first time with Waves.. (cover take 2)

[B.SABBATH]

hey guys, here's that Seal tune again 'crazy'.. I resang it with a bit more tension, and tried to juice it up with Waves.. I still have no idea how to use it, so I have two questions if you would..

1 - Are the vocals off? (be brutal with your honesty please)

2 - Does it sound like I squashed the life out of this?


I always complain about other people over doing it with the normalizing etc. Am I a hypocrite?

Tell me if the vocals suck please..


thanks as always if you bother..

'crazy' www.nowhereradio.com/samij/singles

 

[mixmkr]

Sammy....I'll tell you one thing from personal experience. When I first got my Waves bundle...I literally screwed the sound up on everything. I "L1" maximized everything to death (because I could...and it sounded great on phones). But after a couple months passed...I realized I really "ruined" a lot of mixes because I was tweaking waaaaaay to much. Everything...the Ren compressor...Maax bass....all of it... However... The Waves stuff is some HEAVY stuff, and I think extreeeeeemly top notch stuff. But....a LITTLE goes a looooong way. Use it sparingly, and I think you will come to agree, if you don't already. On the L1, for instance...if your are occasionally seeing some limiting/compression...but NOT constantly, I think you'll find that to be a good starting point. For a solid mix, the preset "16 bit mastering"...or whatever it is called, sets the threshold at around -3....and that IS a good starting point.

on this tune...I'm not sure, because the dang thing is buffering so much for some reason. But, it sounds like the vocals ARE up, but the punch is not as much as it could be with the music. Kudos on the "up" vocals...but I think it IS easy to squash a mix. You might have done a "little" too much on this. I think you'll really notice it in a month or so...

 

[fenderlikingood]

downloading................................................................................
............................................................. .................................... ........................................<<why did i write that?? hmmm, alright.
listening, damn!! nice to hear it without the flu, influencing the vox! .........the devil say's "KRAZY!!" oh, i like that. nice harmonies, i think harmony part should come up in the chorus, cause they sound damn good!!! no........the vox does not suck!!
damn!!!! the break at about 2:32, wtf is that?? the synth bass sounding thingy?? what a cool fuckin sound!! man, i like everthing about this. thats what im talkem bout!!!


thank's man

peace

rick

 

[B.SABBATH]

cool.. yeah mix, I just got the whole Waves Renaissance complete deal, and I found out the L1 and L2 are just for a 14 day trial.. I figured I wouldn't even use the L1 or L2 because I didnt want to get used to them, so I just used the R -1 compressor with a limiter, and did some e.q. stuff.. I tweaked a preset or two.. It's so hard to tell because it's louder than the original, so it seems like it would be better, but you can't turn it as loud because it distorts quicker.. I have been so frustrated trying to get things a little louder.. Not crazy loud, but it seems my tunes always come in lower when they come in after most songs around here, and commercial CD's.. It's very confusing, but I guess I have nothing better to do.. I have to tell you though, the new L2 Ultra Maximizer kicks some serious ass.. I found out it costs $800 if I want to own it.. I guess I'll try to get better with the R - compressor.. It seems to be a good one.. thanks for the quick response bud..

 

[B.SABBATH]

hey fender, you posted at the same time.. the sound @ 2:32 is from a Roland XP-30.. I thought it sounded kinda trippy so I used it.. I'm glad you think it sounds better man.. I'm going to be getting a new mic soon and I think that will make a big difference.. I bet your thinking I should have screamed the whole song.. I was thinking that when I listened back to it just now.. I am suprised to hear someone think the vocals should be louder.. damn.. I thought they were at an offensive volume as it is.. I will look into it..

Thanks a lot fenderkickingood!

 

[fenderlikingood]

no, man......the vox are sitting great over here!! im talking about the backing track?? harmony, the one that sound's like it's up an octave?? (im a technological dictionary)

i love it!!

peace

rick

 

[chrisharris]

Love this tune. I ran it through the "Sonic Maximizer" for my own personal enjoyment, and it brought the kick forward a ton.

You asked specifically about vox...the only two places I heard any problems were:

@2:36 "In a world full of PEple only some want to fly, the italicized parts are sharp.

@:05 seconds - "A man decides after 70 yeARS" - Same deal. This one's a little more noticeable b/c it's right at the beginning, and I could swear it sounded that way in the first version too.

Man, I love what you've done with this song...that thunder effect...wow.

Bye

 

[SLuiCe]

Ya man, while it sounds pretty good, it doesn't sound as meaty as you usually do. Like everything is maxed out or something. The highs are screaming on my monitors. But I've been mixing a tune with horns all night, so I don't know how good my ears are right now. But I'll say this about any audio software, and Mix already said it I think, restraint is the key to good results. You remember Crawdad's BBTTE Sonic Maximizer right? There ya go.

I would suggest trying a few masters with Waves, and give them a few days without listening (if that's possible). Then go back and compare. Something about those highs and lows excites us, and we want to excite them right back. We must not give in to the temption. Hear me now! Can I get an amen!

What the hell am I doing here....

Sounds good Sam, but I think somewhere about half way between what you have here and the original is where you'll find peace.

 

[SLuiCe]

Oh by the way, my girlfriend was digging this. She's a fan of yours

 

[badgas]

Sounds good.
I like it.

 

[Kramer]

I think the vocals sound just fine.The whole sound is still a little thinner(hollow) than your mixes usually sound.The low end sounds like it's dominated with Low-Mids to my ears.

