First Purchases

[momtazwilliams]

Hi there,

I'm about to make my very first software and equipment purchases and was hoping that someone could provide some insight into the decisions I'm thinking of making.

I'm running Vista Home Premium, 32 bit, 3GB RAM, on a Compaq laptop, and I'm very much leaning toward Cubase 5 as far as my DAW. I'm not quite as confident or informed about the issue of sound cards or Audio Interfaces, but I'm currently looking at the M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R USB 2.0.

I know that the DAW relies in no small part on the sound card, but...well, does it then matter if one chooses an "Audio Interface" instead of a "sound card?" In all my research I've yet to pinpoint the difference between the two.

Also, this unit has far more inputs than I could possibly need given the scope of what I'm presently hoping to accomplish. I'd hate to spend extra money on features that I have no use for, but it seems that as the quality of the machine's recordings increases, inevitably so do the number of ins and outs. Is there maybe a better unit available for my situation?

The whole setup would be used primarily for recording rock and electronica. Any help or opinions on any of this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

~Dan

 

[Simbo]

First off Welcome

Second

Also, this unit has far more inputs than I could possibly need given the scope of what I'm presently hoping to accomplish. I'd hate to spend extra money on features that I have no use for, but it seems that as the quality of the machine's recordings increases, inevitably so do the number of ins and outs. Is there maybe a better unit available for my situation?

The whole setup would be used primarily for recording rock and electronica. Any help or opinions on any of this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Well this does not tell us much on what you want to do, if 8 inputs are too much, then maybe get M-Audio fast track pro, it has 2 mic preamps with USB for $200

We need more info.

How many tracks at once do you want to record, 1, 2, 3, ect

Are you planning on play back with recording more tracks.

Or just recording live gigs

Saying that 8 inputs are to much ,but want to record Rock - Electronica is a little vage

 

[momtazwilliams]

Sorry for the lack of info; I'll try to clarify.

I don't see myself needing to record more than a single track at a time, two at the most. I would be doing primarily solo studio work, recording single tracks at a time. As long as the sound quality is good, I'm set.

I apologize if this is still insufficient information. If any other details would help, let me know!

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yo Momtaz! First, an audio interface *is* a soundcard, for all intents and purposes. It replaces the functions of the soundcard for purposes of audio input. Secondly, the decision is kind of already made for you, because by and large, most laptops do not support installed soundcards that are any good, so normally, you go into them by a USB or firewire interface. In your case, it doesn't matter much which one, as the primary purpose of using firewire is that it supports more simultaneous channels. But even as a solo act, make sure you've got at least 2 channels, so you can support stereo recording, which is desirable for lots of acoustic instruments.

OK, you are concerned about sound quality. As far as the recording rig itself goes, there are 2 factors that matter, mostly. The first is the quality of the A-D conversion. The second is the quality of the preamps. Unfortunately, the sad truth is- you get what you pay for. Preamps run from $5 each (a Behringer mixer) to $5000+(Manley- ooh baby!) per channel. A-D conversion runs from about $25 (in a cheap audio interface) to about $5000 or so. Mostly, when you are talking about entry level interfaces, the only difference between $100 and $500 is the number of channels, and the I/O options. Underneath the hood, it's the same preamps and A-D conversion, just more of them, so from your point of view, that's $400 wasted.

The easiest way to bypass the preamps and convertors of a cheap interface is to go into it with a signal that is already digital, either by AES/EBU, or S/PDIF. S/PDIF can be transferred by a coaxial cable (RCA to RCA) or by optical cable (Toslink). I prefer the optical version, because it isn't subject to RFI (radio frequency interference) from radio sources or from proximity to power cables. S/PDIF only supports 2 simultaneous signals, which is fine for you. So- if you have a badass preamp and a badass A-D convertor, you can go right into the S/PDIF input on a cheap interface and get *great* sound quality. In this case, all the interface is doing is providing a S/PDIF input to your hard drive.

Then it simply becomes a matter of how much money you are willing or able to throw at it.
Starting with the Fast Track Pro is fine, because it will give you *some* kind of preamps, *some* kind of A-D conversion, and a S/PDIF input. So you are up and running. It's powered by the USB port, so it makes a good mobile rig in combination with your laptop. If you want to upgrade later, all you need is a better preamp and better A-D conversion with S/PDIF out. The Fast Track only supports coaxial S/PDIF, but that's no big deal.

Of course there are the high-end options, with preamps by Avalon, Pendulum, Chandler, Drawmer, etc., and badass A-D conversion by the likes of Lucid and Apogee, but most likely, when you reach that point, you won't be going into a Fast Track plugged into a laptop. In the intermediate price range, I like the Joemeek twinQ. It's a 2-channel preamp with an optical compressor, onboard EQ, and S/PDIF out. Is it an Avalon pre with an Apogee convertor? No. But it also doesn't cost $7000, and it is a step up from a unit like the Fast Track. So I would say- start with a well made inexpensive unit like the Fast Track, and consider an upgrade when you have a little experience, and you are looking for better pres and better conversion.

Lastly, a little reality check- The room that you are recording in, and the type and placement of mics is likely to have a greater effect on your overall sound than your recording rig, so spend a bunch of time lurking on the studio building and display forum. If you have a good performance, on a good instrument, *in a good room* with the *right* mic (not the *best* mic), in the *right* place, plugged into a cheap cassette recorder, it will sound better than a $5000 preamp and a $5000 convertor recording the fact that your room sucks, and you had the wrong mic in the wrong place, on a cheap instrument played badly. Learn to think about the signal chain from the beginning, not from the end. What you are recordiong *on* is far less important than *what you are recording*. Good Luck.-Richie

 

[momtazwilliams]

Thanks so much, Richard! That was a bunch of information I didn't have before.

