For all the metal heads

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booyah14

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I see on most metal boards about how most engineers mic up at least 2 mics on a guitar cab. I understand that in metal you really need that thick heavy tone, but my question is...why do they just not retrack a few times? It seems like it is more work to stay in phase and be able to blend them than to simply rerecord say 3 or 4 times? Only thing I can think of is that it is easier to mic the deep part on the cone and then one on the center to pick up more of the attack.

I must say that I have been trying this technique lately and I have found it fun to try to dial in that tone.
 
dudududu

"Traditional" musical recording techniques are making a come back.... some people will gouge your eyes out if you tell them tracking 2 or 3 mic's on an amp is just as sweet sounding as mixing multiple di tracks or one di track and one mic track......JUST MIX IT!!!!!!
 
consider asking this question on the Andy Sneap forum... master of all metal...

Andy Sneap Forum

Here's my take...

I think you asked two questions:

1. Double micing a single track versus reamping

This one is a tone issue... two mics yeild more possibilities that just one mic. The mics are placed side-by-side so phasing is minimized.

Reamping can be used for different amps, changing the tone or fixing a problem with the first take. Since the source is the same it's not a way to yield a much thicker tone by stacking the same part.

2. Double or multi-tracking guitar parts

Although more difficult and relies on the player's ability to track identical parts. This along with double micing can yield very thick tones.

kp-
 
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tracking the same guitar part twice gives you a lot of options such as doing this ancient technique called "producing" where you can convince the player to write or improvise a second part for a song to achieve a desired effect. You just need to cover all the grounds of being able to make people not question your ability to interpret their style or flow of their songs. :D
 
So can I assume that basically double micing an amp is for the guitarist that can be spot on with double tracking. I understand you can change amps and get different tones, but let's be honest. Just moving another mic a few inches away on the same speaker will give it tons of different tone.

Now suppose the guitarist can play spot on, what would be the purpose of double micing then? Seems like you would get a much fuller sound if you just tracked a few times with a different tones to get that "arena" heavy sound.

Just trying to really understand why people do it, don't take it as being smart or anything, hopefully other people would like to know this as well. Thanks for answering so quick guys!
 
try this

double mic with two very commonly used mics: 57 and a MD421

you'll hear the difference... those two together in some combination can produce a tone that neither can produce alone...

this does not speak at all to double tracking...

kp-
 
I think there is a commone misconception here. Multiple micing is not meant to replace double tracking. Multiple mics deals with singular tone of a track. It allows you to change the way a single performance sounds by blending mics, panning a little etc.... Double tracking is meant to thicken the feel of the guitar parts. In the end, I find that double tracking makes a fatter fuller sound, by single or multiple micing without a double track makes a tighter and more aggressive sound. They are both techniques that each offer their own disadvantages and advantages. Sometimes a doubled track doesn't sit right in a mix, and sometimes multiple mics just don't sound as good as one good mic on the source. Neither one was ever meant to replace the other though.

As far as phase aligning goes.... So what if it takes a little longer? Recording is not about just getting it done as quickly as possible. Its about getting it done in the best way possible. If it was all about getting it done quick we would all just use a amp simulator, then copy the guitar track to a new one, pan it differently, EQ it a little differently, and delay it a touch.
 
Actually you normally do seperate double tracking to get a humanizing effect which is what gives the song a lot of body. All the tiny imperfections in the 2 (or more) tracks give it the feel of a real person playing it.
 
PaFlAePx said:
Actually you normally do seperate double tracking to get a humanizing effect which is what gives the song a lot of body. All the tiny imperfections in the 2 (or more) tracks give it the feel of a real person playing it.
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how can you double track at the same time? :confused:
 
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SORRY!!!! i can't keep up with everyone's different terminology..... okay i'll call them seperate tracks and next time i refer to single tracks doubled i'll call it stereo pairing....ummm.....weak.....i bet you know all the names and model numbers of all the latest recording gear too huh???....that's okay, at least next time i can remember that we all should be going by the same information that you have. :mad:
 
PaFlAePx said:
Actually you normally do seperate double tracking to get a humanizing effect which is what gives the song a lot of body. All the tiny imperfections in the 2 (or more) tracks give it the feel of a real person playing it.
Click to expand...

YOU may do it for this reason, but others may do it for another. Maybe if you just read the posts and accept the fact that everyone has different styles and methods you will actually learn something. It does not require double tracking to get a full fat guitar sound. It does not require multiple mics either. What it does require is a good guitar player with a good guitar and good tone in conjunction with a good engineer that knows how to track and mix with the tools they have.
 
xstatic said:
YOU may do it for this reason, but others may do it for another. Maybe if you just read the posts and accept the fact that everyone has different styles and methods you will actually learn something. It does not require double tracking to get a full fat guitar sound. It does not require multiple mics either. What it does require is a good guitar player with a good guitar and good tone in conjunction with a good engineer that knows how to track and mix with the tools they have.
Click to expand...
yep, no substitute for good technique and tone...
 