It doesnt have the high end gloss that your mixes usually have either.I've tried to master a few of my songs with software similar to waves and I just overdo it like Mixmkr was talking about.....this doesnt sound overprocessed though.......other than the lack of high end sheen and the bottom being low-mid heavy it sounds great.
[my ears could be fried and lying to me so take everything I say with a grain of salt. ]

The vocals sound really good all the way through to me.

I liked your take on this tune.You put your signature on it for sure.

 

[boydrj]

I can't comment on the mix ... plus you already got a lot of comments on that already ...

What I can tell you is that this is a really cool cover of a great song already...You even put in a signature Sam change right around the 3:00 minute mark ...

Great stuff!

 

[CrankyOne]

About 2:50 something sounded wrong between vocals and the backing track. I guess you took some artistic freedom's so I'm thinking it's that. You sing very good and on key, so there's no problem on that. It's just that the vocal has a unnatural sounding effect to it. Like singing in some weird little room. I'm not sure where it comes from. This doesn't sound too squashed at all. The vocals sound louder than they usually do on your songs, and that's a good thing, since you've put the vocals where they belong, and they sound about the right volume to me. Some trippy-heavy version you made. You didn't ruin the song. You made it rock. But be careful when you start using those plugin-effects more. You'll get carried away (not yet, though).

 

[SLuiCe]

Sam, sorry I forgot to comment on the vocals, but I think Cranky nailed it. The singing is very good, but the sound is kinda like it was done in a steel tunnel or something. It's not human, in my humblest of opinions. I prefer your other version. But you gotta experiment. That's what keeps it fresh!

 

[Stratomaster]

Cool-lots of good vocal stuff going on here-though the vocals sound a little seperate from the music to me.... I really like the breakdown with those bass keys-that sounded excellent-great vocal effects throughout the tune---the "crazy's " and the gut wrenching screams really cool-harmonies sounded tight. Is there a bass guitar in there? I could imagine some good pumping bass guit....As far as mix---hmmm-first i thought not enough highs then i changed my mind maybe a little muddy in the mid bass-after about 5 listens I just like it-I have no clue...Ive tried to polish my turds with some of that waves stuff-and it sounds like loud turds-you seem to be doing pretty good with it-though it did sound a little compressed overall....anyway nice job on the cover trevor jr.

 

[jcmm]

This is definately LOUD if that is what you are trying accomplish.
The vocals are really good, and volume wise they sit well in the mix, The panning on the BG vox was done well and adds depth.
One thing about most of your tunes is how the vocals blend with the instruments. Not so much in volume, but the tones and FX you apply keep them in a perfect spot on this tune. Its hard for me to describe, but even when you have the wails and BG vox going at once, they don't overpower the tune. This is something I have been working on with my stuff and I can't quite get the blend that some of the stuff I hear on the BBS has.
At times it seems crunched a bit but for a first effort with powerful stuff like waves I think you are well on your way.
On a side note the cymbals seem low, or too far back in the mix. and the tamborine (I think) sound is a bit snappy. I like a good shake that rattles when I use one but this is another subjective thing that can be ignored. The bottom end is there but I agree that it is tough to pick out if it is a bass, or a synth.
You are a mammoth presence here and I am definately not experienced enough to give any real advice. Sorry if all I can do is Pick!!!

This is a great tune !

I look forward to your further posts!

Joel

 

[Guernica]

Hey Sam,
Im glad that youre still working with this. The vocal parts are a Lock man....... on it and tight. ......they sound great, and anything not completely synced after this point is called "character" ........at least thats what its called in my stuff
......Seriously though.....no fluff...... great vocal performance. I really like the new harmony's that you added. Im not sure about the toneless screams(except for the one at the end.... I like that one), but thats preference.

.....On to the new toys. Im not even completely sure of what waves is supposed to do..... Im comparing the original version of the song that you put up w/ this one, and dont care for the changes as a whole. I think i see where you were going with it but one of the flaws that tagged along was an annoying low mid-range heavy drone over the vocals......(Im thinking thats partially due to over-compression) I liked the cleaner, original vocal effects better (sans nasal schnitzel ). I like the presence that the effect adds....... but it brings in some funky sounding freq.s I dont know enough about waves to offer any help, but I'll be reading the responses of the people here who do.

......I really do love this remake man.........
...........I would keep working on this til it was perfect if I were you......... really good song choice for you, and your interpretation is KILLAH!!

G

 

[participant]

sam-itch,

Yeah... have to agree on the vox FX... is that one o' them Waves reverbs? Might work better as a dry-er vocal, or with some slapback echo... they're kinda "dark" sounding, and G said that... or... if you like the 'verb, maybe just dial the wet/dry mix back a bit?

I'm with ya on these mix issues, man Your mixes do seem to (like mine do) have that low-mid blurriness to them... I think it's the Event 20/20's (which I use, too...) probably crossed with the heavy J-Station work

That "stuckatwork" guy's songs (in the clinic here... just bumped his thread) have EXCELLENT guits without that low-mid blurriness present in both this song and LUMBER... seems like if we could sharpen that area of the spectrum up, we'd both improve

The playing is tight, the sound is tight... I do like the screaming! Excellent interpretation... great sounds all around, as usual...

STILL love that outro... great stuff... just gotta keep learnin new skills and upgradin' when you can. Piece.


Chad

 

[Track Rat]

Sammi, too much. I love the L-1 but I always have to dial it in to where I think it sounds good and then back it off another couple of ticks. As Mix says, a little goes a long way. By the way check out the multiband Opto in the C-4. I REALLYlike this plug on vocals.

 

[Roker1]

why won't it freakin' download