First time recording band and do not know how to mix.

[ex351d]

I wish to record my band that is made of the following elements: Vocals, guitar, bass guitar and drums. I think I have a basic idea how to start recording the band such as basic selection of microphones and microphone placement. I did try this individually. I wish to understand how to mix the band in stereo. I know that this is subjective, but a couple of examples would be perfect so I would have a solid starting point and then start experimenting from there.

I think that I should start by placing the bass guitar, bass drum and snare drum centred. Then place the toms left or right according to the overheads. Any lead guitar solo goes centered. Then I know that it is a good idea to double track guitars and hard pan them.But! If I would use 2 microphones on each track (such as dynamic and condenser), would I place both microphones of the same track on the same side or not.

Furthermore, I have no clue how to add vocals. Where do you double track and how do you add harmonies in general?

 

[mjbphotos]

Two mics on one guitar amp will just yield two track sof the same sound. Panning them hard left and right will just give you a louder guitar centered like a mono track. To double your guitar tracks correctly, record two takes (and change the sound slightly, play a little differently).

 

[rob aylestone]

What did Queen say? I want it all, I want it now?

In real life this amount of knowledge takes a long time, in books many chapters, and in magazines a series over many issues - yet here we can't cover such a huge quantity of in a few posts. You need to try it, not plan it by numbers.

There is no rule that says pan positions must be central - plenty of live recordings pan the sources as they were on stage. Why don't you start in mono and practice balancing levels, then move them to positions once you get better with your ears. You have level, eq, panning, effects to consider - before you get into double tracking and enhancements. Many projects WON'T want double tracking - it's done to make a product better, but sometimes that thicker DT sound isn't needed. Some songs suit double tracked takes panned hard left and right, while others need them in the same space.

Try you ideas and develop something that fits the music. I don't like wide kits, so most of my kits have very little stereo spread. Other people love the tom pan effect where the kit is huge.

 

[Paschalis I.]

I wish to record my band that is made of the following elements: Vocals, guitar, bass guitar and drums. I think I have a basic idea how to start recording the band such as basic selection of microphones and microphone placement. I did try this individually. I wish to understand how to mix the band in stereo. I know that this is subjective, but a couple of examples would be perfect so I would have a solid starting point and then start experimenting from there.

I think that I should start by placing the bass guitar, bass drum and snare drum centred. Then place the toms left or right according to the overheads. Any lead guitar solo goes centered. Then I know that it is a good idea to double track guitars and hard pan them.But! If I would use 2 microphones on each track (such as dynamic and condenser), would I place both microphones of the same track on the same side or not.

Furthermore, I have no clue how to add vocals. Where do you double track and how do you add harmonies in general?

Hi Ex351,

Before I answer your questions let me give you some detail about LCR mixing (left , center, right)
cause I think it will help you understand my sayings below.

If you've heard about LCR mixing it's basically like mixing in some old consoles that only had Left, Center, Right options not percent in between, no "some left or right" stuff(hard panned).
If you think about it, it's true that we have 2 monitors. Center means that the volume is the same on both monitors, hard right only right, hard left only left.

Now with the modern daws that give us a percent of right and left portion, it's basically a "fake" positioning, we still have 2 monitors,
% panning just lowers/highers the volume of the opposite monitors you're panning at and creates the perception of "something along in the middle".

Having said that, if you record with 2 microphones the same take for different coloring you need 2 mono tracks recording at once.

1) If your purpose is for coloring the sound you should pan the 2 mics the same and play with the volume faders to taste.
Then send these 2 layers of sound to a group track and mix there. So you're using 2 layers for ONE single sound - element of a mix.

2) If your purpose is to spread the sound and get width, then pan hard left and hard right (or even along somewhere in the middle) with 2 different takes. 2 mono takes panned hard left - hard right and grouped to a stereo bus = full stereo (correlation 0).

So for example if you want to color your main vocals you can record a couple of takes and pan them the same and play with the volume faders.

