something about the importance of loops or repetition in rock music? Definitely makes me wonder if trying to break things up into manageable loops, like you say, would help my songwriting improve.

i may consider continuing my music theory. i only took 1 semester, and it was mostly only chord stuff, nothing about counterpoint or melody or how the chords should shift in the context of the melody.

about a drum pad: what brand/model can you recommend?

could you listen to "perfect day" (on the same site) and let me know what you think? i think lyrically it's a lot more cohesive, but the main things i'd like to know are how the melody and the drums sound. thanks in advance!
 
I use a cheap Alesis DM5 kit. I've seen the pads alone selling for 50 to 100 bucks on Craigs list. Not the best, but you can play them...mostly stick-rebound issues...hard to do finer things like snare grace notes...but adequate for laying basic grooves...and getting a variance of velocities that make midi tracks more organic...without having to tweedle each note in the sequencer.

Re-strategize.....hmmmm. I think the point is to remove yourself from the process....just listen-in to what your brain is playing, without trying to jazz it up. Be an honest transcriber of what you hear.

Brian Wilson. I met him last summer...came to one of my gigs and hung out for three sets. Skidmarks. :^)
There was an article written about him in a magazine about that same time...I read it. He's a lousy interview, so most of it was with others who were in the studio when he was recording...describing his creative process. The theme was that he composed in his head...or let his brain compose...and he made it real the next day. Virtuallly everything he ever recorded was playing in his head, first.

Music theory is good. Application is tricky. You have to be familiar with what the sounds make you feel...where they want to push the progression. You can read that a dominant 7th wants to lead to a chord a 4th up. But unless you can recognize it, and know it 'in the bones', it's of not much use. The best thing about familiarity is hearing music in your head, and being able to immediately recognize that the 'band' is playing a chord with a
dom7th..shortens the path between hearing and recording. Absolutely continue with study. Add listening and analysis classes, if they're available. You listen to pieces, and pick them apart. It bridges the gap between information and application ......experience the sound of harmony that you learn.

I gave several listens to 'Perfect Day' and made notes:

There are continuous lines being played by cello during, and over, the feature..the vocal. Not good.

There are fishy chords...the piano is playing a maj 7 while another instrument plays a dom7. Repeatedly. There's a repeating chord somewhere with a b5 in it. The extention comes from nowhere, and leads nowhere. Suggest you do a little reading on 'voice-leading'.

[I'm trying to be specific as I can...the streaming won't allow me to rewind...I have to listen to the whole thing again to hear a single sequence.]

There's a part in the verse where the progression goes up the the IV chord. There is no bass root detectible....and the progression becomes ambiguous.

This is a real problem: definition. To wit:

The bass has to lay down the roots of the progression so as to lead the ear. Chords with alterations and/or extentions, in addition to notes of basic, intended triads, contain other triads. If the bass doesn't clue the ear befor wandering of, it confuses the listener. The ear hears multiple possibilities of the for the chord of the moment.

All the instruments are playing a lot of stuff all the time...with a couple very good exceptions where breakdowns occur: a welcome relief. The effect is like walking into a room crowded with a hundred people , all talking at once. You, the composer, have to bang the gavel, bring the place to order, and introduce the speaker...the feature of the moment in the song. Other instruments need to pay attention to the feature. Otherwise, it's chaos.

The piece's piano reminds me of Bruce Hornsby's bag. It might be a good thing to listen to how he does it without stepping on everything else in the song: contrast, space, punctuation.

I hear a lot of gospelly influence in the piano. That's good. Basic triads. Simple motion. There are places in "Day" where two instruments together are playing thick, conflicting chords in passing. Simplify the structures to get them jiving together. Less is a lot more.

The vocal melody consists mostly of step-wise scale motion. It is very weak. Good melody outlines and/or follows changes with chord tones. And there are places where the vox line is suggesting one chord, the instruments, another. And singing later parts an octave up would inject some adrenaline into the story. The phrasing of the words is consistently awkward. You need melody first. Contrive lyric to fit...and peel off conversationally, with purposeful exceptions that draw attention. Quirks.

[good melody is the forte of the inner juke. It's the supreme thing in music.
String quartet is a good study. Four melodies outlining chords, counterpoint melody, time. An extreme example of where you need to go to de-confuse the thick, wandering tapestry you weave with all those notes playing at once.]

But forget all that stuff, for now. Concentrate on what plays in your head. Listen to it. Obey it, without trying to make it 'better'. That is, leave space; organize melodic things to play beneath the feature; have two or more instruments play things together about half the time. Your inner composer does this for you. Just listen.

