Foerver Ain't A Longtime

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Bucks

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FOREVER AIN’T A LONG TIME...IT’S FOREVER©
Words & Music by
Buck Stewart
© Buck Stewart / Jan. 2004


A 1,000 years is such a longtime
A trip to Jupiter too
Waiting for the pot to boil
Or the sky to lose its blue
But forever ain’t a longtime
It’s forever

Time goes on and on, sometimes it seems to fly
But it can’t catch forever, no need for it to try

Life keeps flowing on thru time
New things to learn and know
Changes ‘round the world
As people come and go
But a longtime is just a longtime
It’s not forever

Things can seem so bleak and sad
Toiling with a heavy load
Waiting for the hurt to mend
Heading down that bumpy road
But it will surely fade far away
In forever

Time goes on and on, sometimes it seems to fly
But forever ain’t an empty dream, nor is it a lie

Pleasant thoughts and anticipations
Make time seem to delay
When we think time’s running out
We feel the need to pray
But He’s offering a lot more than time
He’ll give forever

Time goes on and on, sometimes it seems to fly
But if we have forever, there’s no need to cry

A longtime is just a longtime
It comes an end
A longtime can stop anywhere
Just around the bend
But we have more than a longtime
We have forever

So, I won’t love you for a longtime
No, I won’t love you for a longtime
But forever
 
Thanks Aaron. I'm wondering if the whole thing is tight enough and stays focussed. Appreciate the read and comments.
 
The reason your lryics maybe seem unfocused is becuase every verse says essentialy the same thing. Every verse needs to bring something new to the song and move it along. Conversely, a chorus should keep repeating what the song is about and drive it home (that's why each chorus should have identical lyrics...)

A
www.aaroncheney.com
 
As you can tell, I'm not up on the proper structureof songwriting. A dumb question. Does the chorus always have to be the same. I was (probably mistakenly) trying to move the idea along in the chorus. Is that always a no no? Thanks again for being willing to help.
 
Is this better? Changed the chorus and a few other things. Also what do you think about the ending?



FOREVER AIN’T A LONG TIME...IT’S FOREVER©
Words & Music by
Buck Stewart
© Buck Stewart / Jan. 2004




A 1,000 years is such a longtime
A trip to Jupiter too
Waiting for the pot to boil
Or the sky to lose its blue
But forever ain’t a longtime
It’s forever

Time goes on and on, sometimes it seems to fly
But if we have forever, there’s no need to cry

Life flows on thru time
New things to learn and know
Changes ‘round the world
As people come and go
But a longtime is just a longtime
It’s not forever

Time goes on and on, sometimes it seems to fly
But if we have forever, there’s no need to cry

Things can seem so bleak and sad
Toiling under a heavy load
Waiting for the hurt to mend
Heading down the road
But it will surely fade far away
In forever

Time goes on and on, sometimes it seems to fly
But if we have forever, there’s no need to cry

Looking forward to the future
Makes time seem to delay
When we think it’s running out
We feel the need to pray
But He’s offering a lot more than time
He’ll give forever

Time goes on and on, sometimes it seems to fly
But if we have forever, there’s no need to cry

A longtime is just a longtime
It comes an end
A longtime can stop anywhere
Just around the bend
But we have much more than a That
We have forever

So, I won’t love you for a longtime
No, I won’t love you for a longtime
But forever
 
Bucks & Aaron,

Not to be confrontational, but it is perfectly acceptable in today's market (at least here in Nashville) to have the choruses different lyrically. However, they still need to be similar enough to each other to be distiguished as choruses. The melody and rhyme scheme should be the same between the choruses and they also should be similarly themed and support the hook, title & premise of the song and drive the point of the song home as Aaron stated.

In fact, it is quite in vogue right now to change one key line (usually before the hook) in each chorus. Again, this is from a Nashville perspective.

Aaron is a good writer and generally, I still think that this is a good "rule" to follow (chorus shouldn't change). I think as a beginning writer, it might be good to go with that premise and work your crafting around that. After awhile, you can learn when/how/why to bend that rule. But what do I know?

I was told this by a pro writer/consultant who I take occasional consulting sessions with. Here are a couple examples of my stuff with this kind of thing going on (I'm not holding myself out as a great writer to learn from, but these are the only examples I can think of off the top of my head).

