flat-voice syndrome?

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malgovert

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is there a name for the syndrome which occurs when a person has sung reasonably well for his/her whole life, never really questioning or wondering about his/her abilities in that field, until placed in front of a mic, wearing a set of headphones, in a studio, at which point the voice comes out flat for the first time, and the second, and the third... and after that it never seems to sound quite the same again?

And is there a cure?

Cheers - Malgo.
 
I love it!!!

I used to host Karaoke. People were always saying how good of a singer I was. I have heard myself on tape, and know better. :)

Intonation takes a lot of practice. You HAVE to be able to hear yourself back, and work towards improvements. Sad to say, but I have clients who still think their intonation is good, and it hasn't improved much at all with a lot of recording time under their belt.

Ed
 
WOW !!

Ed,

I can understand you admiting that youre not a great singer, but to admit to hosting Karaoke?

You have some guts !!!
 
Yo Malgo:

If I had to make a living singing, I'd be out there driving a camel taxi where you work.

However, I've found that, with practice, and when you're in the right key, and when all the buttons work right on the recorder, I can come up with a relatively nice vocal. But, it does take practice.

Some people are naturally gifted with a very keen ear; others, even Sammy Davis Jr., could go flat when the time wasn't right. I heard him do that on a Chicago DJ show, way back, yeah, I know I'm dating myself, when he tried to sing one of his tunes; he started out and stopped and said to someone off camera, "Am I flat?" So, if a pro can do that, I wouldn't worry too much. Keep singing and recording until you get it right.

You can't teach someone to write unless that person writes and writes and writes some more under a stress situation.

So, to sing, [weird analogy] you need to sing and sing and sing again until you get it right IN TUNE.

Green Hornet
 
Hehe...I was a dirty young man Shailat!

Karaoke host's could get laid a lot easier then than anybody in the early 90's Shailat. I did the job for the fringe benefits....:)

Ed
 
Didn't I read a post somewhere on this BB before about how when we listen to things through headphones we get a false representation of pitch or something? So singers often end up flat? I could have sworn I saw something along those lines... damn wish I could remember more. Something about frequency response?

oh I dunno
its nearly 3am

leave me alone
 
I hope they don't mind me printing this in full, but there ya go!

THE KEY TO GETTING A GOOD RECORDED VOCAL

BY ROBERT DENNIS

ADMINISTRATOR, RECORDING INSTITUTE OF DETROIT

The Key:

Vocals sound good only when they are “in tune.” If a singer is ”flat” (or sharp) the vocal performance doesn’t sound as good and can even sound poorly recorded.

The Problem:

A singer sings in tune when he/she gets a good “pitch reference.” The ears, however, are not always correctly “hearing” the pitch.

When music is played loud, a person hears the bass frequencies flat. How Flat? A lot flat - as much as the pitch difference of the next key on the piano and even more. In recording the singer hears the band through headphones. If these headphones are loud and bass-heavy, the singer will try to “tune” to what he/she hears and usually sing flat.

Its interesting to observe that if a singer is off during recording, it is usually because they are flat - not sharp.

The Solution:

The solution is simple. If the singer sings flat, reduce the headphone volume and reduce the amount of bass-frequencies in the headphones. This may require a little “training” for the singer to get used to lower volumes and with less bass than they want in the headphones.

When singers insist on loud bassy headphones and always sing flat, I will suggest an experiment:

1. Have the singer sing a verse with the headphones loud and bassy.

2. Have the singer sing the same verse on with the headphones much lower and with less bass. Record this second performance on a different track.

3. Without telling the singer which track is which, play each track with the music and ask which one the singer likes best. They will always choose the track done with the lower-volume, reduced bass headphone mix.

Other Tips:

When two instruments are supposed to be playing the same pitch but one is out-of-tune, there is a “beating” that occurs. This beating sounds like the volume increasing and decreasing regularly. When the instruments are close to the same pitch this beating slows down and when they are exactly in pitch this beating stops. Hearing this beating is a large part how we hear that something is out-of tune.

Adding reverberation “covers” up the beating that occurs when two instruments (or a vocal and instruments) are out-of-tune with each other. Everyone likes reverb on the vocal. If you, however, have a lot of reverb on the vocal when a singer is trying to sing, it will be harder for the singer to hear he/she is off pitch. As a result, vocals are recorded best with little or no reverb in the headphone mix.

Unusual Circumstances:

Sometimes singers have become accustomed to singing in tune with loud music playing. This kind of thing happens to singers that have done a lot of live performances where the music is very loud on the stage. Over years, the singer has learned to sing at the correct pitch with loud stage volumes. With a singer like this, low-volume headphone can cause the singer to sing sharp. Instances of this are rare - but they do occur.

Conclusion:

Two rules to record vocals by:

1. If the singer is having problems with intonation (being in tune), use different headphones volumes - usually turn down the volume and turn down the bass.

2. Use the minimum amount of reverb possible when doing vocal recordings.


COPYRIGHT 1998, Recording Institute Of Detroit - All Rights Reserved
 
Another thing to try...

I like to leave one ear of the headphones off, or leave the headphones "half on" my ears. That can lead to bleed-over from the phones, but it helps me sing a little less out of tune if I can hear the room sound I'm projecting. Actually, I often do that no matter what instrument I'm tracking. I can hear the nuances (i.e., just how bad I'm screwing up :D) a lot better.
 