My concerns at this point are that the Fast Track Pro doesn't seem to be USB 2.0. I don't know if USB ports are backward compatible, but I don't believe my computer has special inputs for 1.1. Though I'm not entirely certain if that's even a meaningful distinction here. I've also read mixed things about the performance of the Vista drivers, but then, a portion of that mixed bag has been extremely positive. Any thoughts/info on these issues?

I hadn't really put much thought into the studio space itself, so thank you form putting the concept in my head! I'll definitely spy on the forums a bit to get a better sense of what I'm getting myself into. If I wanted to, I could ask plenty more uninformed questions, but for now I think I'll research a bit more and let these new ideas ferment for a bit.

Grazie!

~Dan

Yo Momtaz! First, an audio interface *is* a soundcard, for all intents and purposes. It replaces the functions of the soundcard for purposes of audio input. Secondly, the decision is kind of already made for you, because by and large, most laptops do not support installed soundcards that are any good, so normally, you go into them by a USB or firewire interface. In your case, it doesn't matter much which one, as the primary purpose of using firewire is that it supports more simultaneous channels. But even as a solo act, make sure you've got at least 2 channels, so you can support stereo recording, which is desirable for lots of acoustic instruments.

OK, you are concerned about sound quality. As far as the recording rig itself goes, there are 2 factors that matter, mostly. The first is the quality of the A-D conversion. The second is the quality of the preamps. Unfortunately, the sad truth is- you get what you pay for. Preamps run from $5 each (a Behringer mixer) to $5000+(Manley- ooh baby!) per channel. A-D conversion runs from about $25 (in a cheap audio interface) to about $5000 or so. Mostly, when you are talking about entry level interfaces, the only difference between $100 and $500 is the number of channels, and the I/O options. Underneath the hood, it's the same preamps and A-D conversion, just more of them, so from your point of view, that's $400 wasted.

The easiest way to bypass the preamps and convertors of a cheap interface is to go into it with a signal that is already digital, either by AES/EBU, or S/PDIF. S/PDIF can be transferred by a coaxial cable (RCA to RCA) or by optical cable (Toslink). I prefer the optical version, because it isn't subject to RFI (radio frequency interference) from radio sources or from proximity to power cables. S/PDIF only supports 2 simultaneous signals, which is fine for you. So- if you have a badass preamp and a badass A-D convertor, you can go right into the S/PDIF input on a cheap interface and get *great* sound quality. In this case, all the interface is doing is providing a S/PDIF input to your hard drive.

Then it simply becomes a matter of how much money you are willing or able to throw at it.
Starting with the Fast Track Pro is fine, because it will give you *some* kind of preamps, *some* kind of A-D conversion, and a S/PDIF input. So you are up and running. It's powered by the USB port, so it makes a good mobile rig in combination with your laptop. If you want to upgrade later, all you need is a better preamp and better A-D conversion with S/PDIF out. The Fast Track only supports coaxial S/PDIF, but that's no big deal.

Of course there are the high-end options, with preamps by Avalon, Pendulum, Chandler, Drawmer, etc., and badass A-D conversion by the likes of Lucid and Apogee, but most likely, when you reach that point, you won't be going into a Fast Track plugged into a laptop. In the intermediate price range, I like the Joemeek twinQ. It's a 2-channel preamp with an optical compressor, onboard EQ, and S/PDIF out. Is it an Avalon pre with an Apogee convertor? No. But it also doesn't cost $7000, and it is a step up from a unit like the Fast Track. So I would say- start with a well made inexpensive unit like the Fast Track, and consider an upgrade when you have a little experience, and you are looking for better pres and better conversion.

Lastly, a little reality check- The room that you are recording in, and the type and placement of mics is likely to have a greater effect on your overall sound than your recording rig, so spend a bunch of time lurking on the studio building and display forum. If you have a good performance, on a good instrument, *in a good room* with the *right* mic (not the *best* mic), in the *right* place, plugged into a cheap cassette recorder, it will sound better than a $5000 preamp and a $5000 convertor recording the fact that your room sucks, and you had the wrong mic in the wrong place, on a cheap instrument played badly. Learn to think about the signal chain from the beginning, not from the end. What you are recordiong *on* is far less important than *what you are recording*. Good Luck.-Richie

 

[Richard Monroe]

Some of the geeks here (no offense intended) can give you more info on that, because I don't use laptops or Vista. I do know that the micro-USB output on my portable recorder talks just fine to the larger USB on my PC, and came with an adapter cable. It can upload certain file formats from the PC by the same cable, so I'm guessing (that's just a guess) that it will work. As long as the interface supports Vista, I don't foresee a problem. That doesn't mean there isn't one (see above- I'm no geek). I also know that plenty of people are using these interfaces with laptops, so if there is a problem, it's been solved.-Richie

 

[gcapel]

I absolutely loath Vista. I hate my sister-in-laws pc with vista. It just has too much extra crap. You can still get xp on some machines but hell, I would buy a copy of xp to get around it if I had allready made the purchase.

Add an audio interface to the mix and I would hate to deal with it.