This one was worked with the songwriting pro and I am in the process of rewriting (so this will undoubtably change), but he quite liked it over all. This is an example of the choruses being quite different. Notice though, that the last two lines of each chorus is EXACTLY the same and contains the hook:

Sins Of My Father

©2003 John K Scott

Verse:

I came sneaking in at 2 AM
Trying not to wake him up
But there he was waiting up again
Half asleep with his half-drunk coffee cup
He asked if I'd been drinking again, I lied
He said, hand me those keys, for the next month you can't drive

Chorus:

He said, Son, there's a lot that you don't know
I guess it's time to tell you now
Then what happened took me by surprise
'Cause I'd never seen him cry like he did that night
The night his soul poured out like water
The sins of my father

Verse:

He said, "You were still a baby
And your Old Man loved his beer
Your Mamma loved your Daddy
He'd stay out late, she'd wait up in fear
I guess that Friday night she had enough
She went to get him, and she dropped you here with us

Chorus:

When they cut back the twisted steel
They found your daddy behind the wheel
With your mamma right there by his side
Man, I'd never seen him cry like he did that night
The night his soul poured out like water
The sins of my father

Bridge:

To that point in my life that was the biggest shock I'd had
I stood and stared at my uncle, who I'd only known as dad
And I wondered why he had to hit me with his hell
And would it really ever have mattered if he'd kept it to himself

Verse:

I got a call from my best friend Ray
That next Friday night
He said, Come on out there's a party
I'll pick you up, we'll be there by nine
I said, I need to stay in and work some things out
I'll catch you Monday, let you know what it's all about

Chorus:

Row fifteen, plot twenty-eight
That’s the one right next to Ray's
And I might have been laid there by his side
Had my Uncle never shared what he did that night
The night his soul poured out like water
The sins of my father


This next one is an example of one line changing in each chorus to highlight and help twist the hook. Again, I worked with the pro on this one and he actually suggested doing this. I just got done rewriting this one (might still tweak it some) and it is on hold and has a good chance of getting cut with an up and coming female artist on an independent label with major distribution. Notice on this one the second to the last line of each chorus is differnent and sets up the hook just a bit differently as it relates to the preceding chorus/bridge:

Daddy's Little Girl
©2003 John K Scott

Verse:

Dear Dad, I'm thinking back to the day you helped me pack
How you'd dry your eyes and try not to let me see
But your tears betrayed the scenes that played in your head
Scenes that starred a younger me
My tears held back what I had to say
So now I need to write what I should have said that day

Chorus:

I need to fly, test my wings
Try a little taste of everything
Out here in this great big world
I might climb mountains, I may cross seas
But I'll always hold a piece of you in me
I may have lost my curls
Still, deep inside I'm daddy's little girl

Verse:

Now I'm slinging plates at a Nashville Waffle House
Chasing dreams by day and tips by night
But I never dreamed it would ever be this hard
I'll give you that one, Dad you were right
There are days I bet we both wish I was home
But you prepared me for this flight for 18 years or so

Chorus:

I need to fly, test my wings
Try a little taste of everything
Out here in this great big world
I might climb mountains, I may cross seas
But I'll always hold a piece of you in me
My wings may be unfurled
Still, deep inside I'm daddy's little girl

Bridge:

I'm sure the world will look and see
A woman on her own
But with your love and wisdom inside of me
I'll never really be alone

Chorus:

I need to fly, test my wings
Try a little taste of everything
Out here in this great big world
I might climb mountains, I may cross seas
But I'll always hold a piece of you in me
Like an oyster holds its pearl
Deep inside I'm daddy's little girl
Yeah I'm daddy's little girl

Like I said, I'm no expert and I think you should take Aaron's advice. Especially as you are starting out. It's good advice. I am just showing you a little bending of the rules above and hopefully explained a bit WHY I did it.

You can actually hear "Sins of My Father" (guitar/vocal work track) on my site if you wish. I took "Daddy's Little Girl" down since it's in play right now.

Good luck & I hope this novel is useful!!! :eek:
 
Yes, I completely agree, but I think that's something you sort of graduate to once you've learned the ropes a little. So many guys like to start out "breakin' the rules" because it sounds so dangerous...:rolleyes: Another very common way that words in a chorus change is tense. For example, if the story begins with the anticipation of something and ends with it finally happening, the tense in the chorus would have to change to be appropriate. That's a little different than what you're talking about though.

And BTW, I'm a little jealous. I doubt there's a songwriting coach within a hundred miles of me. There is one songwriter's association here in Seattle, but we all know my experience there...

So clue me in; does he charge you for a monthly consultation or something like that?

I'll be living in Seattle for at least another 6 or 7 years until my youngest graduates. Then maybe I'll pack up and head for Nashville, who knows?

