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cmiltond
New member
Can I run my Fostex 4 track to my computer? Stereo out --> Soundcard? If so, what software do I need?
J
Jim Marquard
New member
Yeah, 4-track to sound card using your stereo outs is the way to go. You will probably need to get a 1/4" - 1/8" adapter or an RCA - 1/8" adapter. Either one can be gotten from Radio Shack for under $10. As for software, there are a bunch--Cakewalk, Cool Edit Pro, n-track, Beckers Music Center Pro, etc. You can find some at Staples or the like, others at your local pro music center. They will run from @ $30 (n-track from their web site) to $400+. Also, you will probably want to invest in a descent sound card. If you have a stock computer card, the A/D converters most likely suck (mine do). The good news is that decent cards can be had for well under $200, depending on your needs. But you may want to search the sound card forums for ideas on which to get.
Peace, Jim
Peace, Jim
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cmiltond
New member
Thanks, Jim...Couple more ?'s
Bear with me here. This is the scenario. I have un-mixed down tracks on a tape in my 4 track. I plug my 4 track in to my computer via the soundcard. At this point, do I use software such as Cakewalk to pull the 4 individual tracks of the tape? At that point what kind of control do I have over the tracks individualy. Is this the way to go? Thanks for you patience with the newbie.
Bear with me here. This is the scenario. I have un-mixed down tracks on a tape in my 4 track. I plug my 4 track in to my computer via the soundcard. At this point, do I use software such as Cakewalk to pull the 4 individual tracks of the tape? At that point what kind of control do I have over the tracks individualy. Is this the way to go? Thanks for you patience with the newbie.
regebro
Insane Genious!
You download two tracks at a time. The sync between these can be problematic if they are continous, but if the two last tracks are for example vocals, then you can cut them up in the pauses, and shift them manually if you need to.
You use any hard disk recording software. Cheap ones to start out with are n-track or Pro Tools Free.
You use any hard disk recording software. Cheap ones to start out with are n-track or Pro Tools Free.
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secretorchard
New member
Transferring tracks
I think his question has more to do with the actual means by which the tracks are transferred. In other words, does he get into the Cakewalk (or Cool Edit Pro or Sound Forge) application and from there, transfer the two tracks from the FD-4 to his computer? Is there something in the menus of these app's that corresponds to transferring tracks from an external recording device?
Now to my question. I thought that one had to use the digital optical I/O jack on the FD-4 to transfer to a soundcard?? Jim's original reply says that you can use the stereo out jack. Is that right? If so, then I don't need the add-on to my SB Live! soundcard that enables digital optical transfer.
For the experts, is Cool Edit Pro better than Sound Forge?
How do these two differ from Cakewalk?
I think his question has more to do with the actual means by which the tracks are transferred. In other words, does he get into the Cakewalk (or Cool Edit Pro or Sound Forge) application and from there, transfer the two tracks from the FD-4 to his computer? Is there something in the menus of these app's that corresponds to transferring tracks from an external recording device?
Now to my question. I thought that one had to use the digital optical I/O jack on the FD-4 to transfer to a soundcard?? Jim's original reply says that you can use the stereo out jack. Is that right? If so, then I don't need the add-on to my SB Live! soundcard that enables digital optical transfer.
For the experts, is Cool Edit Pro better than Sound Forge?
How do these two differ from Cakewalk?
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Donny
New member
FD-4
I use the FD-4 all the time to record live and then I down load it to Cakewalk through the stereo out with a 1/8" adapter. You can only down load two tracks at a time. Do your mixing on the FD-4, or you can use it as a mixer and record stright to your computer. I use an ORB disk drive 2.2 gig and can record almost 7 hours single track. It works good for what I use it for. Donny!!!
I use the FD-4 all the time to record live and then I down load it to Cakewalk through the stereo out with a 1/8" adapter. You can only down load two tracks at a time. Do your mixing on the FD-4, or you can use it as a mixer and record stright to your computer. I use an ORB disk drive 2.2 gig and can record almost 7 hours single track. It works good for what I use it for. Donny!!!
