First mix, voice issue

[YanKleber]

OK, I just started to play with one of my tracks last night. My first 'mix' sounds like shit. Now it's time to try to turn the smelly shit into a load of crap.



My tracks have good points and bad points. The GOOD points (and it may be arguable) is that ALL the instruments are digital generated except for the guitars that are plugged directly into the SC and impulsed with cab modeling plugins. Also the drums are AD then theoretically it shouldn't have any recording issue. From my ignorant point of view 90% of such mix would be only some light EQ, level and pan of the instruments. No need of hi-pass, lo-pass, DC filtering, phase correction, etc. Please correct me if I am wrong.



Well, the real BAD point is that I have a singer that is not a singer (my wife), a recording technician that is not a technician (me) and a studio that is not a studio (my office). Also, when I recorded her voice I used a microphone Behringer C-3 that turned out to be a bit more focused on medium frequencies than I would like.

Although I have capted some aired style in the vocals (and I really wanted that) the result is not being easy to deal with.

The first problem is that there is a level difference along the recording: she starts shy and then gets a bit louder at about 1/3 of the track and still louder until the end with a total difference of almost 5dB from the beggining to the end. I noticed that the compression wasn't taking care of level the whole vocal so I pre-leveled it using the fader envelope to correct it 'manually' before the compressor. Is this correct?

The second problem (and this one seems to be the bigger to me) is regarding to the frequencies. I have mediums and highs but it definitively lacks of some lows making the voice to sound hollow. What would be your approach to help it to get fuller and warmer?

PS: Re-record the voice is NOT an option, so I really have to work with what I have.

Thanks!

 

[DM60]

I think you forgot something.

 

[BroKen_H]

First, you may be wrong. Just because you are using samples for sounds, does not mean that they don't need hi pass/lo pass. Run the wave through a spectrum analyzer and look at it. Sometimes it's surprising.
Second (first problem). If you want a consistent track to work with, you have to track a consistent track. Meaning, you may have to go back and try again. This is the problem of inexperience. When a pro does a job (any job) they usually do it right the first time. Inexperienced people (at any job) sometimes have to do things 2, 3, sometimes 10 times to get it close to the same level of competence the pro got. If you can't (or won't) re track, you will need to automate the level somehow.
Third (second problem), without hearing it will be hard to tell how to correct. It's like telling a mechanic, "I've got a miss in my motor" but not letting him see the car. Too many variables. You can add a lot of warmth through parallel compression, through EQ, with a unison effect, etc. But please post a clip.

 

[YanKleber]

Thanks, fellows!

Here it goes a 30 second sample:

 

[Mickster]

I liked this. I liked the vocal too. The only thing I might change (in that VERY short clip) is the way you either have the drums panned or phase inverted. The drums need to be more centered in my mind........or at least less panned. In a song with as few tracks as that one........the snare should not come from the sides so much. But honestly........for some reason.........I love the song and the voice. Thanks for letting me hear it.

 

[Steenamaroo]

OK, I just started to play with one of my tracks last night. My first 'mix' sounds like shit. Now it's time to try to turn the smelly shit into a load of crap.

It doesn't sound shit or crap, so you have a head start.

My tracks have good points and bad points. The GOOD points (and it may be arguable) is that ALL the instruments are digital....

Also the drums are AD then theoretically it shouldn't have any recording issue. From my ignorant point of view 90% of such mix would be only some light EQ, level and pan of the instruments. No need of hi-pass, lo-pass, DC filtering, phase correction, etc. Please correct me if I am wrong.

There shouldn't be any recording issues - correct.
Ie, someone has set up a well tuned kit in a nice room and used sensible mic choice and position and then played well.

That doesn't mean they'll sound perfect for your application, but it means they're well recorded.
THE DEFAULT PROCESSING on the other hand is a different story. Every preset on AD will be compressed to the balls.
Don't assume that it needs to be. You can turn all that stuff off in AD, or pull it back to suit. ( I can hear it on your snare)

As said in the other thread, use your ears. There's no special rule just because someone else recorded your drums for you.
It's no different to me recording drums and sending them over to you, apart from the fact that you have hit-by-hit control with AD.

If it needs eq, use eq.

The first problem is that there is a level difference along the recording: she starts shy and then gets a bit louder at about 1/3 of the track and still louder until the end with a total difference of almost 5dB from the beggining to the end.

I noticed that the compression wasn't taking care of level the whole vocal so I pre-leveled it using the fader envelope to correct it 'manually' before the compressor. Is this correct?

Yeah, that's pretty normal.

^^ This is absolutely. This is the way to do it.
In order of preference, have the singer control their recording levels at the performance stage, or use a volume automation envelope.
In reality it'll almost always be a bit of both.

(Vocal)I have mediums and highs but it definitively lacks of some lows making the voice to sound hollow. What would be your approach to help it to get fuller and warmer?