A
www.aaroncheney.com
 
Hey Bucks,

I don't usually comment on lyrics alone. I often miss the point until I hear them with music. But I figured since I took up so much space in your thread I owed you a look :D.

I like the idea you have going here. I'm a sucker for songs that relate the everyday to the spiritual. One of the first "decent" songs I wrote does this as well. It's called "The Gift".

First off. I need to know what your purpose in writing is. Are you writing for your own enjoyment? Do you want to pursue it commercially? Will you perform your own songs? Each of these options would have me look at the lyrics slightly differently.

If this were my song in this state, here is what my first inclinations are. I tend to look at things from a view of being commercially viable (can I get a publisher interested in the song). From this point of view:

1. This song looks way too long at this point. It’s going to be difficult to get 5 verses & choruses and a tag all completed (depending on tempo) in 3-4 minutes. Not impossible. But difficult. If you are writing for your own enjoyment, this doesn’t matter. If you are writing as a performer, it’s somewhere in the middle (you don’t want the audience to get board and leave in the middle of your 6 minute song :D)

2. I feel like you are missing the point of the song in your chorus. Usually (not always) the lyrical hook of the song appears in the chorus and that usually (not always) is the title of the song. Here is a little exercise to try when you write something. I use this all the time (although really formalized this). What is your hook? Write it down. Next, what is your premise? In other words, what is this song about? This should be no more than one or two (max) sentences. Kind of like a movie summary on the back of the DVD, but shorter. You are describing a 3-4 minute song, not a 2 hour epic drama :D. Here is an example (I’ll use Daddy’s Little Girl from above).

Hook: Daddy’s little girl

Premise: A girl moving away from home to chase her dreams realizes that life is tougher than she thought, but also realizes that her father prepared her for her journey and that part of her will always be daddy’s little girl.

I summarized the song in one sentence. The goal of this exercise then is to focus your writing on the “nut” of the song. Every line in every verse and chorus should support this premise. For example I wouldn’t expect to be hearing about space aliens in a song about a 1963 Mustang :D. If you use “Daddy’s Little Girl” as an example, notice I didn’t introduce any extraneous characters, like Mom? :D. Mom wasn’t important to the message of the song IMO. That’s just an example.

Another way to focus your song is to determine an outline for your song. What do you want to say and where should you say it. This can give you a rough outline on what verses, bridges etc you need. I call this a storyboard, but I’m sure that’s not in any songwriting books.

3. Keep in mind also that your verses should really set up the chorus. This is especially important in the transition from the first verse to the chorus. The first chorus should complete the first verse. Together they should make one complete contiguous thought. In your lyric here, this transition seems a bit disjointed to me. The line in the chorus that is really in a power position IMO is ”But if we have forever, there’s no need to cry”. There doesn’t seem to be anything in the first verse that sets that up. Besides, here is another rule that you can break some day LOL… The lyrical hook should be in the chorus and in a power position. There are some songs that don’t do this, but I’ll bet 99% of the popular songs out there do. There is a reason for this. Listeners expect to hear it there.


Well, that’s just a few things I noticed. I’m no pro. I’m just another hacker that’s trying to get better at this art and craft. I’m just sharing a few things I picked up along the way so far.

Good luck & keep on writing!!!
 
Hi Aaron,

Yeah...there are some perks to living here :D. Once my daughter starts school and we catch up on the debt a little (we’ve been paying a nanny approx. $22,000 a year for child care) I plan on taking even more advantage of these benefits.

I am working with Rick Beresford here in town. He’s great. He charges $50 for an hour consultation. Pay as you go. In fact he says if you don’t get anything out of it, don’t pay him LOL…that has been not even close to the case so far. He has really helped me think around some things in the two sessions I’ve had with him so far. Thinking of a third here soon. There are many others that do this in town too.

It’s kind of funny, the first consult was on “Sins of My Father”. He listened a few times and said, “Part of me doesn’t want you to change a thing.” An hour and a half later the other part of him had my lyric sheet marked up pretty heavily (although the main improvement he thought could be in the melody and arrangement). He is mind bogglingly knowledgeable. At least to this dummy :D.

Hey…it would be cool if you moved here :D. Maybe we can write together somewhere down the road before then though if you would be so inclined. ;) :D. I’m pretty stacked up with co-writes right now, but maybe in a few months or so if you are interested. I’ve done a couple over the internet (with Crawdad) and they went quite well. Slow…but well.

Take care my friend ;)
 
Jagular
Thanks for your comments and the read. As far as my intent, that's still evolving. Ofcourse I'd love to hear something I did on the radio. Who woulden't? But I'm just getting started and so I really appreciate your help. Thanks again
 
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