flat top < $2000 ?

2

2low

New member
Hi All,

My main ax is bass. I want to get a bit more serious about my recording hobby. I believe you can't get decent recorded sounds without a great sound source.

I have an old Yamaha 336 acoustic guitar and i want to upgrade...there are a LOT of guitar builders out there. Any suggestions on a versatile flat top acoustic for under $2,000? The most important criteria is that it records nicely...a good balanced sound.

I know from playing bass that some instruments sound great when solo but just can not find a place in an overall mix. I play in a variety of styles but most is focused in the pop/blues/folk/ethnic worlds (no straight jazz or classical).

Let me add that new or used is okay and the $2000 figure is the street price...its okay if the list price is higher.

Thanks for your help.

Bob
 
You'll find many, many guitars < $2,000 that record well. And you'll get a lot of opinions. I suggest staying away from dreadnaughts--look at OM models or Grand Concert models.

Here's what I chose:
http://www.webberguitars.com/roseomc.html

For handmade guitars, I think Webber might be the best value out there..
 
I'll put in my usual word for Larivee.

And FYI you dont need to spend that much. Most acoustic guitars mfgs have great sounding models for around a grand. The more expensive models just have fancier trim and finishes. Some will have more rare woods if you like their sound.

I love my Larivee D-O3. It's similliar to the Taylors in that they are a lot brighter and more distinct than the Martins.

If you want a real showpiece guitar and want to spend some cash check out the Breedlove's.
 
I recently purchased a Taylor 314, and me an that guitar have already formed quite a close relationship. I love it, and it loves the bills I pay to keep it. Sounds amazing, records well, and was tagged at $1069 sans case, I picked it up for $850 with a case, having the guy who sold it to me be the bassist in my band. It's a grand auditorium, and I'd recomend it to anyone and everyone who wants a quality instrument.

Jake
 
Taylors and Larrivees are great guitars (I've owned two Larrivees: D03, D05E). Larrivees and Taylors are definitely similar in sound and feel. But neither Taylor nor Larrivee are handmade--if that makes a difference to you. I does to me. When I was able to move up, I looked at handmade brands.

I mention Webbers because they are not as well known as Breedlove, Goodall, Santa Cruz, Colllings, Bourgeois, Froggy Bottom, Lowden, Omega, and others, and for that reason they do not command as high of a price, but they are HAND MADE. David Webber and one assistant make only about 100 guitars per year. I had my choice of about four C. Fox, three Breedlove, and one Bourgeois guitar that were in my price range ($1,600)--and a lot of other Taylors, Larrivees, Martins, etc., but for me the Webber blew them all away. I just kept going back to it.

Regarding dreadnaughts, they are difficult to record. They sound great on stage because they project a lot of midrange and bass (volume). But those are the same traits that make them a bear to record--especially if you are close micing or playing fingerstyle. I'm not saying you can't get a good sound, I'm just saying it's difficult and you often have to use eq. Of course, every guitar is different.

Another thing about dreadnaughts, if you play fingerstyle, is that in general they do not have the clarity, balance, or note separation of, say, an orchestra or grand concert model. Of course, if you mainly want a guitar for ballsy strummed acoustic tracks or bluegrass flatpicking a dreadnaught may be exactly what the doctor ordered.
 
I agree with Tdukex - Taylor and Larrivee are excellent guitars, perhaps the BMW of acoustics - but for $2,000 you can get into the Rolls-Royces etc.
I also agree that a dreadnaught is not the best way to go. Get a small bodied finger style guitar, hand built by someone who knows what they're doing.

Collings 000-2H will absolutely do the job for you.
Mine is the finest guitar I've ever heard (which is why I bought it), and I was a dealer of vintage instruments for five + years and listened to and played hundreds of great and not so great guitars. I spent almost a year looking for 'my finger style acoustic' and at the time I was traveling a lot, so went to Mandolin Bros in Staten Island, McCabe's in LA, Gruhns in Nashville plus about twenty other stores in various cities around the country and in London and Birmingham, England.

