Folders and panning

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BriamJH

Member
I'm a newbie doing my first mix. I have used folders with a couple of child tracks in the folder. I have panned the child tracks, one left and one right. However, when I listen to the folder track, the panning is centre. Is there a way to retain the panning when going from child to folder. Many thanks, Brian
 
Hi Brian.

You didn't tell us what DAW you're using, but I'm assuming you use REAPER because of the terminology you're using (Folders, child tracks, etc...).

Anyway, are there any effects on the "parent" track? If so, make sure there isn't a mono plug-in somewhere in the effects chain. This would make everything shrink to mono. If you're not sure whether there's a mono effect, bypass all effects (even on the child track just to be safe) and see if you can pan and get the result you want.
 
You should be getting the same panning and effects from the parent folder as you are from all the individual tracks. Here's a project that I have and all of the drum tracks are fed to the Drum Mix parent. The track has the same panning as if they were set as normal tracks. You can see the individual pan assignments on each child track. If I solo the parent, I just get drums. It's an easy way to do a quick tweak of the drum level without screwing up the balance of the kit.

The only thing that I did to the parent using it that way is to set the pan control to Stereo Pan and use the -3dB pan law. It also gives me the width control so that I can narrow the width of the drums if it sounds too wide.
drum Folder Track.jpg
 
BTW, There's a very simple way to see if the parent folder in Reaper is affecting the output. Simply click the folder icon of the parent which will disassociate the parent from the child tracks. Click again and it reassociates the tracks. Unless you have effects and panning changes on the parent, the two should be identical.
 
TalismanRich said:
Simply click the folder icon of the parent which will disassociate the parent from the child tracks.
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Just be careful when you do that. You can blow your ears and/or speakers out. If your Parent is set at -12 (for example), and your snare is set at 0 (unity), once you disassociate the parent from the children, that snare will now be very loud, since the parent isn't turning it down 12 db. Just something to watch out for.
 
Random dude said:
You can blow your ears and/or speakers out.
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If anything that could possibly come out of your interface actually damages your ears, you’re monitoring WAY too loud to begin with. If it damages your speakers, they are not big enough to monitor as loud as you’re trying to go. Specify and calibrate your monitors and don’t be afraid.

That said, -3db pan law on the parent literally turns the whole thing down by 3db when that folder’s pan knob is centered. Removing it WILL make everything that much louder, which is probably enough to skew the perception in an A/B attempt.
 
ashcat_lt said:
If anything that could possibly come out of your interface actually damages your ears, you’re monitoring WAY too loud to begin with.
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Not always. It just takes that one time...of course I was exaggerating about actually blowing your ears out, but....Disengaging the parent track can make a child track's volume suddenly jump...by a LOT. It has zero to do with "monitoring too loud". An inadvertent 18db volume spike is really loud even at a low monitoring volume, and can be quite jarring when you're not expecting it. I was just reminding the OP, who is an admitted newbie, what to watch out for.
 
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When I use the folder tracks, there's usually only 3-5dB drop. I don't try to make huge adjustments with them. It's more of an organizational feature, with the added advantage that you can control a bunch tracks equally at the same time. It's perfect for something like drums or maybe a brass section where you might have 3, 5 or 7 tracks in a group that need to be treated as a "single track".

Background vocals are another good place. Set the balance for the voices and bring them up when you need them.
 
TalismanRich said:
When I use the folder tracks, there's usually only 3-5dB drop.
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That's great. Everyone mixes differently. I tend to mix a lot lower than most people. I sometimes have a folder down at -10, -12 or even -18. There's no right or wrong when it comes to that. I was just trying to make the OP aware of what MIGHT happen depending on where his levels are. :)
 
I don't' know Reaper but in Logic "folders" are created by simply using a bus/aux kind-of behind the curtain, and the defaults generally work, but if you're inputs to the folder flow via a *mono* bus, or the aux itself is mono, and not stereo, then you'll lose the pan settings in the folder's (i.e., aux) input (tracks). So, short answer, check your routing (and maybe pan knob settings).
 
@keith.rogers - Reaper has none of that. There’s no auxes and no buses. Just tracks. Any track can send to (/receive from) any other track. By default every track automatically sends to it parent. If there is no folder, that parent is the master. If there is a folder, that folder track is parent to all the tracks within it. There is also no such thing as a mono track or bus. Tracks can have multiple parallel channels, but always in pairs. Regular sends can specify single channels for source and/or destination, but the parent send is again always in pairs. Panning generally just flows right on up to the parent, and unless that parent track does something weird (and it would kind of have to be “on purpose”), that panning should be preserved all the way to the output. OP either misunderstood what they were seeing/hearing or accidentally did something “on purpose” to mess up the path through the folder parent.
 
..and just to expand on that, REAPER doesn't even really have "Audio", "Midi", or "Video" tracks. You can have all 3 on the same track.
 
Serendipity Records said:
Would love to hear some of your music sometime! No pressure :)
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I have recorded a song (my first recording and not a song I have written) simply to learn as much as possible about Reaper. Can you kindly indicate the nature of your interest e.g. if you are merely curious and wish for us to help each other I am quite happy to send you a copy. Your name, however, suggests that you may be in the music promotion business in which case I believe that I will need a few new songs. Kindly let me know. Also, if we do communicate re actual songs I would naturally prefer to do so one-to-one i.e. privately to your email. Brian
 
We're all just curious to hear what others are doing with their music. A lot of my personal recordings have been minimal acoustic/vocal stuff, not original. I like harmony, and Reaper gives me an easy means of doing such songs. Stuff like this:

View attachment Find The Cost Of Freedom final Mix B.mp3

Others have been live recordings, and a few are more typical songs with drums, bass, guitars and vocals. I learn by doing. As I go along, I read about tips, and then start to incorporate them into my recordings.
 
BriamJH said:
I have recorded a song (my first recording and not a song I have written) simply to learn as much as possible about Reaper. Can you kindly indicate the nature of your interest e.g. if you are merely curious and wish for us to help each other I am quite happy to send you a copy. Your name, however, suggests that you may be in the music promotion business in which case I believe that I will need a few new songs. Kindly let me know. Also, if we do communicate re actual songs I would naturally prefer to do so one-to-one i.e. privately to your email. Brian
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I'm not currently in the business for any money don't worry :) Just am glad to offer suggestions and hear what other HR members are up to!
Cheers!
 
Not folders, exactly. Here's some info on panning FX like echo and delay. LIke when you hear something full volume on your left, then it repeats and/or fades to the right, then maybe reverses that going back and forth. Pretty cool stuff when done right. This can really fill out vocals and guitar, helping to glue the mix.

 
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