If you want harmonies go for different takes again but spread them in the stereo spectrum. Sometimes harmonies can work great at 2 100%left and right and 85% left and right. 4 separate takes. just some food for thought no hard rules here.

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

Two mics on one guitar amp will just yield two track sof the same osund. Panning them hard left and right will just give you a louder guitar centered like a mono track. To double your guitar tracks correctly, record two takes (and change the sound slightly, play a little differently).

You don't need to change the sound or play differently at all to make the tracks behave in stereo. The chance of you getting the waveform down the exact same way on two takes is probably near to 0.0000000000000001%.
But do it anyhow if you want to make a track more interesting.

 

[Paschalis I.]

You don't need to change the sound or play differently at all to make the tracks behave in stereo. The chance of you getting the waveform down the exact same way on two takes is probably near to 0.0000000000000001%.
But do it anyhow if you want to make a track more interesting.

+1

There's no human possible way to get the exact same waveform with different takes.
Unless you're a robot or you duplicate the track which is 100% copy-pasting the waveform itself.

Edit: My bad. Even a robot can't produce the same waveform since the air of the cabinet won't be 100% the same as it was the 1st time /GeekModeOff

 

[Greg_L]

Changing something between takes is a nice thing to do, but not necessary. Mic a different speaker, tweak a knob, use a different amp, play a different guitar. Whatever. All that will work well. But you don't need to do it. Just play it twice and you'll be good to go.

 

[JimmyS1969]

Changing something between takes is a nice thing to do, but not necessary. Mic a different speaker, tweak a knob, use a different amp, play a different guitar. Whatever. All that will work well. But you don't need to do it. Just play it twice and you'll be good to go.

Right!

You can achieve a stereo effect just by using another mic in different placement, another amp or whatever. Same as with an acoustic guitar recorded with two mics.

If you want a really wide stereo image, then playing the part twice and panning them is the way to go.

It really just depends on what you are looking for.

 

[Paschalis I.]

wrong post ignore.

(de-activating my sig in this one cause the post was not helpful and it does not deserve a sig).

 

[ex351d]

Thanks a lot I think I got the answer I was looking for when recording guitars. What method should I try for the vocals?

 

[Greg_L]

Thanks a lot I think I got the answer I was looking for when recording guitars. What method should I try for the vocals?

Try singing them well.

 

[Paschalis I.]

Thanks a lot I think I got the answer I was looking for when recording guitars. What method should I try for the vocals?

1) Good vocals / good takes
2) Good mic/singer positioning
3) Usually less takes are more (I mostly prefer 1 take, unless I need some overdubs for effect/artistic taste)

Vocals can't be post-processed much later, like bass that you can f@ck it up while no one bats an eye, to make it work in the mix.
If you need to use a lot of post-process on vocals, it will be heard, so make your vocalist (or yourself) give his best shot during recording cause you won't be able to fix much during mixing.

Getting it right at the source is true for everything, but especially for vocals, which are the least ones that can handle post-process.

Try singing them well.

This won't suffice. Even if you bring Adele to sing, with a s***y mic and improper mic positioning it won't sound good. "Singing well" is not even a recording method, which is what he'd asked.

 

[JimmyS1969]

1) Good vocals / good takes
2) Good mic/singer positioning
3) Usually less takes are more (I mostly prefer 1 take, unless I need some overdubs for effect/artistic taste)

Vocals can't be post-processed much later, like bass that you can f@ck it up while no one bats an eye, to make it work in the mix.
If you need to use a lot of post-process on vocals, it will be heard, so make your vocalist (or yourself) give his best shot.



This won't suffice. Even if you bring Adele to sing, with a s***y mic and improper mic positioning it won't sound good. "Singing well" is not even a recording method, which is what he'd asked.

Part of this I agree with. Then another part made me think to myself 'what the fuck is he talking about'?

Adele? Sigh...



I am going on vacation. You all figure out what the hell this is all about...