There are several other fine makers out there.

Breedlove, Olson, Goodall, Lowden, Santa Cruz and of course, old Martins are all contenders. I also played a killer Gibson J-50 at Southworths in Bethesda, but it was so thrashed I couldn't get beyond it's condition (and I mean thrashed!).

One little known make that I loved, but never bought one (the don't need a guitar now/don't have the money now thing) is Everett. I played one at the Podium in St. Paul MN and it absolutely killed everything in the store except a Collings DS-2 which cost almost $1,000 more. It was so 'live' it was great.

Good luck,

foo
 
Santa Cruz offers several flat tops in that price range and you get for more bang and tone for the buck. Remember flat tops are all about tone, listen to some Tony Rice stuff to get the Idea....And of course C.F. Martin is the old stand by, but for many good reasons. $2000 should get your a very nice HD18 or even a HD-18V (vintage re-issue) brand new, I bet you can find a few used Martins in that price range that will kick ass. Just stay away from Matins built in the mid 70's. A used flat top that was played often will have far better tone than a new one off the shelf because the grain has opened and all the bracing and glue has stablized. A good thing to look for in a used/vintage flattop is a slight hump between the bottom of the bridge and butt of the guitar that us Carolina mountian boy blugrass pickers call a belly. You will have to play and compare many many guitars to find one that is what your looking for. Another plus to buying a martin now---they're not getting cheaper. The recording part of the equation when it comes to flattops is almost secondary. Find one that sounds great live for the amount of money you can afford. If the guitar has good tone, it will transfer to your recordings with the right equipment and settings. You can't record a $2000 flat top with a $90 Sm57 and expect it to be perfect... you will need a higher end mic as well.
 
I disagree with staying away from dreadnaughts entirely. A grand concert is usually not a good strumming guitar/rythym guitar because of it's small size. They are very, very good for fingerstyle playing and that's why they are popular, but if your playing is mostly strumming chords then definitely look at dreadnaughts, grand concerts, and maybe even jumbos.

Read the guitar magazines and find out what the pros are using in Nashville and Los Angeles. It doesn't sound to me that they are shying away from recording with ANY body style, they are using the style of guitar that fits their playing style and then letting the engineers determine how best to mike it.

I will admit that a "boomy" sounding guitar with too much bass is difficult to record well, but half the dreadnaughts I've played don't have that problem. A lot of the guitars mentioned can be hard to find. I live in a big city (San Diego, CA) and we don't get anything besides the usual Martins, Taylors (made here), Yamaha, Larivee, and Takamine. I guess I'll have to travel if I ever want to play the smaller brand names.

My advice: play everything you can get your hands on and decide for yourself. Only you know what sounds good to you, and other peoples opinions can cloud your good judgement.
 
Wide Awake, you should check out Buffalo Brothers guitars in Carlsbad--only about 40 minutes away from you, and they have over 1,500 acoustic guitars in stock. You name it they got it. The good stuff. One thing, in the last year they started roping off the room where they keep the really high-end stuff like Collings, Santa Cruz, etc. because too many of the guitars got dinged and scratched by careless looky-loos. I don't blame the owners. As a small partnership they cannot afford to absorb the damage.

Anyway, here's their link: http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/

They also have a lifetime 100% trade-up policy that I've used twice. Over a period of five years I've gone from a $700 Larrivee D03 to a $1,000 Larrivee D05-E to a $1,600 Webber OM. Next step up I'll actually be able to afford that Santa Cruz I've always wanted.
 
I did not know Buffalo Brothers was a local store, I will definitely check them out. Thanks tdukex. I live in Scripps Ranch and I was only aware of the usual Guitar Centers, Guitar Trader, ect.
 
Wood!

I'd like to jump in here and add something similar to what I said when the last thread like this was posted.