PS: Re-record the voice is NOT an option, so I really have to work with what I have.

Honestly, it sounds fine to me. If you want to make subtle eq adjustments then go for it, but there's nothing wrong here.


PS: The drums are left heavy and the snare reeks of AD over compression.
The panning might be your choice/preference, but I thought I'd point it out.

 

[YanKleber]

I confess that I am surprised, almost shocked.



My self sense of criticizing has put me in a position that I was expecting to be thrown into the flames. Now to hear that there is nothing wrong and that actually it sounds nice is too much more than I expected. It really makes me feel more confident to go ahead, make some VERY small tweaks and start working on the other tracks.



Thanks God this first album is an EP with only seven tracks. LoL!



All in all I am trying to keep it as simpler as possible. First I don't have commercial expectatives with it (it is going to be a freeware album) so if it sounds minimally comfortable for people to hear it in their stereos and cars I will be happy. Second, I am 100% stupid in mixing/mastering stuff so it's better to stop while I am still doing things right! LoL!



Now that I am less tense, let me tell you how I mixed it.

1) I used the AD drums as is, with all the original EQ, compression and effects. So basically what I did with the drums was to apply some lo-pass and hi-pass. Basically the only noticeable change was a bit more punch in the kick and more hi chime in the hihats and ride.

2) The rhythm guitar got a chorus and a slight reverb. The keyboards remained as is.

3) There is a jazzy octaved solo guitar in the intro and a flute solo that doesn't appear in the sample. They were barely touched.

4) For the vocal: started correcting some notes with Antares Auto-Tune in the graphical mode. Then automated the fader to level it along the track and finally applied an Izotope Nectar preset that I modified to my taste (remove the EQ and added a bit more reverb).

Other than that it was just level and pan. Now I feel that I have to work a bit with the bass that is sounding blurry to me. I am aware that there is some lack of clarity and definition in the final product. I am aware of course that a pro would make it sound a hundred times better. However I think that bearing in mind that it is a 100% home brew album, intends to be for free distribution and never will compete in the commercial ground "nice" and "not wrong" is good enough for my expectatives!



PS: I would like to hear more criticizes and observations though!

 

[Steenamaroo]

There's a lot to be said for keeping it simple. It seems to be serving you well.

What's your monitoring setup like? Can you trust what you're hearing?

 

[YanKleber]

There's a lot to be said for keeping it simple. It seems to be serving you well.

What's your monitoring setup like? Can you trust what you're hearing?

I don't know if I can trust in what I hear. My setup is nothing else than suffering. My 'monitors' are a pair of small loudspeakers Edifier R1000 with the back bass pot turned to the minimum. It has an awesome sound for everyday music enjoyment (with the bass pot cranked in) what makes me think that it is a crap for mixing because I have seen since always that the worse a monitor sounds the better it is for the job. Ha!

Although I have a vintage Koss HV-1 (that needs some restoration) I use a pair of cheapo headphones. But anyway, I think that the Koss is too much colored for mixing.

Oh, and here it goes a vision of my place:

I have gotten some help from forum fellows to make my environment a bit more plain and I am working on it. My goal is to try to keep my budget as low as possible, so things like buy a pro headphone or better speakers or even invest in room treatment solutions is out of my league at the moment. I think THIS is the trickiest part: make it work with what I already have!

LoL!



The case, my friend, is that this album is the realization of a dream that started to be dreamed 28 years ago when I was at my fresh 20 years old. You know, I am not a pro musician and have absolutely no expectatives on make a a musical career. I don't want to sell my album. I just want that people hear it. For free. The music is for me today a marvelous hobby and I already have put more family money on it that I should. To mix it is being extremely hard for me (it is too much more difficult than I supposed) but I HAVE to make it as I cannot pay for someone do the job for me. Believe me, if I could, I would, as I know that a pro would make it a hundred times better in 1/100 of the time. But the fact is that we have to deal with what we have, right?

 

[bouldersoundguy]

You need to raise those speakers to ear level. You're never going to hear properly with them aimed at your chest. The desk position in a corner like that is also problematic as you will get asymmetrical reflections that will throw off the stereo imaging.

 

[YanKleber]

You need to raise those speakers to ear level. You're never going to hear properly with them aimed at your chest. The desk position in a corner like that is also problematic as you will get asymmetrical reflections that will throw off the stereo imaging.

Yah, it has been told to me. While raise the speakers height is something kind of easy, I cannot do anything about the desk placement (unfortunately).

 

[Steenamaroo]

If you can get them to ear height and point them towards your nose you'll notice a massive difference already.
Use something soft if possible. Foam, heavy cloth folded, polystyrene....Anything that you think might reduce bass travelling through your desk.

If you feel they aren't really telling you the truth, you can still achieve a lot by getting to know the speakers.
Play music that you're familiar with over and over. Stay in the mixing position when you're doing this.
Pay close attention to how the bass/mids/treble sounds.