I AM SOOOO SORRY!!!!......i forgot that reading about what sounds best in online forums can better your knowledge of recording more easily and effectively than actually recording music for hundreds of hours experimenting with any sound you can think of......and also, i can fix ANYTHING in post production. but i guess you guys win either way.. :D
 
Congratulations, you no longer need homerecording.com You are now ready to move right up to www.Iamtheworldsgreatestandonlytrueengineer.com The fact that you have turned suggestions, constructive advice and alternate techniques into a personal attack speaks worlds about yourself. If you honestly think that there is only one way to do things and that your way is that one true way, then you have reached the end of your recording career.

Attitude like the one that you convey on here means that you have finished growing as an engineer and that you will forever be stuck in the sad place that you are now. Your client base will dry up and the rest of the world will happily move past you and your ability because they are willing to try different things and understand that there is no one way to do things but actually many different ways. Some of those ways may be better than others in different circumstances, but those people will at least have those options open and will hopefully have the intelligence to explore those options and THEN decide which one is the correct choice for that day.

Personally, I don't know how you ever took any of the above posts as a personal attack. No one said you were wrong. No one said anything about you personally (except for me now in this current post, but you earned this one all on your own). It really is OK to try things differently. It really is OK to learn things on forums. It really is OK to experiment on your own. All of those things are the things the make great producers, engineers, and musicians. NONE of the great people out there got to where they are by thinking that their way is always right and is the only way to do it. Hopefully you can get past the extreme love you have for yourself and become a useful contributor here. Then and only then will you be able to help others grow and learn some stuff yourself. Until then though, we would all be better off if you refrained from posting.
 
That took so long to type i bet.... well thank you for all the thought you've put in to me since you don't know me or anything about me... i can tell that you're the type to sit right where you are now and argue with someone who doesn't matter that you don't know just because you think you've proved somekind of point which will change how everyone thinks for the better.....BWWAAAHHH HAAA HAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!! :)
 
You are correct in the fact that I don't know you. You are however incorrect about me not knowing anything about you. I know that you are stubborn and errogant and can not stand it if someone has an idea other than yours. The last post took me about 5 minutes at the most to type. Now I am going to go the bank, head off to trouble shoot a live system, and then come back to the studio and do some gear repairs and some mixing. But hey, thanks for your concern:)

Actually, I haven't proved any point. You however have thankfully proved all of my points for me in a much better way than I could have ever done. I learned something valuable a long time ago. Basically, everyone has something they can offer me. I can learn something from any person on this planet. I have even learned something from you. I have learned exactly how not to be in life. Congratulations and thank you for that:)

Now hopefully this post can get back on track and the rest of the readers can either share some knowledge or take some home. My apology goes out to the origianl poster who came here to learn something. I am sorry I have contributed to this post getting so far off track (all though there was still some valid information in it as well). :)
 
i love internet wars :D

and i always put at least two mics on a guitar cabinet,
main reason: there's always a lack of time here, so most of the time i put an
Akg 414 and an Md421 (rarely a 57) on the same speaker,
both mics go trough a different preamp/eq,
i do this not with the intention to really use both signals, its makes me work faster, when i record, and we all listen to the take i switch from mic1 to mic 2, and i just use the best sounding take ,
of COURSE i do a few test recordings, move both mics a bit around,

i've had real nice results with just using One of the mics, copying it to another track , pan both signals hard L+R and give one of them some delay , the phase difference often gives a real nice character to the signal,

i work with amateur bands, most of them have a REAL HARD time playing their thing in one time, we're always happy if we finally got something usefull,
so mostly its too difficult to really try "doubling", they just can't play the same thing twice, they always fuck up, so we loose ALOT of time cause the guitar players aren't good,
sometimes i even put three mics in front of the amp,
i make one sound as natural as possible and the other two get tweaked real hard, in the end i just choose the best sounding track and sometimes i mix them... DEPENDS..depends...depends..

and weird thing, i heard so many people compliment the akg414 on guitar cabinets but i don't like it, the 421 sounds so much more solid, less harsh,
i've noticed that with different amps (tube/transistor), different preamps (symetrix 528, M8, joemeek vc8, a big digidesign thing...)
 
earworm said:
i work with amateur bands, most of them have a REAL HARD time playing their thing in one time, we're always happy if we finally got something usefull
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:eek: wow, I know this one... :eek:
 
Yes before all of the crapola was posted I do want to thank you guys for answering my question. And I definitely would think it would help for your not so tight sounding bands that can't be dead on throughout a whole song. Good stuff, any other tips would be appreciated. Thanks again guys.
 
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