Remember wood! When you are in to the $1500-2000 guitars the tonal qualities will be dependent on both shape/size and choice of woods. To my ear a cedar top is warmer then spruce, a maple body gives a brighter sound with less sustain then rosewood, etc... I advise that if you can't hear and appreciate these differences that you hold off on buying a high end guitar (unless of course $1500-$2000 is pocket change to you)

I have a Taylor 714 which I love, the 14s are Auditorium size, so it isn't as boomy as a dreadnaught, but still loud enough to strum. I second all of the brands suggested above, just play a wide range of guitars find that sound that you love.
 
It must be flattop envy.....lol. I don't understant the prejudice against them either. As for not recording well---you guys must not listen to bluegrass, Oh well your loss. Ever head of Tony rice? I dare any one to say his Martin dreadnaught doesn't record well. What about Doc Watson? He's been flatpickin and using fingerstyle on old flattop dreadnaughts for decades. Sometimes somebody will say something, somebody else hears it, thinks is sounds like a good hard fact, tells their buddy and pretty soon its the gospel truth.

Yes different bodyshapes have different tone.
Yes tonal quality of the wood effects the tone.
Yes there are differences from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Yes one type guitar may suit your buddy better than you.

But lets get back to the man's question, What is a good flat top accoustic to buy for $2000?

For $2000, stay with the basic formula that has made dreadnaughts the most widely used/built and veristale guitar in the world.

Spruce or Sitka top.
Brazilian for the back and sides
Quality tuners-it has to stay in tune or it worthless
Craftsmanship
Strong bracing - X bracing preferred
Playability- action ,neck size
Good tone
Volume
Good Tone
Range
and Good Tone

You CAN find these qualities for the price you want to pay. You WILL have to play and compare many guitars to find the one that's your guitar. Abolone, layered binding, curley maple, custom inlay, all of that crap is irrelevent to what makes a good flattop and they drive the price up. Stick with the basics, and the well known brands like CF Martin, Santa Cruz, Bourgoius, and Lerivee and you'll do fine. Makes like Collins and other order built companies are out of that price range. Go to some of the web site the builders have. Lots of good info on what makes a guitar a good guitar. I highly recomend Santa Cruz's site.
 
I never said dreadnaughts "are no good for recording." Read my posts. Comprehend them.

He said he wanted a guitar that "records nicely." I suggested he stay away from dreadnaughts because they are "difficult to record," and that is not only my opinion but the opinion of many, many pros and home recordists, alike.

Think about it. There are reasons why guitar makers build different guitar bodies and why players seek different guitar bodies for different applications. If dreadnaughts excelled at every application there would be no demand for other body styles. Obviously, that is not the case.

Again, I never said dreadnaughts "are no good for recording." I'm just saying there are better choices for a "studio" guitar.
 
Nailhead said:
I don't understant the prejudice against them either. As for not recording well---you guys must not listen to bluegrass, Oh well your loss. Ever head of Tony rice? I dare any one to say his Martin dreadnaught doesn't record well.
Click to expand...

Nailhead. Do me the honor of not putting words in my mouth. ;)

This is what I said: "I'm not saying you can't get a good sound, I'm just saying it's difficult and you often have to use eq. Of course, every guitar is different...Of course, if you mainly want a guitar for ballsy strummed acoustic tracks or bluegrass flatpicking a dreadnaught may be exactly what the doctor ordered."

And, yes, I do listen to Tony Rice and Bluegrass, and if I was recording that style of music I would be using a dreadnaught.
 
Calm down gentlemen - there is room for all guitars in the control room.

2lows question stated 'versatile flat top acoustic' - 'nice balanced sound' - 'pop/blues/folk/ethnic'

I stand by my recommendation for a smaller bodied fingerstyle guitar.

. . . and Nailhead, I haven't seen a Brazilian (I'm assuming you mean rosewood) dreadnaught for < $2,000 since about 1990.

Even a late 60s D-28 in moderate condition will run you $2,800 or more these days.

:(

foo
 
philboyd studge said:
tdukex
Thanks for the info on Buffalo Bros., gotta check out the store next trip to the coast.
Click to expand...

philboyd studge, be prepared to spend a few hours there. It is like an opium den for acoustic guitars--very intoxicating.:cool:
 
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