If you can imitate mixes that you know are good, you can still get pretty close.

I have a very bad environment and my hands are tied so while I am a member of the 'treat your room' brigade, I'm still something of a hypocrite.
I've found that being close to your speakers and keeping the level low is definitely a lot better than having them far away and loud.
Doing this means you hear more direct sound and less of the room reflections.

It's the same principle as singing close to a dynamic mic with low gain instead of a capacitor mic 2 feet away,
or speaking quietly in someone's ear instead of shouting across a hall.

Hope that's useful to you, but take some encouragement from the fact that your clip sounded pretty good.

 

[YanKleber]

Yo, Pete!

I am going to lift the speakers so they will be aiming to my ears intead my chest, and I have seen a tip that I should put them the most I can against the front wall. About the absorbing stuff to avoid the bass travel through my desk it really puzzled me. How should I position it? Normally I thought that I should hang a comforter behind me and position some foam and such at the wall corners. And by the way, I worked on this first mix with a low volume and I found it too much more pleasant to work this way. It's amazing how all the frequencies can be heard at a low level.

Thanks for all the encouragement, I will keep doing my homework!

 

[Steenamaroo]

Yo, Pete!

I am going to lift the speakers so they will be aiming to my ears intead my chest, and I have seen a tip that I should put them the most I can against the front wall. About the absorbing stuff to avoid the bass travel through my desk it really puzzled me. How should I position it? Normally I thought that I should hang a comforter behind me and position some foam and such at the wall corners. And by the way, I worked on this first mix with a low volume and I found it too much more pleasant to work this way. It's amazing how all the frequencies can be heard at a low level.

Thanks for all the encouragement, I will keep doing my homework!

Hey man,
I'm Paul, but don't sweat it. My signature is misleading.

Sorry, I wasn't clear about bass travel. I meant it's a good idea to raise your speakers using something absorbent.
It acts as a barrier between your speakers and the bench.

It's not essential but if you're going to being raising them up anyway, you may swell use some dense foam or whatever.

 

[YanKleber]

Yo, Paul! LoL!

Oh, OK I got it now...

By the way, I checked the YT channel. So you are not the guy at the guitar. Are you the one at the background playing with the computer? Or you are this mistery man that never show up?

PS: I made some changes in the mix and already am strating to play with the second track.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Yo, Paul! LoL!

Oh, OK I got it now...

By the way, I checked the YT channel. So you are not the guy at the guitar. Are you the one at the background playing with the computer? Or you are this mistery man that never show up?

PS: I made some changes in the mix and already am strating to play with the second track.

I am, indeed, the chap at the helm! I make things so.

The fellow playing guitar is a good friend of mine for whom I do recording and production.
Thanks for checking out the YT channel. It's still in its infancy so don't be afraid to spread the word if you like what you hear.

 

[YanKleber]

Last night I raised my monitors 15cm with two boxes below each one (fortunately I had identical four cardboard boxes) putting their tweeters in the exact level of my ears. Also I pushed the boxes against the front wall. With just these two measures I perceived a big difference!

 

[BroKen_H]

My first mix was horrid. I made the same error. When I got the monitors pointed at my face instead of my chest it was night and day!
Happy recording, my friend!

 

[YanKleber]

One thing that I am noticeing is that the mix has to sound kind of awkward in my monitors in order to sound OK at other systems, specially if I try to listen to it loud. What I mean is that if it sounds fine at mix time it will sound awfully at an stereo. I think that maybe this is a sign that my speakers are shit?



One of the things, for instances, is that the vocals sounds louder than the rest of the instruments but if I fade it down to make it 'pleasant' at mix time it will end getting too low in other systems (for instances, my wife stereo).

Nonetheless, I am starting to learn how awkward the mix has to sound in my system to make it sound fine at other equipments. It's weird, it's kind of like to learn how to hear a crap sound but knowing that it will be good at the end. It's tricky. I don't know if what I am saying make any sense though! LoL!

 

[mjbphotos]

One thing that I am noticeing is that the mix has to sound kind of awkward in my monitors in order to sound OK at other systems, specially if I try to listen to it loud. What I mean is that if it sounds fine at mix time it will sound awfully at an stereo. I think that maybe this is a sign that my speakers are shit?



One of the things, for instances, is that the vocals sounds louder than the rest of the instruments but if I fade it down to make it 'pleasant' at mix time it will end getting too low in other systems (for instances, my wife stereo).

Nonetheless, I am starting to learn how awkward the mix has to sound in my system to make it sound fine at other equipments. It's weird, it's kind of like to learn how to hear a crap sound but knowing that it will be good at the end. It's tricky. I don't know if what I am saying make any sense though! LoL!

Yeah, all that is a sign that your speakers and room are not giving you an accurate sound.