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secretorchard
New member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but by transferring using the stereo outs to the 1/8" connection on your soundcard, aren't you basically using your computer as a recording device? Isn't it just recording the output from the Fostex? I guess I thought that the major advantage of transferring using the optical digital connection was that rather than your computer recording the input, it is actually just receiving data from the FD-4. This reduces the likelihood of soundcards causing signal degredation, resulting in a lower-quality recording. I am far from an expert, so that's really why I'm asking these questions. If I don't need to buy the optical digital I/O add-on for my soundcard, then I don't want to waste money. If there is no quality loss by using the stereo out (you connect right and left, with an RCA-to-1/8" converter, right?) to the soundcard, then great! Anyone here have an opinion? I have read on other discussion forums where you should transfer using the digital out from the FD-4, but they never mentioned the idea of just using the stereo outs.
Also, in your case Donny, in cakewalk, how do you actually begin the transfer of the files from the FD-4 to your computer? Is there an "import" command, or what? Thanks..
jason
Also, in your case Donny, in cakewalk, how do you actually begin the transfer of the files from the FD-4 to your computer? Is there an "import" command, or what? Thanks..
jason
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Donny
New member
Cakewalk
I use the record button on the track I want too record to. Ya gota have both hands going at the same time but it works for me. I make demo's all the time this way. All I know is if it works don't mess with it. Later, Donny!!!
I use the record button on the track I want too record to. Ya gota have both hands going at the same time but it works for me. I make demo's all the time this way. All I know is if it works don't mess with it. Later, Donny!!!
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Keiphus
New member
I have an FD-8 that I run to the PC via optical S/PDIF to my MAudio Dio 2448 card. This is definitely the way to go ...and best of all the card is only $89 at www.marsmusic.com
You can use it in conjunction with you SB for any Midi stuff you're doing. I've had mine a couple of weeks and it works (and sounds) great.
The stereo out method will work for you for now, though it will involve a D/A and an A/D conversion, which will certainly affect the sound.
You can use it in conjunction with you SB for any Midi stuff you're doing. I've had mine a couple of weeks and it works (and sounds) great.
The stereo out method will work for you for now, though it will involve a D/A and an A/D conversion, which will certainly affect the sound.
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secretorchard
New member
So, the digitial optical line is the way to go for the greatest preservation of the signal. That's what I have read elsewhere. Now, all I need to do is get the add-on card for my SB Live that has the optical I/O jack. Question, Keiphus...when you transfer a track from the FD-8 over your optical connection to the soundcard, what application are you using to "receive" the input? I mean, do you open Cool Edit Pro or Cakewalk and "record" the signal or do you somehow copy it directly to a directory on your hard drive? I would seem that you have to somehow store or record the signal that is coming into your soundcard from the FD-8. Thanks.
secretorchard
secretorchard
K
Keiphus
New member
While I admit it would be nice to be a able to transfer from the Fostex to the PC as a data file, that ain't what's happenin' in my transfers. It's still a "dub" like any other dub. Open a multitracker on your PC (N Track or Cakewalk in my case) hit record on that and play on the Fostex.
You do have to go to setup on the Fostex and pick the tracks that'll be the digital output...and you can only send two. There is *no* apparent signal degradation even when tracks are bounced back to the Fostex then back to the computer again.
Grab the Dio, or equivalent, and let it live right next to your Live! card (if you have the room). You'll be glad you did.
You do have to go to setup on the Fostex and pick the tracks that'll be the digital output...and you can only send two. There is *no* apparent signal degradation even when tracks are bounced back to the Fostex then back to the computer again.
Grab the Dio, or equivalent, and let it live right next to your Live! card (if you have the room). You'll be glad you did.
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secretorchard
New member
Keiphus,
Thanks for replying. I think you've about got me convinced that I should get some sort of add-on card for my SB Live. I am slightly worried about getting an Maudio Dio, due to compatibility problems. Do you just have the 2448 or did you buy it as an add-on to some other sound card? I went to SB's website and found this: http://www.soundblaster.com/accessories/optical-io/
If you go here, you'll see that SB has their version of the Dio card. I am tempted to buy this one, since it's the same brand as my current sound card. I don't know if the Maudio is superior in any way that isn't obvious from the reading, however.