 

[JimmyS1969]

Another note: How do you keep editing yourself and your posts without feeling like you are second guessing yourself?

Just sayin.

Ok, I am on vacation now.

See you all next week!

 

[Paschalis I.]

Another note: How do you keep editing yourself and your posts without feeling like you are second guessing yourself?

Just sayin.

Ok, I am on vacation now.

See you all next week!

Have fun man!

 

[Robus]

For the OP, the first thing you need to decide is what kind of recording you want to make.

If your idea is to create a song demo with a lot of room for arranging and mixing, then you want to build the song up with overdubs. If you are trying to capture the band's live performance, you'll want everybody playing at once.

I can't offer you much advice about recording a complete band because I haven't done much of it. If you want good stereo spread, you'll going to need a lot of mics and some way to isolate them from each other. At minimum you would want two mics on your drum kit, more if you want the snare, kick, and/or toms on their own tracks. Then you'll need a mic for the guitar amp and one more for the bass (or go direct). Then another for your vocalist. You'll also need enough preamps and digital converter inputs to handle all those mics. Takes a lot of equipment and skill--more than I have of either.

If you're going the overdub route, try to get your bass and drums recorded on a take. Then add the guitars and vocals. Much easier.

 

[Greg_L]

This won't suffice. Even if you bring Adele to sing, with a s***y mic and improper mic positioning it won't sound good. "Singing well" is not even a recording method, which is what he'd asked.

Singing well is the most important part of a vocal take. "Well" meaning right for the song. The right performance. A bad take into the best mic ever in the perfect position doesn't mean shit. If you knew anything about recording beyond just spamming your crap blog, you'd know that.

 

[Paschalis I.]

Singing well is the most important part of a vocal take. "Well" meaning right for the song. The right performance. A bad take into the best mic ever in the perfect position doesn't mean shit. If you knew anything about recording beyond just spamming your crap blog, you'd know that.

Said the guy with the 29,865 "yes/no/lol" replies with the SoundCloud and Reverbnation links below them.

By the way you might have missed in my reply that I have placed 1st the vocal performance.
I said that only perfomance alone won't suffice even though it's the most important factor of them all.

But I guess removing stuff from the quote to mislead people and shape the sentences to your needs
is something you have mastered all these years doing it.

You're trying way too hard to make me mad, sorry it won't happen man.
Also, insulting other members is against the forum rules

 

[Greg_L]

Said the guy with the 29,865 "yes/no/lol" replies with the SoundCloud and Reverbnation links below them.

Just about everyone links to their music. Not everyone has an intrusive, oversized banner linking to their spam blog.

By the way you might have missed in my reply that I have placed 1st the vocal performance.
I said that only perfomance alone won't suffice even though it's the most important factor of them all.

You disagreed with me just to disagree, even though you agree. That is trolling. Stop it.

But I guess removing stuff from the quote to mislead people and shape the sentences to your needs
is something you have mastered all these years doing it.

What I've mastered is cutting through the bullshit, even when it comes from those like you that pile it on really thick. I don't need to write a phone-book sized post full of self-righteous nonsense to try to trick people into thinking I'm smart.

You're trying way too hard to make me mad, sorry it won't happen man.
Also, insulting other members is against the forum rules

I'm not trying to make you mad or trying to insult you. Again, I'm cutting through the nonsense. Forums like this one rely on people speaking truth and honesty. Your fix-it-later general mentality is flawed, counterproductive, and flies in the face of sound recording techniques. I will speak against that all the time, every time, and if it gets me "in trouble", so be it. I'm not saying you can't post your verbal vomit, but don't be upset when someone calls you out on it.

 

[Paschalis I.]

Ok whatever just let it go now, let's not change away the topic's subject, not cool. if you want to keep on talking about something personal there are PMs for that. Let's keep this topic clean (too late), but let it go, I don't like you either but I don't go searching your posts to manipulate the quotes. I will continue replying for the OP's subject sorry man, I said what I had to say and people can see who's right. that's enough for me. take care