Thanx for all the tips and tricks - some useful stuff there. yeah i had an idea it might be something to do with the phones - it's a new thing to me wearing them whereas singing itself is not - also they are only cheapo phones I think, although they are made by fostex - they came with a portastudio i once bought but was never able to use (but that's another story). Also it's very weird for me not playing (acoustic guitar) and singing at the same time but just singing over the prerecorded track - it seems much easier to sing in tune without phones and with the real live rhythm and tones of the instrument to accompany. it's a whole different skill in the end I guess - so practice and more practice must go along with all the tips and tricks. i saw sarah maclaghlan on video using only one phone when singing in the studio and I did wonder why at the time... anyway i will try them all out and see what happens...

another thing I have found is playing and singing 'live' - I can do practically any song and hit practically any note(within reason) - not so in this new situation - I sometimes feel as though i am wrestling with it rather than blending into it. so i wonder also if there is a sense of 'recording anxiety' - the sense that - even though you know you *can* have another go at it - you also know that there's no reason why you shouldn't get it right first time - and that you don't *want* to spend the whole day doing it even though you can - and that you are going to make yourself really angry if you keep playing it back and it still sounds crap... - and end up convinced that you are never gonna be able to sing it right again - and what was supposed to be a fun day is now completely ruined, along with the rest of your life... well ok it's not that bad -but I do find that my singing is often best when i forget that I am singing, when i stop *trying* to sing and just do it, as they say...

Cheers - Malgo
 
Two are better

If you've got a patient friend,you might want to try getting their assistance with the button pushing and rewinding etc. so that you don't get too tense about the singing part.Or failing that,some machines can be set to go into record mode automatically at a predetermined spot,this may help also.'Nuther thing,take frequent breaks and even leave the room and walk outside or something if it's not flowing.
 
Interesting tip with the "low volume, low bass" thingy.
I have also heard that it gets easier to be in tune if you have reverb on the voice that you feed to the headphones. You might want to try that also.
 
Yo Regebro & Malgo: [sounds like a band name]

I have always used reverb into the headset when doing stuff or when working with a canary or Vulture.

Makes the singer feel the voice is marvelous and can help create a good cut.

Green Hornet
 
Great stuff - i feel better already - low bass, low volume, reverb (but not too much) headphones half on/half off, friends to help me out (ooer!) and plenty of practice - think I'll go out and celebrate before I start... Where can I get hold of a good karaoke setup? :D Cheers - Malgo
 
Something that I have tried and works rather well is to have the singer not use headphones at all. Bring him/her into the control room, knock the monitors out of phase then let the singer go at it. Place the monitors back in phase when you are ready to listen. Your mix will still be intact because all the music that was recorded along with the vocals is out of phase and will be cancelled.

good luck,
jamie
 
ok i know this basically doesnthave much to do with this thread. but both my parents are slovenian so i speak that language. and phoneticall y malgovert is bad spoken in slovenian. its strange the subtleties that ties in with your topic!
 
camus said:

2. Use the minimum amount of reverb possible when doing vocal recordings.

Has anyone ever successfully tried turning down reverb in a singer's headphone mix without getting beat-up on by the talent????

:) :) :)
 
Do some ear training

I was a little drunk when I first posted.

Bass sounds flat when played loud???? Are you kidding? What does the volume have to do with it? I could understand doppler effect or something if you were moving, but volume affecting pitch? I've never heard of that.

If you're having trouble singing in tune I think the best thing for you to do is some ear training. People with good ears almost always have good intonation, even if they have shitty voices.

David L. Burge's Relative Pitch course is pretty good (the one you used to see in all the guitar magazines). You can do it by yourself and it's pretty thorough (spelling?). I used to have somewhat sloppy intonation but once I started doing this course there was a big improvement. You can also find computer programs for ear training. Having a good ear is pretty important (especially for vocalists) and ear training can help alot in almost all areas of music. Your intonation will improve, you will be able to find harmonies more easily, picking out chords of songs will be easier, improvement of improvisational skills, etc.

This may be a relatively slow way to get a singer to sing in tune -- I mean, you won't be able to send him home from the studio and have him come back the next day with great intonation. But, this will solve the problem from the root of the cause (does that make sense? I'm not very articulate when hungover). You should see(hear) significant improvement in about a month if the singer practices everyday.

[Edited by MrLip on 09-02-2000 at 22:36]
 
how to put reverb???

thanks guys for the advice - and kristian for the interesting linguistic insight... I thought I'd try the reverb thing - till I realised I don't know HOW to put reverb on the voice going into the recording - what to experts and forces of nature is to me nothing short of a riddle - it seems that if i set up the external effects unit between mic, mixer and souncard, then it records as a 'reverbed voice' and cannot be altered, and if I put the cakewalk reverb on then I can't hear the reverb when i am actually singing - just when i play it back. What am I missing here? I'm sure it's so simple! Malgo
 
You're not missing anything... that's how it goes, sometimes. I monitor through the mixer "on the way in", so any plug-in effects aren't heard until playback. It sounds like you're doing something similar.

My workaround is to run the outboard reverb to an aux buss on the mixer. That way I can hear some sort of reverb while singing, but I'm only recording the mixer channel's direct out... without the reverb. I don't get to hear the exact same reverb as what I'll use with a plug-in, but it's enough to have something there for monitoring.
 
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