If you had to guess, what percentage of signal degredation is incurred by using the analog stereo out jacks to the hard drive? I think I will have a listen tonight, and directly compare the playback from the FD-4 to the playback of the same recording after being transferred to my hard drive over the stereo outs. If I can't hear the difference, then that begs the question, why do I need an digital optical transfer?? Perhaps, one reason might be that if I transfer 8 separate tracks using the stereo outs, and mix them down to a master track, the *cumulative* loss of signal may be detectable when compared to those same 8 tracks optically transferred, then mixed down into a master. I wish someone out there had tried all of this stuff
secretorchard
Thanks for replying. I think you've about got me convinced that I should get some sort of add-on card for my SB Live. I am slightly worried about getting an Maudio Dio, due to compatibility problems. Do you just have the 2448 or did you buy it as an add-on to some other sound card? I went to SB's website and found this: http://www.soundblaster.com/accessories/optical-io/
If you go here, you'll see that SB has their version of the Dio card. I am tempted to buy this one, since it's the same brand as my current sound card. I don't know if the Maudio is superior in any way that isn't obvious from the reading, however.
If you had to guess, what percentage of signal degredation is incurred by using the analog stereo out jacks to the hard drive? I think I will have a listen tonight, and directly compare the playback from the FD-4 to the playback of the same recording after being transferred to my hard drive over the stereo outs. If I can't hear the difference, then that begs the question, why do I need an digital optical transfer?? Perhaps, one reason might be that if I transfer 8 separate tracks using the stereo outs, and mix them down to a master track, the *cumulative* loss of signal may be detectable when compared to those same 8 tracks optically transferred, then mixed down into a master. I wish someone out there had tried all of this stuff
secretorchard
K
Keiphus
New member
I'm running on a *very* low end system. A 333 Celeron (tweaked a bit) that came with an Creative SB Audio PCI 64V sound card. I recently bought the Dio for the express purpose of moving my tracks in the digital domain. I had been moving them via the stereo outs to a phono/TRS mini-plug into the SB. Since installing the Dio a couple of weeks ago, I have had no compatability problems.
Hmm, that add on for the Live! looks pretty sweet....if you have a Live!. Midi I/O's, which the Dio ain't got, and $30 less.
Well, since I have to guess, I'd say 10-20%. That sounds high, I know, but with my old card it was *at least* that much after the A/D (from the original recording), the D/A (from the Fostex to the stereo outs) and the A/D again (the SB to the multitrack software). The tracks moved over the optical I/O's are night and day over that.
I think I will have a listen tonight, and directly compare the playback from the FD-4 to the playback of the same recording after being transferred to my hard drive over the stereo outs. If I can't hear the difference, then that begs the question, why do I need an digital optical transfer?? Perhaps, one reason might be that if I transfer 8 separate tracks using the stereo outs, and mix them down to a master track, the *cumulative* loss of signal may be detectable when compared to those same 8 tracks optically transferred, then mixed down into a master. I wish someone out there had tried all of this stuff
I reckon' you'll hear a difference, though maybe not as drastic as I did (since the Live! is a few pegs over mine in the sound card hierachy). Someone more familiar than I with the Live! card will have to comment on the aforementioned add-on. It does look like just what the doctor ordered for your situation.
Let us know how the test comes out.
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secretorchard
New member
I did some more extensive reading on the SB Digital Optical add-on, and found this worrisome statement:
Coaxial S/PDIF Out and Optical Out available simultaneously at fixed 48kHz sampling rate.
My FD-4 has a sampling rate of 44.1kHz, which is standard for CD quality recordings. If the SB add-on only samples at 48kHz, I will need to somehow convert it back to 44.1kHz inside of CEP, right? Let me ask you this, Keiphus, does your Maudio DIO have an adjustable sampling rate? In any case, can it sample at 44.1kHz?
Perhaps some expert members on this board could offer their thoughts? Thanks.
secretorchard
Coaxial S/PDIF Out and Optical Out available simultaneously at fixed 48kHz sampling rate.
My FD-4 has a sampling rate of 44.1kHz, which is standard for CD quality recordings. If the SB add-on only samples at 48kHz, I will need to somehow convert it back to 44.1kHz inside of CEP, right? Let me ask you this, Keiphus, does your Maudio DIO have an adjustable sampling rate? In any case, can it sample at 44.1kHz?