That's really the important thing: Like Brian Wilson, you must HEAR it FIRST. You're on the right track after that. Keep it simple.


btw...
I was just thinking about what you might listen to , to lead you to the place where this compostion needs go get to:

"Hey 19" by Don Fagan [Steely Dan] is the best I can recommend. Listen to the simplicity of the groove in the verses...punctuated piano figures. The out-front snare chugging along; the PULSE on the bass drum and bass guitar; the arpeggios sung in the melody. There's half space, half music. The idea would be to realize that you composition is that crowded hall with everyone talking at once. All the 'words' of the music, as it unfolds, strung together: iwentdowntowntoseemygalandshesaidtakeahikeyouidiot.....
 
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Dude, I actually dig it . . . in a way. It's kinda fun. The drums absolutely suck. Use loops rather than trying to program them. I like the choice of sounds you used. With better rhythm arrangement (something that doesn't sound mechanical and fake drum machiney), I think this song would be good. Some of the synth stuff in the beginning reminds me of Postal Service. I like the lazy feel of it. Your voice lends to that . . . it's got a real Ben Folds sound to it. . . almost eerily. The drums hurt my brain though . . .
 
There's an important lesson in earthbound's post. Don't be afraid to make stuff , and worry about what other's may say about it. There's 6 billion people on the planet. Virtually anything you can make will find appreciation.

The suggestions I offer are not absolutes...more like tools to apply, or not, according to how YOU like the result of experimentation.

Do what you do. Offer it up. Someone will love it!
 
Dude, I actually dig it . . . in a way. It's kinda fun. The drums absolutely suck. Use loops rather than trying to program them. I like the choice of sounds you used. With better rhythm arrangement (something that doesn't sound mechanical and fake drum machiney), I think this song would be good. Some of the synth stuff in the beginning reminds me of Postal Service. I like the lazy feel of it. Your voice lends to that . . . it's got a real Ben Folds sound to it. . . almost eerily. The drums hurt my brain though . . .


Dude that was what I instantly thought! Man, soooo Ben Folds sounding. The verses kinda got exhausting. You could probably have less stuff going on and still get away with it. It sounds good though man, keep doing this stuff. Is that you playing the cello? I would probably love this song if it were just like piano, electric guitar and that cello. Screw the sampled drums ... they are good sounds but not good sounding, not when it's not musical.

Keep making music man.
 
Hey guys,

Thanks a bunch for all the feedback. Yeah, I can see the comparison to Ben Folds. I haven't listened to anything of his since Rockin' the Suburbs though, prob my fave of his.

Yeah, I think I try to over-complicate the drum programming and need to bring it down to the basics. I'm going to remove that one half-baked monotonous and monotonal synth melody in the background. I think the LFO I used makes it tiring/distracting to have just drifting in the background.

I've definitely been taking to heart controlling the chaos more, since I have some idea of what elements I want to use, but have trouble trying to get it so they don't conflict.

And by the way, it was Brian Eno who has a quote about loops. I think it's something like loops are never the same since the listener's perception and feelings attached to it change every time. Kind of makes me want to listen to Roxy Music, a band I never really got into but probably could learn from in how to make effective synth lines.

Anyways, thanks for listening and critiquing and the encouragement!
 
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I would be lost without good loop libraries. I absolutely hate trying to program drums, I'm not a great drummer to boot and don't have a good space to record drums in etc etc. . . Loop libraries let me focus on what I'm better at.

I have spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars on good loops . . . Whenever a new good library is released I try to snag it up. Some you may want to try are the M Audio ProSessions stuff, drumsondemand.com stuff or libraries from Sony as well. With a DAW that can tempo sync your loops (without changing pitch), you can get real creative.

Just my thoughts.
 
Yeah...Roxy.....and Duran Duran. They were absolutely POPPIN' units.

A lot of Duran's stuff was way bubblegummy; but , MAN, that bass player and drummer were a case study in 'groove' and 'pump'.

Roxy had some fantastic and tight tight tight syncopation on their cuts.
Good schoolin'! Make y' wanna moove. Everything in the bag and cinched up likkedy. A nice dialogue between instruments. I appreciate those records and performances a lot more, now that I'm trying to get the same lightening on my records. So far all I get is an occasional static snap.

Midi drums: my failing is the tom fills. Just can't seem to make them work like I hear real drummers doin'. More study. I can play basic time and groove on a set...but making good fills is just beyond me. More practice...
 
id leave drum programming for a while...i know i have...seems to be the most difficult part of recording (for me anyway)...plenty of loops out there to get you going and/or progs like ez drummer than can acheive some pretty decent sounds..

some good advice in these posts...i did five years piano lessons as a kid that acheived pretty much nothing...but its paid dividends now...just simplify your song structure to begin with, im sticking with the intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, etc etc until i can nail something coherent..maybe you should adopt this as well..


best of luck, keep posting up songs...the guys here know what they are talking about
 
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