Perhaps some expert members on this board could offer their thoughts? Thanks.
secretorchard
K
Keiphus
New member
That *is* a rather worrisome statement you found there, as I was under the assumption that when transferring between two digital devices that the sampling rate(s) should be the same. This is very true of the Fostex-DAT transfers I've done in the past. I've been sending tracks the same as I would to a DAT since getting the new card.
On the Dio, the sampling rates are set through the tracking software. I set the sampling rate in the 'tracker software to match that of the Fostex. The Dio will sample up to 48KHz...it says nothing in the literature of a "fixed" rate.
Did you try the stereo outs to the 1/8th in, yet? Is it as clear as straight out the Fostex through the headphones? Inquiring minds want to know!
On the Dio, the sampling rates are set through the tracking software. I set the sampling rate in the 'tracker software to match that of the Fostex. The Dio will sample up to 48KHz...it says nothing in the literature of a "fixed" rate.
Did you try the stereo outs to the 1/8th in, yet? Is it as clear as straight out the Fostex through the headphones? Inquiring minds want to know!
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secretorchard
New member
Yeah, it's so worrisome that I dug even deeper into this soundcard riddle, and this is the site that I really learned a lot from:
http://www.bway.net/~rongon/home_rec/home.html#TOC
This has some great information, and he does a good job of explaining things. Turns out , the SB products are kind of murky sounding, and if I am going to buy an add-on, it will be the Maudio DIO 2448. It get's a nice synopsis on this site, and for the recording that I do (I couldn't care less about midi), this is what I need. I remember reading, a long time ago on another site, that SB wasn't compatible with an FD-4 due to the sampling rates. At the time I didn't know what they were talking about, but now, seeing that 48 kHz fixed rate, I know what's going on.
I have not done the comparison experiment yet, but in a sense,
it doesn't matter. I learned a lot from that site about A/D and D/A converters, and the loss of quality with too many conversions. By using the stero outs, I am introducing an additional TWO conversions. Here's the sequence, and I post this for any future newbies who need to understand how this process works:
1. Record analog instrument (let's say, electric guitar) to the digital multi-tracker. This process involves one analog-to-digital conversion, since the guitar's analog signal is stored digitally on the hard disk of the multi-tracker.
2. If you send this signal to your computer's sound card through the stereo out jacks (which are analog jacks on the FD-4), then the FD-4 must convert the digital recording to analog to send it, so there's another conversion.
3. When the sound card receives the analog input through the Line In jack, it does an analog to digital conversion and stores it on your computer's hard drive in a *.wav format. So that's another conversion.
Now, let's say you use an optical transfer from the FD-4 to the soundcard. In this case step one is the same..you can't dodge that first analog-to-digital conversion. However, steps two and three are different. In this case your signal remains digital from the FD-4 to the sound card and to the hard drive. Thus, there is only ONE conversion, the original one.
Now, an additional consideration is when you go to burn a cd on the CD-RW. Apparently, if the sound card only has analog outs, then the cd-rw must do a conversion. The Maudio DIO has s/pdif out (optical and coax) and digital "thru." My question is, do most CD-RWs have digital in, in the form of an optical in or coax in?
secretorchard
http://www.bway.net/~rongon/home_rec/home.html#TOC
This has some great information, and he does a good job of explaining things. Turns out , the SB products are kind of murky sounding, and if I am going to buy an add-on, it will be the Maudio DIO 2448. It get's a nice synopsis on this site, and for the recording that I do (I couldn't care less about midi), this is what I need. I remember reading, a long time ago on another site, that SB wasn't compatible with an FD-4 due to the sampling rates. At the time I didn't know what they were talking about, but now, seeing that 48 kHz fixed rate, I know what's going on.
I have not done the comparison experiment yet, but in a sense,
it doesn't matter. I learned a lot from that site about A/D and D/A converters, and the loss of quality with too many conversions. By using the stero outs, I am introducing an additional TWO conversions. Here's the sequence, and I post this for any future newbies who need to understand how this process works:
1. Record analog instrument (let's say, electric guitar) to the digital multi-tracker. This process involves one analog-to-digital conversion, since the guitar's analog signal is stored digitally on the hard disk of the multi-tracker.
2. If you send this signal to your computer's sound card through the stereo out jacks (which are analog jacks on the FD-4), then the FD-4 must convert the digital recording to analog to send it, so there's another conversion.
3. When the sound card receives the analog input through the Line In jack, it does an analog to digital conversion and stores it on your computer's hard drive in a *.wav format. So that's another conversion.
Now, let's say you use an optical transfer from the FD-4 to the soundcard. In this case step one is the same..you can't dodge that first analog-to-digital conversion. However, steps two and three are different. In this case your signal remains digital from the FD-4 to the sound card and to the hard drive. Thus, there is only ONE conversion, the original one.
Now, an additional consideration is when you go to burn a cd on the CD-RW. Apparently, if the sound card only has analog outs, then the cd-rw must do a conversion. The Maudio DIO has s/pdif out (optical and coax) and digital "thru." My question is, do most CD-RWs have digital in, in the form of an optical in or coax in?
secretorchard
K
Keiphus
New member
Yes. Most that I've seen do. I use a Philips 700 standalone which does indeed have an optical in...though I wouldn't recommend that particular component to you. Mine is currently in the "shop" for repairs.
I plan to invest in an internal SCSI burner soon. The Dio has both digital and analog headers on the card to hook up *internal* CD or CD-R(w) drives, though only one header can be used at a time (my CD is currently hooked up to the analog header). When I get the new burner, it will go to the digital header and the CD will go back to my old card. I'll have an extra optical S/PDIF cable then...maybe I can get my $35 back...
Best of luck to you, Jason.
I plan to invest in an internal SCSI burner soon. The Dio has both digital and analog headers on the card to hook up *internal* CD or CD-R(w) drives, though only one header can be used at a time (my CD is currently hooked up to the analog header). When I get the new burner, it will go to the digital header and the CD will go back to my old card. I'll have an extra optical S/PDIF cable then...maybe I can get my $35 back...
Best of luck to you, Jason.
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secretorchard
New member
Keiphus,
When you say "header," what do you mean? Is this an optical
connection? As I recall my sound card's s/pdif, it was a 2 or 3 pin affair, not coax or optical. Is this what you mean by header?
I have an internal sony Cd-rw, which is fine, I suppose, but scsi is better.
When you say "header," what do you mean? Is this an optical
connection? As I recall my sound card's s/pdif, it was a 2 or 3 pin affair, not coax or optical. Is this what you mean by header?
I have an internal sony Cd-rw, which is fine, I suppose, but scsi is better.
K
Keiphus
New member
Yes.
The CD-RW you have now is connected to your sound card, n'est pas? The connector on the card that it plugs into is called a header. It is a 2-4 pin, non-optical, connection. IIRC, the digital header looked a little different than the analog. Since I don't have an internal digital drive yet, I don't know the exact nature of the cable that plugs into it.
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secretorchard
New member
Keiphus,
Well, at long last, I'm taking the plunge and getting the DIO 2448. You mentioned that you installed it right next to your SB Live! card with no compatibility problems. That's good, because I have an SB Live! and I'm a little worried about this. I guess I'm wondering, how does the motherboard know which soundcard to use for a given sound? Now, in Cool Edit Pro, I can select the sound source, which would be the DIO 2448. So that's obvious, but are there any settings of which I should be aware after installing the DIO 2448?
Also, I have a CD-ROM and an internal CD-RW. I plan to run the analog audio cable from the CD-ROM to the SB Live! for general CD playing and for data transfer from a cd to my hard drive. I plant to run a s/pdif cable from my CD-RW to the DIO internal connection. This should allow me to burn my songs without any A/D conversions, correct? Thanks for your help.
secretorchard
Well, at long last, I'm taking the plunge and getting the DIO 2448. You mentioned that you installed it right next to your SB Live! card with no compatibility problems. That's good, because I have an SB Live! and I'm a little worried about this. I guess I'm wondering, how does the motherboard know which soundcard to use for a given sound? Now, in Cool Edit Pro, I can select the sound source, which would be the DIO 2448. So that's obvious, but are there any settings of which I should be aware after installing the DIO 2448?
Also, I have a CD-ROM and an internal CD-RW. I plan to run the analog audio cable from the CD-ROM to the SB Live! for general CD playing and for data transfer from a cd to my hard drive. I plant to run a s/pdif cable from my CD-RW to the DIO internal connection. This should allow me to burn my songs without any A/D conversions, correct? Thanks for your help.
secretorchard